Does anyone else think that TTS sucked big huge monkey balls? I thought the game was way to easy even on extreme and they took out alot of the classic lines in the first game and those new cutscenes were just too much, I think Konami made a mistake letting SK remake a classic there should of made it themeselves and for the PS2.

No, while it certainly was no MGS2, it is still MGS.

Thats because the level design didn't change, it was still a 5th Gen game, with 6th Gen add ons.

They replaced at best a page of dialog and with MGS a page isn't anything and the lines that were replaced were stale and hackneyed.

By then Konami had lost MGS, it was Kojima Productions who took the decision, they didn't remake it themselves because they were working on MGS3, which would you rather have? A remake of MGS? or MGS3?

They replaced a bit of dialogue with Fox and Snake, at the end with REX.

Yet we commonly refer to the cut/replaced content as "some dialogue" or "a few lines"--the most powerful and memorable scenes are replicated in excellent detail, namely "You took everything from me before I was even born!" (and "Snake? SNAAAAAAAAAKE!") The loss of Mei Ling's accent was a heartfelt one, but really, who could listen to her talk in the original without bursting out laughing, even in the midst of a dawning international nuclear nightmare?

No one can deny that there were some small losses, but the detail we gained more than makes up for that. Surely I wasn't the only one thankful to see poorly synchronized lip motions in place of the parkinson's-disease-head-wobbling during dialogue? The only thing that I honestly found distasteful during Twin Snakes was those damned Mario and Yoshi figurines they kept zooming in on in Otacon's office. That was a pretty grievous disintegration of the fourth wall in my opinion, but at least stomachable given the modernization granted to the game as a whole that made it feel less like a trip down memory lane than a relevant experience for current society. Perhaps some MGS fans were looking for nostalgia--that would have been a bit boring for my tastes, so I welcome the unnecessary yet well-handled remake. Although I respect those who don't, and I understand why.

Twin Snakes was not intended to be marketed to Metal Gear veterans. Who honestly played Sons of Liberty and threw the control up in a moment of unbridled bliss as they declared unto the heavens, "DEAR SWEET JOY OF RAIL-GRIPPING, HOW COULD I HAVE SURVIVED WITHOUT YOU DURING SHADOW MOSES?!?" No one gives a fart about the damned grip gauge. It could only possibly serve as a marketable feature for the benefit of Metal Gear newcomers. In other words, pimply-faced 17-year-olds looking at a copy of Splinter Cell 3 and Twin Snakes on the game store wall.

I'll make no claims that TTS was a glorious remake that strengthened the background of the entire Metal Gear saga and reminded us all of why this was one of the greatest and most revolutionary video games of our times. Because it wasn't. However, it was a very effective tool for bringing a new generation into the Metal Gear community. I, for one, see this as a great accomplishment. Ask yourself--do you really want to be the only person old enough in your gaming community to have played MGS back in the roarin' 90s, and thus the only one with any hope of understanding Guns of the Patriots? No. I grew up with the original Metal Gear, sure, but I don't want it to become some archaic historical artifact. I'm willing to see some sacrifices made to produce a remake that will graduate a new generation of Metal Gear fans, for the sake of passing on the essence of the productions on further.

In closing, I really can't honestly compare MGS1 and TTS. They're two completely different games, serving two completely different purposes. One was a visionary, revolutionary gaming experience that helped define a still-evolving genre, and one was a beacon to build on that foundation for the new age. Simple as that. And, in my opinion, admirable.

You seem to be totally discarding the fact that what you so praised is in fact called being a sell-out, which is kind of the lowest things to do, sell out your mainstream fans for money.The second thing you totally missed is

You find it annoying, however a heavy playstation supporter, like myself, finds this to be a heavy swing to the nut-sack. You see, in the 5th generation consoles, everyone had a mascot, nintendo had mario, sega had sonic, and sony had... Snake, so by putting them there, is not just an insult, it's saying 'aha, we have your mascot, bitches!'

yeah, I agree, like ninja at the end... oh no, wait they killed that by taking out the emotive music, and getting a shit, non south african (thus killing authenticity) VA

Small loses? oh yeah, like the knives which they imbedded into mgs1 players backs, that must have been a small loss

so? They added a new option for the character as part of there survival, how is that to bring in new fans? 'oh look at this game, it's the best game in the world' 'but mgs2 has a grip gauge' 'oh, really? lets buy that then.'
I don't think so

Yes, because all of the people ho played the original are really old. Guess what dear, i'm 17. Now I don't know about you, but I don't class that as old, and I played the original, less than a year after it came out

No, they both serve the purpose: make money. However, one was an 'honourable' way, the other was selling out to make money.

yeah, if it's admirable to sell out.



p.s. the VA's were shit

I agree with Rose on some points, TTS was i good way to get newcommers into the series i guess and thats good for Konami but I for one don't give a shit about newcommers, i started the MGS series on..........MGS, the original, the Mecca of steal action games and TTS to me was a big dissapointment.

TTS was a good game i guess, it was fun to use to the MGS2 engine with the original but the feel, the glory of it was ruined for hardcore MGS fans like myself. The Yoshi and Mario figures were probobly just a little easter egg, nintendo puts them somewhere in most of their games for some reason but to put them in MGS was indeed "A heavy swing to the nut-sack"

I haven't played TTS in over a year 1 because i have 3 copies of the original and its 10x better and in my opinion the best video game ever, and 2 because the power cable for my gamecube is missing :angry:

All in all i dont know if anyone can remake the classic MGS and still have it be as good as the original and maybe thats the way it should be.

Yeah same here, I was 8 when I first played MGS back in 1998 (demo) and 9 (full game released in 1999 in Europe) when I finished the game (within a week of owning it on launch day I'm proud to say), I'm 17 now, not exactly an old fogie.

^^ Likewise

Your counterpoints are decently thought out and presented in a grammatically correct fashion, Helikaon. ^_^ Therefore, I salute your argument, even if I don't concede to it.

I guess an issue we could be looking at here from different perspectives is that of attachment. Of course I'm a fan of the original, but I think it's rather fascinating to see an alternative take on it. On the other hand, much of the dissent over TTS comes from emotional interpretations that the game is changing, for the worse, a historical part of our memories. It's only because we can compare the Twin Snakes VAs to the originals that we think they suck. If the same voicework had been done in '98, none of us would be complaining. In fact, somewhere in a parallel universe, someone is bitching about how terrible David Hayter's voice is in TTS compared to the original Solid Snake VA Sean Connery.

Ultimately, when we become a fan of something, that's a gesture of acceptance of the subject over which we're fawning as a part of our lives. We feel it expresses a specific part of our personality. That's why when someone alters it, whether for good or bad, we immediately feel violated and inclined against the alteration. The only person who can make an unbiased judgment about a remake is one who was not a fan of the original prior to the remake. It's just like how people feel about the Death Star explosion in the Special Edition of A New Hope--there is no way to logically argue that the original's explosion looked better, but we reject it because it's not our explosion, that we remember. People react in the same manner as if they were to come home and suddenly find their furniture rearraged; whether the new arrangement is better or worse, they're gon' be pissed.

I can't say whether that point of view is justified or not, that's not my place. I can say that it's a perfectly understandable one.

Also, as to the age comments... I assure you that you kind folks are the exception, not the rule. Given MGS's thematic elements, I am as certain as I can be without demographical proof that the majority of MGS players were at least 12-14 when they played the first game, and well over 21 now. I'll be very interested if anyone can provide reasonable evidence that in 1998, there were more parents than not that would buy a video game full of guns, blood, and nuclear weapons for their 8-year-old children.

As for those of you who were those lucky 8-year-old bastards, rock on! ;)

Nice way of ignoring my comments there

What? No, it's because they changed things that never needed changing, because they created a hollywood-ised version (as coined by shyne bryght)

No.

No, i'm not really bothered if someone alters it, it's when it's done badly and decivingly, is when I get pissed

How can you say that? It has nothing to do with familiarity of the brand, it's the fact that it was not as good as the original, as shown by the fact that twin snakes got (very) slightly worse ratings than the original twin snakes avarages 8.5, orginal around 9-10.

I'm not the avid star wars fan you might be, but I don't recall anyone caring that much that it was re-created

That's because someone's been in there house, not because the furniture's different, bad comparation

I don't call 20-22 being far over 21, in fact the earlier is under 21, so that's not an accurate thing to say. Another thing, not many parents take special detail to what they are buying there kids, I highly doubt my mother knows, or cares that a threat of nuclear holocaust is being featured in Metal gear solid.

Anything else?

But... It wasn't. ;_; I said that out of respect. It was meant as a civilized agreement to disagree as friends. Would you honestly have a more prestigious opinion of me if I chucked all my logic and personal beliefs out the window just because someone told me "you're wrong?" That wasn't a bypass of your comments, it was a complement. It was saying, "Hey, personally that's not how I see it, but I commend you for having actual rationale behind your beliefs instead of just knee-jerk criticism." It was a complement damn it! /cry

That, in and of itself, is a biased opinion. Mine is a biased opinion, too. I say Mei Ling's voice DID need to be changed. I say next-gen graphics DID need to be installed. You say Fox's voice did NOT need to be changed. You say the knives did NOT need to be removed. There is no undeniable authority on what "needed" to be changed.

...?

Name one remake you fell in love with the instant you saw it. What I'm saying here is "done badly" is a very relative term. Obviously you think it was done badly, obviously I don't. Neither of us is right or wrong.

Because, that is precisely my point. Twin Snakes is not being judged on its quality as a standalone game. It's being judged on how well it stacks up to the original.

As much as I try to avoid the terms "right" and "wrong" when it comes to people's opinions...that is wrong. Google can show you hundreds of reviews wherein old Star Wars fans shat cows over the Special Edition, specifically stating that they were upset over the "improved" starfighter sequences, CGI Jabba the Hutt, and the previously cited Death Star explosion.

Okay, let's say you're married and you come home to find out your wife has completely rearranged your DVD collection because she thinks it's "better" this way. Are you pissed because your wife's been in your house, or because she changed your stuff? (Well, depending on how long you've been married, maybe you are pissed she's in your house. XD)

Which is why I made that little poll, and why I may indeed be mistaken. Bravo old chap! Perhaps I was too narrow in my viewpoint here. For one, I was assuming an American scale and ignoring the European fanbase. Traditionally, the States have been the breeding ground for "helicopter moms" that hover over their children and inspect everything they do like boobed gestapo.

The results of the poll, as I alluded to in the poll itself, can't be taken as a serious demographical representation. "The amount of MGS fans who frequent this site and happen to read this board" does not constitute an adequate sample. So whether the polls favor my assumption or yours, neither of us has any grounds to say "Toldja so!" That being said, I got served at the polls. ^_^ Glad to see it--it's good to be reminded that I'm never a know-it-all.

Taquitos please. ^.^


EDIT: Ha ha ha, I am such a loser! I just now got it, I said Helikaon instead of Kkarbo! XD Man I suck, sorry for the mixup. I swear I meant to say your name, I just got confused looking at the posts. /noob

I noticed you said you got confused, so I apologise, I thought you were ignoring me because of the way I posted.

Although I guees that's true, it seems that most people would agree with my wiew that it did not need to be changed, and that it was done quite distastefully.

Even in a parallel universe, I find it hard to believe that sean connery would make a good solid snake, although this parallel universe is different from ours, so you can't really make judgment on whether sean connery would fit the role, because it isn't in our world, but I digress, it's not in a parellel universe, and the existance of parallel universes isn't something to be discussed here

hmmm, well not really, there's a few games i'd love to see a remake of, but if they were done to what I thought was a lower quality than the original, I would reject it, so that doesn't really prove any of our points, so yes, neither of us is right or wrong, it's down to personal preferences. Some people might lik th twin snakes more than mgs1.

Ok, I admit the game is sucsessful, and stand alone, it could be seen as quite good, but people who know the series, starting from mg1, will think that the game is quite bad compared to mgs1

Ok, a better example, yes, i'd be more pissed the DVD collection wasc re-arranged, but if she'd got lower quality copies, and threw away my originals, i'd be more pissed than if she moved them, what would anger me more would be if she got my star trek DVDs and switched them withs star wars (I don't actually own star trek DVDs, that's just for th purpose of the argument, if you can understand what I mean)

Like I said, i'm not the greatest star wars fan, i've watched them all, but am quite detached from them, so I apoligise.

Is seems you were.

Bad thing to do, i'll take this quote about my home country, the UK.

Europe is a major influence in games sales, but that's not the point, english mothers don't seem to be the 'gestapo with boobs' americans have, so...

It still has to be taken in account, but i'm not going to brag, because it is a miniscule aount compared to all the mgs fans.

We call tthem doritos here, but i'm all out, sorry

Doritos will suffice. I'll trade our boobed gestapo mothers for your doritos.

I like it. I don't give a shit about the 'glory of the story' - that was already lost by the 20th time I played through it on the PlayStation, when it just came down to replaying it to see how fast I could do it. For me, TTS is just playing a really awesome old game again without having to deal with the shitty graphics, and it's fun to be able to play around with MGS2 features a bit more, like holding up guards and taking their dogtags (which is, IMO, the best feature that's ever been introduced to the MGS series).

It doesn't matter if you played the original or not or how old you were if you did (I played it in 2000, when I was about 10, for the record), you should just be able to take it at face value - it's a solid remake, pretty much the same exact thing. It's Metal Gear Solid. It's fun. People overanalyze shit too much.

The Twin Snakes was an awesome game. OK, the graphics DID look a bit wierd, but other than that, it's a good game. Great re-make of a great game.

well i did enjoy playing TTS, i mean it breathed new life into the old mgs, in all honesty it made me realise how much i prefer the old version. for me arguments for both sides are valid... i think the game was to "westernised" for want of a better word. the action sequences made me cringe(snake backflipping onto a missile whilst holding a stinger missile launcher then firing at a Hind-D is the part that stiks out in my mind <_< or where he backflips like 10 foot in the air dodging ocelots bullet. i could go on and on) but these overly exagertated scenes are a good thing in some respects because like rose said it brings mgs to new audiences. a prime example is one of my close friends... he asked me why im so into metal gear and my answer was "see for yourself" i gave him my copy of TTS to play and now he loves it hes hooked. but as a stand alone game, yes i like it, but as a remake m not that keen (i dont hate it tho) and someone said to name a good remake... resident evil1 for the gamecube was fucking incredible

i got this game 4 days ago,already gone through it 3-4 times on hard, the cutscenes were absolute bullshit and the gameplay was the same as the original apart from the graphics i wished they would of made it more fun like SoL and substance and made it for the ps2. :blink:

I myself am 15 years old and have grown up on the Metal Gear Solid series. Cant remember how old I was when it first came out, but boy was my mom pissed to see that big fat M on the game case hidden in my closet.

What im trying to say is, even some of us young people grew up on it, and I seriously doubt it will become a historical artifact.

I enjoyed TTS very much, with the exception of Nintendo's horrible escuse for a controller and their constant attempts to force nintendo upon the players. (When Mantis said 'I see that you like nintendo games' I couldn't help but yell 'NO I DON'T!' at the screen)

MGS is in my opinion the best game series ever made, and will live on for generations to come.