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Title: Old Snake vs Ninja Raiden
Description: in a fight?


Serie - May 2, 2008 06:11 PM (GMT)
inspired from the poll about snake and raiden following mgs2, i didnt see one but i apologize if this topic was already made

my bad, accidentally clicked snake. picked wrong on my own poll
maybe he can bore raiden with stories of his childhood?


id have to go with ninja

Wilson - May 2, 2008 06:23 PM (GMT)
Solid Snake could easily defeat Ninja Raiden. Yes, NR has an exoskeleton, but so did Fox. Solid Snake could defet anyon in ny form of combat, at whatever age.

MGS. - May 2, 2008 06:43 PM (GMT)
Another "Someone VS Someone Else topic?!
It must stop some time....

Old Snake I believe, because even though Raiden has the exoskeleton Snake has more battlefield experience and much greater tactics and weapons to use against him.

FaizanKauser - May 2, 2008 06:44 PM (GMT)
Old snake cos hes got octocamo snake can hide and raiden wont suspect a thing and when raidens not looking POW! headshot !

WhySoSerious - May 2, 2008 07:06 PM (GMT)
I'm with Snake all the way.

Samuraisedge18 - May 3, 2008 06:29 AM (GMT)
all wrong, snake is human after all. so don't think that his battle tactics could beat this new raiden. raiden is way faster and can take nearly unlimited damage. snake couldn't kill raiden before raiden cuts him in two with the hf katana.

raiDen_X - May 3, 2008 07:26 AM (GMT)
i think some of you guys are ''lying'' to yourselves

SOLID SNAKE is the ''big legend with all the battle experience'' etc.
but he dont stand a chance at defeating RAIDEN..esspecially in an exo-suit
he couldnt even handle SOLIDUS with a grenade launcher

''brother im a whole different game from Liquid''

''is that the best you can do Snake?''

and remember
when he put his ''infinite battle experience'' to the test against Fortune:
''i'll figure out something...theres no such thing as a witch''

he ended up in handcuffs ''defenseless''...have you forgotten ?

It gets on my nerves when ppl try to pretend like Solid Snake cant EVER be beaten when in fact he already has.

Fortune couldnt outsmart Raiden in battle but when she fought Snake she beat him

Snake tried to kill Solidus with bullets and grenades and failed
...Raiden faced him sword to sword and took his life.

all im saying is if Snake cant keep up with Vamp--Solidus or Fortune
then how can he beat Raiden ?

BosaBoss - May 3, 2008 07:54 AM (GMT)
Definitely Raiden.
If think most people here are hardcore Snake-fans, like myself, but most people forget that Snake can easily die and Raiden is close to immortal. I mean, he pierces himself with a katana without effort and afterwards just continues fighting. Snake however starts throwing up when he rolls around too much. I don't see Raiden doing that during his continuous acrobatic moves.

The Merciless Warrior - May 3, 2008 12:54 PM (GMT)
Snake can't beat them all, but there is a way for Snake to win against a vast variety of warriors who appear to have Snake's superior.

We have to realize that Snake is no longer young, he's old now, so his reaction time when it comes to battle field awareness, would have dropped a bit, due to his senses being dimmed to a degree. Snake is suited with a muscle suit to increase his mobility and allow him to move with increased athletics and strike with more power, but he's still old. True, his skills are as honed as ever, but he's not the warrior he use to be when it comes to his stamina.

I think Old Snake can still put up a decent fight. Remember he has a great deal of battle field experience. Snake is no idiot he won't dare fight someone hand to hand if their movements are superhuman and they could walk on walls and do that acrobatic stuff. What makes Snake so great, is that he has the element of surprise, he knows how to tackle dangerous situations (what ever they may be), and he knows what to use and what not to use when going up against opponents. Basically, Snake is flexible to situations and fights who he can not everyone.

Just because a fighter posses abilities far above Snake's, that does not mean Snake can't use other tactics and surrondings to take advantage.

QUOTE
but he dont stand a chance at defeating RAIDEN..esspecially in an exo-suit
he couldnt even handle SOLIDUS with a grenade launcher


It depends on the surrondings. It is true though, Snake can't beat them all, but he might have had the advantage on a younger Raiden, due to Raiden being green (although he was naturally talented due to his childhood war days). But obviously if Snake attempts to face off against a superhuman Raiden, he'd lose. He must come up with a battle plan. He can't let himself be seen or he can't enter close quarters on Raiden's account. This is where Snake's arsenal comes in to play.

QUOTE
he couldnt even handle SOLIDUS with a grenade launcher

''brother im a whole different game from Liquid''

''is that the best you can do Snake?''


Well he forced Solidus into his plane, effortlessly. Solidus deflected Snake's bullets saying he was a whole different game from Liquid. Indeed he was, using a highly, mechanically engineered suit to increase his already honed battle skills to allow for inhumane like speed, strength, and endurance. Yeah bullets won't work.

QUOTE
and remember
when he put his ''infinite battle experience'' to the test against Fortune:
''i'll figure out something...theres no such thing as a witch''

he ended up in handcuffs ''defenseless''...have you forgotten ?


Yep. A single bullet, grenade, or punch would miss due to an electrical
device used to alter the flow of objects that get to close too her. Bullets will miss her, grenades will become inactive, shells would evade her, and I would assume punches and kicks will slide away as well. If blows did work, I'd doubt Snake would try anything stupid due to her carrying that monster of death in her hands. She also had a grudge, Snake was smart to let himself be captured. He could have easily died.

QUOTE
Fortune couldnt outsmart Raiden in battle but when she fought Snake she beat him


But she did. The only reason why Raiden got out alive was because one of the bullets that was suppose to kill her, ended up injuring Vamp, thus allowed Raiden ample time to escape, while she cry and and morn for someone who can't even die normally. Yeah that is showing real skill right there on Raiden's part.

QUOTE
Snake tried to kill Solidus with bullets and grenades and failed
...Raiden faced him sword to sword and took his life.


Bullets won't work on Solidus due to him having deflective arm guards. Also Raiden had a High Frequency Blade, way sharper and deadlier than a bullet from an automatic. That blade can cut through bullets, steel, and of course the soft part of Solidus's suit. Solidus and Raiden were more effective with a blade than Snake. Snake is not a fan of blades, he even said so.

I'm not saying Snake can win against Solidus and Vamp, but he would go in smartly and take the appropriate options when fighting against them. He'd use cover and stealth to his advantage. He'd come armed with everything he could carry. He'd use what ever technology he could to attempt a victory. Simply running up to Solidus or Vamp with no predisposed idea of their skills would definately lead to his death, quick and easy.

Snake is battle smart, he knows that in full close quartered battle with someone of superhuman strength, he'd lose. So he'll have to improvise.

(now)

I'm not saying Snake will beat Raiden, but in order to fight him effectively, he'll have to come armed and prepared for an all out war. Snake knows CQC, so when things get dirty, he'll have to quickly react to Raiden's movements in order to get the upperhand if Raiden manages to closes the gab. Firs things first, he'd have to get that sword away from Raiden.

For most of the fight Snake will be running from cover to cover, trying to find and opening. By using Octocam to his advantage, he'll become one with the environment. But under no circumstances should he approach Raiden's front. He'll have to react to Raiden's movements at all time. Wait for him to slip up. Because if Snake slips up, he'll die.

metalgear141 - May 3, 2008 01:49 PM (GMT)
snake is too experienced to lose to raiden no matter wats happened to him.

Hal - May 3, 2008 01:56 PM (GMT)
I'd have to go with old Snake, yeah he's old and got his penssioner's buspass a bit too early but he is just a 'badass'. Raiden needed a ninja exoskeleton to be a 'badass', without it he would just get owned. I know that you see Raiden taking on what seems like a gaziliion of those new metal gears, but he is just showing off, im sure old Snake could defeat just as many using his weapons and tactics, and we all know that he defeated Gray Fox as a ninja and he was freaking invisible....well sort of.

BosaBoss - May 3, 2008 02:12 PM (GMT)
I'm sure it would take much longer though, for Snake to kill those gekkous. Experience won't be enough.
An easy tactic for Raiden to win would be to just jump around real fast and make Snake dizzy, making him throw up, and that's Raiden's chance to finish it :P

I'm just joking, seeing Snake being old

Red Queen - May 3, 2008 02:29 PM (GMT)
Fanboyism aside guys and have your reality check: Snake right now can't do jack SHIT to Raiden. :) which is nothing to be ashamed about, nor does it make Snake look any less pwn than he is.

Raiden is strong, he is agile, he is YOUNG. Snake indeed has more combat experience, but Raiden doesn't have to camo his way out of fight or use any advanced tactic, he just slashes his way through, and the demonstration of his strength and speed is BEYOND human and quite frankly, more than most normal people could handle, including Snake.

He is the old man, tired of battle, tired of war. The way he is now he stands no chance whatsoever against Raiden.

Soriddo Suneku - May 3, 2008 03:15 PM (GMT)
I just wanted to say I'm sick of these damn "who would win, Daffy Duck or Donald?"
It's arbitrary, and pointless.

More than likely we won't find out in the next game, which is good. Because it would be stupid, no...retarded for Snake to fight Raiden, and to my knowledge as of now, he has no reason to in the first place.

skywalker - May 3, 2008 03:19 PM (GMT)
Kojima himself said Snake is now because of the advanced suit he is wearing, what Big Boss was supposed to be. Sure Raiden can jump around super human style and is pretty much a killing machine now, but mgs has taught us that these things dont always matter. In reality yes, Raiden could probably beat Snake based off of what we know. But in the mgs series the cut scenes show more skill than what the actual playable boss battle allows. Snake always finds a way through cunning and scrappiness.

The fact that he is old is negatd by the advanced suit he wears. I would say he can stand a damn good chance agaisn't Raiden. Raiden when he was human defeated Vamp, and it the fight between them in the trailer it appeared to be a stale mate the entire time. Yet Vamp is still the same when he fought Raiden as a human.

Wilson - May 3, 2008 04:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (raiDen_X @ May 3 2008, 07:26 AM)
i think some of you guys are ''lying'' to yourselves

SOLID SNAKE is the ''big legend with all the battle experience'' etc.
but he dont stand a chance at defeating RAIDEN..esspecially in an exo-suit
he couldnt even handle SOLIDUS with a grenade launcher

''brother im a whole different game from Liquid''

''is that the best you can do Snake?''

and remember
when he put his ''infinite battle experience'' to the test against Fortune:
''i'll figure out something...theres no such thing as a witch''

he ended up in handcuffs ''defenseless''...have you forgotten ?

It gets on my nerves when ppl try to pretend like Solid Snake cant EVER be beaten when in fact he already has.

Fortune couldnt outsmart Raiden in battle but when she fought Snake she beat him

Snake tried to kill Solidus with bullets and grenades and failed
...Raiden faced him sword to sword and took his life.

all im saying is if Snake cant keep up with Vamp--Solidus or Fortune
then how can he beat Raiden ?

:roll:
He wasn't beaten by Vamp. He allowed Vamp to do that to him, in order to test Raiden. He wanted to see if he could trust Raiden. Snake could easily kill Vamp. And keep him dead. If Raiden wasn't there, Snake wouldn't have tested him, therefore would have killed Vamp.
He did beat Solidus, but Solidus escaped into the Harrier and flew off. Solidus lost.
Snake realised that Fortune was just trying to avenge her father. So, he decided not to kill her. He told her the truth, and she half believed him. But when she heard it from Ocelot, there was no doubt of the fact, and she was shocked. Snake could have easily beaten her, but spared her instead.

Metal-Snake - May 3, 2008 04:40 PM (GMT)
I say Snake. He is a legend. Plus he beat Gray Fox. He has alot of battle experience.

Hal - May 3, 2008 04:50 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (raiDen_X @ May 3 2008, 07:26 AM)
...he ended up in handcuffs ''defenseless''...have you forgotten ?...

He broke his handcuffs, i think Kojima was trying to show that true battle experience and will is superior bla bla...because Raiden could not break his handcuffs yet, he had to face his demons and his past, etc. Solidus, and only after that he could become a soldier bla bla....i think Kojima mentions this in the making of MGS 2 Sons of Liberty DVD....anyway sorry for going off topic... :P

BosaBoss - May 3, 2008 04:57 PM (GMT)
I'm not sure and would have to see the sequence again, but Snake could break out if his cuffs because something hit them, a bullet or part of the missiles from Ray. Can someone check this out maybe?

Wilson - May 3, 2008 04:59 PM (GMT)
Nah, nothing hit them. He broke out of them with his brute strength.

Metal-Snake - May 3, 2008 05:00 PM (GMT)
I think Fortune might have helped him.

BosaBoss - May 3, 2008 05:05 PM (GMT)
Nope, here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEpYpxxryQ
At 3mins approximately. Bullets from Ray bounce of Solidus's swords. No normal human has that strength, not even Snake ;)

Metal-Snake - May 3, 2008 05:36 PM (GMT)
Oh yeah your'e right. I just seemed to remember it differently. Well he had to position himself or else he would have been shot. That takes skill.

BosaBoss - May 3, 2008 05:44 PM (GMT)
In my view it seemed like luck, not skill. Bullets were flying all directions and one luckily hit his cuffs and he saw his chance to break them eventually. Just in time to place the transmitter on Ray.

Metal-Snake - May 3, 2008 05:47 PM (GMT)
Come on. He had it all planned out.

BosaBoss - May 3, 2008 06:54 PM (GMT)
He must have, because Solid Snake is the greatest hero of all time.. :roll:
Maybe that's why he was surprised when it happened too.

Snake: " ?! "

Metal-Snake - May 3, 2008 06:59 PM (GMT)
Yeah my point exactly :D. Ok I agree with you. But as soon as he was free he took a chance and pulled it off.

XxGRAY-FOXX-xX - May 3, 2008 07:05 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (The Merciless Warrior @ May 3 2008, 12:54 PM)
Snake can't beat them all, but there is a way for Snake to win against a vast variety of warriors who appear to have Snake's superior.

We have to realize that Snake is no longer young, he's old now, so his reaction time when it comes to battle field awareness, would have dropped a bit, due to his senses being dimmed to a degree. Snake is suited with a muscle suit to increase his mobility and allow him to move with increased athletics and strike with more power, but he's still old. True, his skills are as honed as ever, but he's not the warrior he use to be when it comes to his stamina.

I think Old Snake can still put up a decent fight. Remember he has a great deal of battle field experience. Snake is no idiot he won't dare fight someone hand to hand if their movements are superhuman and they could walk on walls and do that acrobatic stuff. What makes Snake so great, is that he has the element of surprise, he knows how to tackle dangerous situations (what ever they may be), and he knows what to use and what not to use when going up against opponents. Basically, Snake is flexible to situations and fights who he can not everyone.

Just because a fighter posses abilities far above Snake's, that does not mean Snake can't use other tactics and surrondings to take advantage.

QUOTE
but he dont stand a chance at defeating RAIDEN..esspecially in an exo-suit
he couldnt even handle SOLIDUS with a grenade launcher


It depends on the surrondings. It is true though, Snake can't beat them all, but he might have had the advantage on a younger Raiden, due to Raiden being green (although he was naturally talented due to his childhood war days). But obviously if Snake attempts to face off against a superhuman Raiden, he'd lose. He must come up with a battle plan. He can't let himself be seen or he can't enter close quarters on Raiden's account. This is where Snake's arsenal comes in to play.

QUOTE
he couldnt even handle SOLIDUS with a grenade launcher

''brother im a whole different game from Liquid''

''is that the best you can do Snake?''


Well he forced Solidus into his plane, effortlessly. Solidus deflected Snake's bullets saying he was a whole different game from Liquid. Indeed he was, using a highly, mechanically engineered suit to increase his already honed battle skills to allow for inhumane like speed, strength, and endurance. Yeah bullets won't work.

QUOTE
and remember
when he put his ''infinite battle experience'' to the test against Fortune:
''i'll figure out something...theres no such thing as a witch''

he ended up in handcuffs ''defenseless''...have you forgotten ?


Yep. A single bullet, grenade, or punch would miss due to an electrical
device used to alter the flow of objects that get to close too her. Bullets will miss her, grenades will become inactive, shells would evade her, and I would assume punches and kicks will slide away as well. If blows did work, I'd doubt Snake would try anything stupid due to her carrying that monster of death in her hands. She also had a grudge, Snake was smart to let himself be captured. He could have easily died.

QUOTE
Fortune couldnt outsmart Raiden in battle but when she fought Snake she beat him


But she did. The only reason why Raiden got out alive was because one of the bullets that was suppose to kill her, ended up injuring Vamp, thus allowed Raiden ample time to escape, while she cry and and morn for someone who can't even die normally. Yeah that is showing real skill right there on Raiden's part.

QUOTE
Snake tried to kill Solidus with bullets and grenades and failed
...Raiden faced him sword to sword and took his life.


Bullets won't work on Solidus due to him having deflective arm guards. Also Raiden had a High Frequency Blade, way sharper and deadlier than a bullet from an automatic. That blade can cut through bullets, steel, and of course the soft part of Solidus's suit. Solidus and Raiden were more effective with a blade than Snake. Snake is not a fan of blades, he even said so.

I'm not saying Snake can win against Solidus and Vamp, but he would go in smartly and take the appropriate options when fighting against them. He'd use cover and stealth to his advantage. He'd come armed with everything he could carry. He'd use what ever technology he could to attempt a victory. Simply running up to Solidus or Vamp with no predisposed idea of their skills would definately lead to his death, quick and easy.

Snake is battle smart, he knows that in full close quartered battle with someone of superhuman strength, he'd lose. So he'll have to improvise.

(now)

I'm not saying Snake will beat Raiden, but in order to fight him effectively, he'll have to come armed and prepared for an all out war. Snake knows CQC, so when things get dirty, he'll have to quickly react to Raiden's movements in order to get the upperhand if Raiden manages to closes the gab. Firs things first, he'd have to get that sword away from Raiden.

For most of the fight Snake will be running from cover to cover, trying to find and opening. By using Octocam to his advantage, he'll become one with the environment. But under no circumstances should he approach Raiden's front. He'll have to react to Raiden's movements at all time. Wait for him to slip up. Because if Snake slips up, he'll die.

if we are talkin bout young snake from mgs 1 then snake would beat the shit outa raiden in his tech suit. he managed to OWN gray fox and he had a tech suit, hf blade, stealth, added strength,and agility.gray fox was one of only 2 people to gain the title of "fox"( besides roy campbell which was chicken fox) and he could easily beat raiden and if he can beat him then snake can too. if we are talkin bout old snake then he would have a hard time with him.


have you noticed in the trailers that raiden was in the helicopter after his fight with vamp and said "impressive cqc snake". i think snake saves raiden and fights vamp :ph43r: :fox: :fox:

Metal-Snake - May 3, 2008 07:08 PM (GMT)
What trailer was this?

BosaBoss - May 3, 2008 07:20 PM (GMT)
It depends on how they fight too. Solid Snake beat Gray Fox in a hand to hand fight. Plus, his suit is not the same as Raiden has right now.
You can't use that comparisation. It's Old, tired Snake against ninja Raiden. Snake might have a special suit that gives him the same abilities af before, but it's also said he will get tired faster.

Though, what you say could be true. Snake might go after Vamp while Raiden lies injured in the chopper.

Young Snake - May 3, 2008 08:01 PM (GMT)
Facts are facts. Snake's health doesn't favour him in MGS4, no matter how effective his muscle suit may be. Raiden will still be the one to emerge victorious, given his ne outfit, his far improved skills and the fact that he can pierce himself.

QUOTE (Wilson @ May 3 2008, 04:15 PM)
Snake could easily kill Vamp. And keep him dead. If Raiden wasn't there, Snake wouldn't have tested him, therefore would have killed Vamp.

We pretty much know that Vamp just won't die, so your argument fails miserably.

QUOTE (Wilson)
He did beat Solidus, but Solidus escaped into the Harrier and flew off. Solidus lost.


Hm, if I recall, it was Snake telling Raiden that the Kasatka couldn't stand up to the Harrier, and then the Kasatka flew off to avoid it.

QUOTE (Wilson)
Snake realised that Fortune was just trying to avenge her father. So, he decided not to kill her. He told her the truth, and she half believed him. But when she heard it from Ocelot, there was no doubt of the fact, and she was shocked. Snake could have easily beaten her, but spared her instead.


Of course, she would obviously believe the words of the man she herself described as 'the root to all her sorrow'. As long as she wore the shield technology, no one could kill her, not even the 'almighty Solid Snake'.

QUOTE (Bosaboss @ May 3 2008, 05:05 PM)
At 3mins approximately. Bullets from Ray bounce of Solidus's swords. No normal human has that strength, not even Snake wink.gif


It was revealed in the Making of MGS2 that Snake breaks free from the handcufs without help, symbolic of him being able to separate from his genetic 'curse/fate'. Snake makes his own future instead of following the fate of his genes, like Liquid.

Hal - May 3, 2008 08:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (BosaBoss @ May 3 2008, 05:05 PM)
Nope, here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEpYpxxryQ
At 3mins approximately. Bullets from Ray bounce of Solidus's swords. No normal human has that strength, not even Snake ;)

Just saw it, my bad, i guess it was kind of lucky, but it did show that Snake had to go after Liquid, his rival, and Raiden had to face Solidus his 'dad'.

The Box - May 4, 2008 03:57 PM (GMT)
it shows in one of the trailers, snake is struggling even to stay alive, sorry. but my moneys on raiden

Samuraisedge18 - May 5, 2008 02:38 AM (GMT)
discussions like this help us understand how everyone must die sometime. it's more of the fact that snake is now old snake. everyone can be defeated inculding snake. but it won't be raiden that kills him but destiny. naomi said he has 6 months due to foxdie.

Nikkolas - May 5, 2008 02:50 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Young Snake @ May 3 2008, 08:01 PM)
It was revealed in the Making of MGS2 that Snake breaks free from the handcufs without help, symbolic of him being able to separate from his genetic 'curse/fate'. Snake makes his own future instead of following the fate of his genes, like Liquid.

Well...are you saying we should ignore the game that flatly shows the bullet allowing Snake to break free?

wraith shadow - May 5, 2008 10:18 PM (GMT)
Swords don't beat old soliders with bad ass guns

redfox45 - May 5, 2008 10:58 PM (GMT)
Not sure as GF was playing with Snake and in a proper fight Raiden would not.

I still voted Snake though

The Snake - May 5, 2008 11:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Hal @ May 3 2008, 01:56 PM)
I'd have to go with old Snake, yeah he's old and got his penssioner's buspass a bit too early but he is just a 'badass'. Raiden needed a ninja exoskeleton to be a 'badass', without it he would just get owned. I know that you see Raiden taking on what seems like a gaziliion of those new metal gears, but he is just showing off, im sure old Snake could defeat just as many using his weapons and tactics, and we all know that he defeated Gray Fox as a ninja and he was freaking invisible....well sort of.

Yeah and i am for Snake after all he's the hero in the game :thumb:

beach stud - May 8, 2008 06:14 AM (GMT)
you guys need to quit swinging from snake's hairy smelly nuts. raiden would fuck him up.

GTFOYHH - May 8, 2008 06:28 AM (GMT)
Look how freaking agile and sexy Raiden is now! Snake wouldn't have a chance. He might break a hip!




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