:angry: Im starting off by saying, im quite pissed off about how people keep saying how MGS2 was crap due to playing as Raiden the whole time
(Which I Loved)
and now all I hear is.

Wow...raiden is a ninja now...I love him :wub:

<_<

well basically, Raiden looks too feminine is the reason nobody liked him in Mgs2
but now in Mgs4, hes a Badass Ninja Cyborg and everyone likes him

and I really hope we get to play as him again, finish off his battle with VaMp, learn more about his past, and learn about the present and why he is a cyborg, will he die, will he live.?

to be honest, hes just an interesting character to learn about, everyone knows everything about snake now. and introducing a new character is quite refreshing
and, whats happened in 5 years to make him go from a FoxHound rookie to a cyborg killing machine.

I would just like to know what people think about raiden, and No Raiden bashing, because this topic is about how Raiden bashers are silly and pointless

So. dont be silly and pointless, just give me some of your ideas and what u reckon will become and what you would like to see of raiden in mgs4!


see you all there people! 12th June! OOOOOOOOF! ^_^

I know exactly what you're saying and I agree completely.

I was kinda down that I didn't get to play as Snake, but Raiden was still fun. It was cool to view Snake in the eyes of another character.

But yeah, it is annoying to se how many Raiden fanboys used to hate him in MGS2. Not all people are like that though. I have always liked Raiden. Snake is still at the top of my list, but Raiden comes right behind him.

On the other hand, I still see ninja Raiden being flamed by people all the time on here.

Don't remember who said it, but I remember someone saying that his Shoes are high heels. LAWL :P


I digress...... I would like to see Raiden die. Honestly, there's nothing else for him to do. I see it kinda like grey fox, where he doesn't kill liquid, but he makes it possible for Snake to kill him.

a fitting end.

Firstly, you're about 6 years too late to jump on the "I liked Raiden in MGS 2!!!" bandwagon. That motherfucker has passed on.

Yeah, that's kind of Kojima's idea.

No. I didn't like Raiden because he wasn't Snake. If Raiden were the main character in MGS 4 even with the cyborg ninja get up; I'd still despise him.

All those can be done from Snakes POV in cutscene far better than than from Raiden's.

O RLY?

There's a hell of a lot of stuff about Snake that I don't know and I consider myself an "MGS expert". For example why did Snake and Meryl break up? Why didn't Snake take a shot at Vamp despite being directly behind him? [spoiler]Why has Snake decided to salute Big Boss' grave, despite hating him?[/b] What's with the injections?

There are a lot of things we still don't know about Snake.

Not when it was supposed to be Snake's game. Not when for years beforehand we are shown Snake and only Snake.

He was never in FOXHOUND, nor was he anything like a rookie. He had far more practical experience than Snake (potentially, considering we don't know when Snake joined the military, another question unanswered).

People don't like Raiden because he simply isn't Snake. Snake is the main character of the game, is much wiser, stronger and knows way better his job than Raiden.
If it wasn't for Snake I truly believe that Raiden would be dead in MGS2.

The other thing you mentioned about Raiden being a ninja and now everybody loves him... Its completely wrong. I didn't like Raiden and I still don't. I may find him a little bit cooler than before but my feelings are the same. The only people who say that like Raiden as he is now are the same people they liked him in MGS2 but they didn't confess it in order not to be apart of the mass.

I doubt it. I would say that Snake has been a warrior all his life. I just can't see him doing anything else.

On topic, like Helikaon said, you are too late. How do we know YOU never jumped on the bandwagon when you say him as a ninja?

@MGS.: Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's no proof that Snake's stronger than Raiden. They never fought each other.

I like Raiden. I never had a problem with him even when I first played MGS2. Sure, I was surprised -- but only for like a moment. Then I continued playing.

Don't get me wrong; I love Snake, but I think it's just purely fanboyish to put him above all elements of MGS for the sole purpose of him being Snake. I mean, there were times when Snake appeared utterly clueless and vulnerable; and to me, that's good, because it shows us that Snake is human and needs his share of help sometimes.

So, if you're saying that Raiden would've probably been dead if it weren't for Snake, then I guess it's safe to say that Snake would've been dead if it weren't for Gray Fox, Otacon, FOXDIE, etc.

This means that Snake himself was also a teenager during this time. He was in the Green Berets, so his military career would be pretty fresh. Raiden was a child soldier though, not a teenager. So saying that Raiden has had more practical experience isn't that far-fetched.

I aint really got a problem with raiden to be honest i think he's pretty good like.

(Does anyone else think this is the wrong section for this ?)


But yeah, love him or hate him, Raiden is a big part of the MGS series now. He's his own character, his own history, his own feelings, his own actions.

I try my best to think of him as a completely separate entity than Snake in MGS2, but it's hard when you've been wanting to play as Snake.

I try to pick out the things I like about Raiden, he was a good character and all, but Rose just got a tad bit annoying. It wasn't so much him, Raiden was pretty badass despite his appearance.

I'm sure that in MGS4 he'll be kicking plenty of ass.

Big Boss? ouch, can anyyone say spoier tag please!

[QUOTE][QUOTE=MGS.,Apr 25 2008, 05:18 PM] People don't like Raiden because he simply isn't Snake. Snake is the main character of the game, is much wiser, stronger and knows way better his job than Raiden.
If it wasn't for Snake I truly believe that Raiden would be dead in MGS2.[/QUOTE]

i completly agree with that
Ive got nothing against raiden he is a cool character but snake is just soo much cooler
and i think mgs2 sud have been played as snake for the majority of it. but raiden does rule and i hope we get to play as him in mgs4 (4 a little bit)

i dont know why that quote didnt work properly ^^^
i did the same as i usually do.... owell as long as u can all understand what im saying :D

Man do not double post! It's against the rules! Use the edit button.

Your mistake was that you used "[QUOTE]" two times in the beginning.

We are going to play in MGS4 only as Snake. Kojima confirmed that.

Yeah, MGS4 will be played as Solid Snake. Besides, I have no desire to play as Raiden just because he has the exoskeleton. I would like to see Raiden's characetr from a different POV, similar to Snake in MGS2.

@YoungSnake

But Solid Snake is a legendary soldier. In my opinion, he has had much more battle experience than Raiden.

Raiden is awesome. I was one of the people who stood by Raiden when everyone said he's gay. Now that he's a ninja he rocks and everyone thinks that too. And the thing about Raiden past I coudn't agree more:)

i wouldn't mind if it's like MGS2 only then play with solid snake for the biggest part and play as raiden for a short time as to mgs2 where its the other way around.

and lol mgs 2 was the first mgs i played so i first thought raiden was the main character of the series untill i played mgs3 then 1 and then metal gear 1 & 2
so i kinda have nothing against raiden, he's not good but he aint bad either.

well it's not gonna happen,it's been confirmed we only play as snake

I like raiden he's a cool guy and i think raiden and snake are great team :thumb:

You don't become a legend through experience, but through achievements. Raiden may have more potential battle experience than Snake, but Snake has accomplished a lot more than Raiden.

Raiden has less battle experience. I also remember you saying somewhere that he has less battle experience, YS.

He has more potential battle experience, pay some attention. He's gone through several VR Missions, many of these are simulations of missions Snake has encountered. These don't count for real battle experience, thus his experience here is potential. In addition, his experience from the days as a child soldier.

A link to my statement would also be good.

i like how raiden could do those flips, they were cool

http://mgsforums.com/index.php?showtopic=22334

My old statement also says that Raiden has spent more time in VR, and Snake's missions were harder because he has more real battle experience.

Raiden has, from what we know, gone through a lot more missions in VR than Snake, that's why it's safe to say he has more battle experience, both real and simulated.

Solid Snake has gone through more VR Missions, too. He just thinks that they don't truly show the horrors of battle. But he thinks that it is good for physical training, just not mental.

Actually, no. VR wasn't introduced until MGS1, and Snake hasn't been confirmed to have completed any missions before that. We're only told that he simulates a few VR modes before the start of each game. Raiden, on the other hand, completed over 300 missions in VR before the Big Shell. So, from what we know, Raiden has more VR experience.

It's important to note though, that regardless of how much extensive VR training Raiden has had, he might also have superior soldier genes, shown from his days as a child soldier. But as we're shown in MGS2, he still acts like a rookie, so genes only show potential.

Snake doesn't say how many VR Missions he has completed. And he also has superior soldier genes. He has more battle experience in reality and virtual reality.

Like I said, we're only told that he simulates a few VR missions before the start of each game.

Don't even go there man.

If that's what you wish to believe, may your ignorance be blessed with many more years to come.

Snake definitely has more real battle experience than Raiden but you have to admit that in case of the VR Missions Raiden is way ahead than Snake.

Do you remember what Snake says about the VR Missions in MGS2 while he is talking with Raiden? He abjured the way which Raiden passed his battle/field battle tests which were particularly based on VR Missions. He definately shows his discouragement about the whole idea.
So it's not possible of Snake having more VR Missions than Raiden especially when he doesn't approve these methods.
He "may" have passed a few before each mission he takes on but that's it.

-Raiden was a child soldier yes, but didn't he got brainwashed or something? so that would he lost that experience
- he did VR but as solid snake also says: "VR doesn't simulate pain or emotion during battle" and that is considered experience.

so Raiden is still sort of a rookie...period. (maybe not in mgs4 though, i wonder what happenend in those 5 years)

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Raiden surpassed Rookie after Big Shell. I'm pretty sure that when you move through Arsenal Gear and kill Solidus that you are higher than a Rookie in strength.

Sure both of them has experience in battle, but it is obvious Snake has had more "real" battle experience. Raiden's VR only souped up his battling skills, not his emotional skills or pain endurance.

Raiden is probably right next to Snake's level by the end of MGS2. By MGS4, I think it is safe to say that their skills are tied.

By the end of MGS2, I think that Raiden finally understands battle. Which will be deception, giant death machines, and boss fights.


Raiden, is such an awesome character but is discouraged because some people think he is some sort of joke or punishment.

Seriously, how lame would MGS be if the game continued to have Snake the only good guy who has superior skills and fights enemy forces?

Raiden being feminine is just stupidity. His face doesn't look that girly and having long blond hair isn't the least bit feminine. I mean I have long blond hair and am mistaken for a girl at school sometimes but I still have a girlfriend and am pretty popular at school...

:lol:
If you are mistaken for a girl, then you obviously look feminine.
Raiden was mistaken for a girl by the president, therefore looks feminine.

I liked raiden, i was shocked about not playing mgs2 as snake first, but after awhile i grew liking that character. Propably because i can relate to him, actually more than to snake. Still i prefer Snake, his someway more charismatic and stronger person(mentally) than raiden.

What i dont like too much is actually raiden beeing ninja in this game. It was logical solution from kojima and it doesnt bother me that much but it couldve been more of a suprise who the new ninja is.

:unsure: I guess you're right about that...

But still! It isn't a good reason why you should dis' Raiden. Sure this is a sneaking/war game but Raiden is like a modern new generation war guy kind of guy.

u were suppsoed to play mgs2 for the gameply over story. Those who didint like raiden or were bothered to play as him throughout the game are idiots!!

if it wasnt for ''grey fox''...snake would be a carcass

in MGS2 snake only saved raiden's life once...when they 1st encountered vamp
{twice if you wanna include the lil trick snake pulled on raiden in arsenal with olga}

other than that...raiden pretty much held his own.


raiden vs fortune
{regardless of her bullet deflection ability he survived the battle and shot vamp down on his way out}


raiden vs a damn HARRIER!!!
{shot it down and knocked out solidus's eye in the process}

raiden vs vamp 1
{outsmarted and outfought him}

raiden vs vamp 2
{sent him flying into the water after sniping him}

raiden vs 20 metal gears
{he left about 3 of them still standing but held his own}

raiden vs solidus snake
{he had 1 sword and solidus had 2 and he still took him out}


solid snake vs fortune
{snake was owned and then handcuffed}


solid snake vs vamp
{vamp would ''easily'' use his agility and speed to his advantage and have a field day with him}

solid snake vs solidus snake
{too much speed and strength for snake and the bullets didnt do him any good obviously}


you ever notice how snake ''struggled'' with vamp/fortune and solidus ?
while raiden got the upper hand on every last one of them.


[ps]
the same guy that everyone seems to bash and discredit just so happens to be
snake's biggest gun right now...so who is really protecting who ??

New here, great site for all mgs trivia leading up to mgs4

back on topic though

@ raiden_x

Snake vs vamp, snake did actually get beat (technically) by vamp when they met just before snake revealed he was Pliskin, raiden saved him. But you could also argue that snake saved raiden in the same scene (when vamp was going in slow mo behind raiden, snake burst in and he disappeared).

I think maybe that the differences between Raiden and Snake have something to do with S3. The original explanation of S3 "solid snake simulation", (although later revoked by GW in favour of another explanation), the original explanation makes more sense to me, it seems to fit more with the occurences in mgs2. Perhaps I will get destroyed for saying that but anyhow. Please don't tell me that S3 stands for "Selection for Societal Sanity", I am aware of this and really just looking at the first explanation. Both explanations are the same with regards to mirroring the shadow moses incident, just for different reasons. Where "solid snake simulation" says it is for creating soldiers like snake and "selection for societal sanity" states it is an experiment to see if human will can be manipulated (or something like that).

Snake couldn't seem to handle the bosses in mgs2 very well, Raiden was more suited to fighting them. Would Raiden have fared well against the original foxhound boses in mgs1? Vamp once said to Raiden that he couldn't read the way his muscles moved, that they were different (reminiscent of when psycho mantis said to snake "i can't read you". What i'm getting at is that each character was best suited to fighting their own enemies. Dead Cell a more modern enemy being fought by a more modern snake (argue if you will, but he really is), snake suited to his enemies in mgs1. Don't know what relevance this has, but was just thinking about it.

off topic slightly. Is it at all possible that raiden could have been engineered in some way (by the patriots after solidus lost track of him when he was a child soldier). He just seems to be too good of a soldier, and too naive. He almost matches solid snakes skill, and yet he has not been cloned from the legendary soldier big boss, raiden also has no visible special powers (mind control, fast movement etc) like boses in mgs have, how is it then that he can match the legendary soldiers skills so well? Could it also be that in the 5 years of his absence he went after the patriots on his own, (recalled memory of when they had him when he was young) the patriots bust him up and that is why he is a ninja now? This paragraph is pretty out there i know, just some thoughts

Also maybe worth mentioning that Snake seems to be the centre of the ninja cyborg thing "Grey fox>snake<Raiden" (<> doesn't mean better than/worse than here). Just meaning that Frank Yaeger took snake under his wing, then became ninja, then snake took raiden under his wing (sort of in mgs2) then raiden becomes ninja. What is is about snake that makes everyone become a ninja, lol.

please don't flame me i'm new (would make a nice t-shirt) :D

Oh and I always liked Raiden just hated Rose with a passion, hopefully rose is one of the ones that doesn't make a return in mgs4

I'll be honest as to why I didn't like playing as Raiden in MGS2, it was because he was an unknown factor when the game first came out. I don't like playing a game only to realize that there're things added secretly, ala MGS2 trailers showing Snake doing things that Raiden actually does instead. And I'll also admit that Raiden was a bit feminine at times, his whining, etc.

Raiden is awesome! I don't know why people would hate him.

THIS IS FOR ALL THE ASS HOLES WHO DON'T LIKE RAIDEN FUCK OOOOOOOF!!!!!
IF YOU DON'T LIKE RAIDEN YOU DON'T LIKE KOJIMA OR MGS. KOJIMA +RAIDEN +MGS=AWESOME REMEMBER THAT FUCKERS