I completed my version of the twin snakes 2 days AFTER i purchased it.
YES its agreat game
Yes i like some of the added features
NO i DONT understnand why somethings were added.

Added
- Superhero Snake.
"In MGS1 PSX snake was depicted as being HUMAN just a super soldier tye human, whereas in TTS he can dodge Bullets Fight a SUPER NINJA, Backflips, Jump on top of Missiles."

- Random Backflip
"When your talkign to Liquid at the END of the game on the rail he does a RANDOM backflip, of course this looked cool and if u ask me it was just Liquids way of showing off to snake"

- Hanging ability

"Yeah in MGS2 there were LOADS of places to do this and it was normally helpful, but in TTS I only used it like ONCE as there was really NO need for it at all"

- Lockers
"IN MGS2 lockers were cool and were all over the place, but in TTS there were only like 3 lockers (Dock) and even THEN one of thme didnt open, so having the ability to put guards in locks was pretty useless overall as you had no lockers ot put them in"

- Tranquiliser gun
"NOw when i 1ST heard about this i assumed it would make SOME difference to the game, liek in MGS2 when you beat ULGA with it she falls asleep in the movie, which would have been COOL for say, Sniper wolf 1st battle"

- Super snake Neck
"In the scene where Snake is captured he gets HIT in the back of the neck with a gun by a guard, but instead of being in ANY kind of pain he just stod there for a few seconds staring about before he fell over"

- Voice actor changes
"The voice actors for a few Characters were changed, WHY? The new voice For RAVEN didnt suit him (imho) neither did the voices of Mei Ling or Naomi Hunter, even the voice for GREY FOX changed, adn that voice was GREAT, he sounded lie he was ALWAYS in pain, but in TTS he sounded like some Happy-go-lucky sword weilding maniac"

- Ninja VS Snake(after Ocelot)
"After defeating ocelot your treated to abotu 5 minutes of the ninja and Snake battling randomally, this was Unnessasary, yeah it looked cool, but Snake cant dodge Chunks of Concrete like that, and when the ninja SLISED open the CEILING it was PERFECTLY intact, just these EXTRA pieces fell from NOWHERE"

- Ninja Massacre
I have NOTHING bad to say about THIS it was so cool, espessially when he sliced that guy in half (whatever happened to the 2 halves tho???) tho the only bit i thought looked slight strange was when he lifted his foot and SLOWLY turned it around"

- NO Enclosure
"Enclosure was the theme played at most of the sad points in MGS1 PSX and MGS1 PC so WHY in the name of MGS was this song removed?It wasnt evern replaced with another sad song, I mean when Wolf dies it plays the games ENDING theme"


- Snake VS rEX
"oK THIS is the most RIDICULUS thing of all time, when REX rises up to fight snake, snake RANDOMALLY runs upto it and DIVES for its leg, i mean WTF was he trying to do? Punch it to death? it then KICKS him flying where he lands PERFECTLY, it would have been made better if he hit a wall or something as that would show the POWER of REX, but still attackign by hand? What cant he see how big the damn thing is?"

Ok thats my list of things
I cant remember anymore RIGHT NOW but as soon as i do il post them aswell, Im sure other people have noticed some of these RANDOM things aswell.

Still Wat the hell was he thinking attacking it like that?
Its METAL are you blind?

Yes you are right. They had all the same voice actors from the original(In the original most of them used different names) except for the Ninja, for some reason the script wrighters wanted Mei Ling, Naomi, Raven, and Nastasha to have American accents. Although it makes sense for some of them it really degraded their character. I agree that Snake trying to fight Rex by hand was the stupidist cutscene I have ever seen. Even stupider was when Meryl was playing with Sniper Wolf's laser beam. Is she on crack or something? and Snake just stands their looking at her ass. Also what I find stupid is that in the Ninja slaughter scene the soldier impaled on his sword is the one who says "Its a Ghost!" even though he can see him as plain as day, the rest of that scene was cool though.

My only major problem with Twin Snakes was the abundance of Matrix-style flipping and jumping for Snake. It turned the whole thing into comedy more than anything else, since watching such unnessecaryly random backflipping gave off the sense that this was just a parody of the original.

I also hated the revoiced Naomi. Never has someone sounded so bored in all their life.

That said, the reworked Psycho Mantis was almost perfect, save for the loss of Mantis' Russian twang.

I also found this very stupid. Jumping on top of the missle was the stupidest thing added....too many Matrix scences <_<

-Snake could do without SOME of the acrobatics (i.e., flipping over top of doorway to MGRex control room)
-Gray Fox's voice was better this time. Before, he sounded like a black man (not being racist here, fact is that Frank Jeager was Vietnamese, or so I heard)
-Gray Fox's confession about Naomi's parents was originally "But every time I looked at her, I saw her parents' eyes staring back at me.", but was changed to "every time I looked into her eyes, I trembled with fear." STUPID IDEA.
-Raven's 2nd battle intro (in the warehouse), he originally spoke something to the ravens, then said "Listen...they agree.", but it was changed to "They're becoming excited.", which sounds REALLY wrong.
-Explosions are coming from nowhere! When Snake was ambushed on the cargo elevator down to the underground base, you see the bullets getting closer and closer to him, then suddenly BOOM and he's leaping through the air. Why the hell couldn't he just dive out of the way?
-Intro to Raven Fight 1, snow field. Why does Snake just stand there while Raven takes aim at him with a goddamn CANNON?!
-Snake LETS LIQUID GET INTO REX! He shoots at him once when he drops into the cockpit, but then Liquid says "You missed your last chance! You'll regret that forever!". It should've been "You missed your la--"BANG....BANGBANGBANG....*dead*.
-Raven throws a crate at Snake (underground warehouse) and he just pulls a Stinger out of nowhere? Come on! I say he should've dove out of the way, and Raven starts firing after Snake as he runs around the crates, tosses a GRENADE around a corner, it gets hit by one of Raven's bullets, and through the cloud of smoke, Snake dives in and pulls his gun out.
-"It's useless, I told you. I can read your every thought!" WHAT IF HE'S BLUFFING, FOR GOD'S SAKE?! YOU DON'T KNOW! SHOOT NOW, ASK QUESTIONS LATER!
-Ocelot tells Snake to holster his gun and get ready to fight duel style. Bullsh*t! I'd have shot him anyway. Screw your duel, I've got a job to do!
-"War is meaningless....nothing comes out of war." OH PLEASE. Stop with the anti-war monologue and sit still. Play dead! You're talking to a lifelong soldier, show some respect!

So, those are my criticisms and tirades. I know I got a bit off-topic and carried away, but that'll happen when I start thinking too much about something.

No...! you didn't get out off topic ... I think what you said it's absolutely right and all the rest of you too ... I said it before and I'll say it again nothing like MGS1 it was THE coolest it was THE realist and THE original but the rest of them even if they are cool still they don't come half as the orginal was and I got to say I don't know why ... I mean it is like they are a focusing most of their energy and time in ridiculous things such as the abundance of Matrix-style flipping and jumping for Snake ... and leaving what matter most such as the things that Rivan or Grayfox say and do ... because most of us noticed these changes that happened on thier looks and lines and these are the kind of things that truly touches us and makes us love the game.

Twin snakes should purely have been a graphical update. They shouldn t have changed any of the dialogue and voices. And the cool Encolsure music which plays at the emotional scenes. IF these weren't changed it would have been perfect.

The matrix scenes didn't bother me too much, for example the battle of gray fox vs snake after the ocelot fight looks very cool. A lot of people say they didn't like snake jumping on the rocket. But personally i was bothered more by the scene in which raven throws one of those containers and snake shot it with a stinger rocket, this looked very fake to me.

Well, you have to at least give 'em credit for the Twin Snake main theme. That's one of the best MGS tunes I've ever heard.

I don't mind that they made changes, but most of the time, they made changes just for the sheer sake of it, which is what made Twin Snakes look like a spoof more than a reworking.

Another problem was lack of detail in some of the character designs. For instance in the original Psycho Mantis' glove had open fingertips on his pinky and index fingers it looke very cool and it also made the illiusion that he was like a praying mantis. Also Ninja has some characteristics missing for example the tan rists plates in between the white arm plates on his suit are missing as well as the tan plate on the back of his head. Also the vizors on his helmut are supposed to be on the two closing face plates and not the upper one. Not only that but Ocelot's face looks strange, why didn't they just use the one from MGS2?

Now that I think about even though Gray Fox's original voice kinda sounded black I think it fit the character better because he was supposed to have a deep voice. Besides he put more character into the guy.

I would've preferred the new Ninja voice had he put more feeling into the delivery. The original may not have been fitting, but damn if he didn't put in one heck of a performance.

I dont get why people dont like it, do you seriously beleive that if they could, the original MGS wouldnt have all the bullet time/dodging/flipping?

The only part of TTS that i think is Over the Top is where Snake shoots the HIND with a missile.

Another thing you say Snake is a human super-soldier? Super-Soldiers arent human, Snake isnt human, he is a clone

How much bullet time/dodging/flipping is in Sons Of Liberty or Snake Eater? Not a lot.

I can understand this, some secens are 'Hollywood-ised', but about the backflips, I can backflip, its nothing special, but the Liquid thing, the kinda hand spin to sudden huge leap and flip, kinda OTT, and when he front flips without jumping, landing exactyl on the rail edge, same for that.

Hanging is very useful, it can be used in almost all, if not all the maps, for guard evasion, and accessing secret areas for some parts.

Same for lockers and with hanging, lockers contain ammo and rations which can be crucial for Extreme difficulty. As well as guard disposal.

Yeah, good point, but the tranq was a great addition, with the low kill ranks etc.

Yeah, but the shot to the back of the neck gives a more dizzying effect than pain, and Snake doesn't just standing there, he dizzily hobbled aroudn, took a few steps forward the fainted.

I don't think Naomi's or Mei Ling's changed, but I prefer Gray Fox's new voice, maybe cause I can't really rememebr the old one, but yeh, Raven's was not as good.

The fight scene was a good addition, it played with the story a lot better, and the ceiling dodge was crazy lol, but yeh, the extra debris falling is understandable, Fox didn't cut all the way through the ceiling, because when you go up a floor there are no holes in the floor, so he must have only cut part of the ceiling out, gravity causing it to drop, and bits to crumble and fall after it.

Yeh, amazing scene, the arm seemed to disappear yeah, but maybe he squashed that too, and when the leg moved across, seemed weird, must have really strong joints to scrape through reinforced steel.

Hmm, maybe they wanted a change, I dunno which song enclosure was, but I know the into music stayed the same. And I miss the little tune played when the Konami logo appears.

Yeh diving at the leg was strange, maybe it was blind rage, a rare occurence for Snake, or maybe he was trying to get at a certain part of Rex, like a joint, or cable. But yeh, the landing perfectly, thats Snake quick reactions and good acrobatics, he is super-human after all, kinda. And the leg only moved a small amount. And I don't think he was trying to punch it, maybe he was testing Liquid's skill of piloting it, and the movements of Rex before he fought it, makes sense.


But yeah some changes were good, others were bad.

You can't really complain about the voice actors guys. "They changed it!" may not be the case. Maybe some of the voice actors didn't come back for personal reasons.

And let's also give it up to David Hayter, the man has dedication to the Metal Gear series... he gave up half of his own paycheck to bring back most of the cast from the original Metal Gear. True stuff, people.

Well for the person above me. Even the people that came back, the voice acting from them was a big disapointment. They didn't put much effort into the game and sounded dull.
And about people not coming back, the person that did the orginal Gray Fox came back, but he only did the DARPA chief and not Gray Fox this time around...

Anyway, to sum up this whole topic.

The unnessasary changes they made to this game was everything but the updated graphics.

I don't think that's quite fair. As I said, the Mantis scene was sheer perfection this time around, as well as a few other elements. The problem was that most of the changes were made just for the sheer hell of it and not to make any improvements, which was the wrong way to approach it.

IDk but i only seen the cutscenes via You tube, and the biggest critisizm i have are the end and Gray Fox's voice. from what i;ve seen you don't get the chance to shoot at Liquid which brought an element of you feeling so close to escaping and this mad man still trying to end your life. in the orginal snake and meryl were trapped under a toppled jeep as liquids walks up with him famas which made the suspense higher, in TTS snake and him stand there face to face, foxdie hits liquid he falls thaen gets back up and falls again, i literally laughed at that ending, not serious at all. and i like GRay fox's voice in the orginal it felt like he was indeed pain nd that's what made me like the character so much. the new one was good but i still prefer the orginal. i can't wait till sony starts selling the DLable PS1 game for PSP i'll surely DL the orginal.

In my opinion, TTS was a great remake of MGS1. the gameplay was great, sure, some things like the hanging mode were unnecassary but they put them in to give you the choice of using them and to bring it up to date with MGS2.

I agree that some of the things that Snake did were a little too matrixy, most stupidly the jumping on top of a missile, but when they created TTS they wanted to show that Snake is a great soldier and to emphasize that if he is the inferior clone, then what is Liquid capable of.

And the thing about Snake jumping at REX is stupid but i think Snake was trying to get close so that he could climb up it to Liquid, and if he is that close, i don't think REX would be able to squish him.

Yeah, but what can he hang on too? We don't know. Maybe Hideo was just trying to show us that Snake is not afraid and like you said, the dominant genes. The thing that I didn't like in the game was that, Meryl takes the famas away from snake like nothing. She freaking hesitates to shoot the genome soldiers. How in the how can she take the famas away from snake but can't shoot the enemy. Also in the scene when Meryl get's shot by Sniper Wolf. I don't think there was anything that Snake could've done. Meryl probably knew that she was gonna get shot and snake knew right away too. It was a matter of time that someone was going down, and it was Meryl.

I thought the fight with Grey Fox after you beat Ocelot was ridiculous, I mean being able to kick a chunk of concrete at Snake?

I don't think they would have had all the matrix stuff on PS1 even if it was possible, they had a different cut scene director for TTS, hence the difference in style

I didn't like that fight with Cyborg Ninja either. I think that was just too much. Especially when snake flips and jumbs from the missle. Why in the hell did they messed it up like that.

they probably thought people would like it more, but it's a reality game, not a Matrix movie

The game is crap nothing but graphics and gameplay should have been uprgraded. If hanging was supposedly useless they just should have made more ledges to hang off, and as for lockers they should have just added more ffs. And jumping on a missile the game is crapity crap crap crap, anything that goes toooooooo far of the realistic scale makes it crap. Like If there really was a ninja with and exoskeleton he would be able to flip around and stuff, but snake is a freakin human being, a clone is still a man.

I agree that it was nice to Put soem new moves to keep it up to date with MGS2, but there wasnt really anywhere to actually USE certain moves.
Ie: Lockers, there are like 10 in the ENTIRE game, and there only in the friggin areaa WHERE THERE arnt really any guards.

Snake never KNEW he was inferior at that point (he never does find out) so he isnt trying to PROVE he is superior becuase he already Believes that he is.

I agree that MOST of the changes int his game were made for the sheer HECK of it, and many of them didnt add playability or even explain anything more of the story.
Though I tihnk there may ahve been a Patriots mention at some Point, I cant remember,

snake did that to test if REX was operational or not but how can he jump so high :fox:

Somebody else said that before, about him kicking it and that being his way to 'test' if its operational. I still don't understand what you people mean by that though. Running up and kicking something test to see if it works?? And if it was working he ran the risk of getting stomped on the second he ran up to it. Also how does kicking it 'test' anything? If it wasn't working then what was it going to do? Fall over? And besides he knew it was working...it had just moved 30 seconds before.

that's why he jumped and he wanted to test if liquid could see from inside REX to attack him

Why, oh why did they change Naomi's voice?

She's supposed to be British!!

lol, that sucks the arse..

Also, the music in Twin Snakes SUCKS.

I mean, the original music in Metal Gear Solid wasn't really good, but The Twin Snakes just has like these crappy synthesized drums and boring music.

if you guys ever listened to any of Hideo Kojimas pre MGS3 interviews youd know he watches alot of movies and tries to imitate them. theres tons of old movie references and throwbacks in mgs2 and 3. who can blame him for being inspired by the matrix, which WAS an awesome movie? the only problem i had with twin snakes is that it was on the gamecube.

@NickRocks, reported for reviving a topic 16 days old.

Uh, please follow the rules around here. No reviving really old, geriatric topics. Because no one likes old things.

And the Matrix series is horrendously evil.

@Penguin of Doom: Did you know that we actualy have 1 month rule before topic gets too old to revive? Guess not.
Carry on with the topic then.

I haven't played MGS:TTS, so I can't judge the whole thing; but from what I have heard:

About superhero snake, i liked the backflips and matrix style dodging not bad.
Hanging and lockers: it shows that snake is capable of doing stuff like that, you don't always need to have to do it.
Voice actors change: i didn't like that change
Ninja vs. Snake: it was cool, why can't snake dodge chunks of concrete??!! Okay, the fight was a bit stretched but still it was fun to watch

If you've seen the scene, you'd understand.

I personally totally agree with squall on this one.
Twin Snakes was a failed copy and should never be spoken of again.

It, Never, Happened!

Funny thing is, when I first saw trailer I thought, OMFG this is gonna ROCK!
I never actualy played the game cause I don't own Gamecube, but i saw the gameplay and i have all cutscenes on my computer... It was TOTAL FAILURE!