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| OCELOT & VOLGIN; the tension between them | |
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| Topic Started: May 7 2007, 08:24 PM (1,005 Views) | |
| orionx103 | May 13 2007, 01:05 AM Post #21 |
Killer Assist
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You're wrong here on both counts. 1) The only reason Big Boss was "unable" to kill Ocelot was because of the Time Paradox failsafe in the game. 2) Were it not for the Ninja's interferance, Snake would've killed Ocelot after beating him in MGS. |
 "You're going to spend your whole life preparing to meet the Lord. Boy, you folks are crazy as hell." -Madalyn Murray O'Hare | |
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| UrbanCombat | May 13 2007, 11:09 AM Post #22 |
Shining Knight
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I'm not too sure on this one. Obvioulsy the player enjoyed killing Ocelot when he was unconsious to discover the time paradox thing, but that has nothing to do with the story. I think Big Boss, or rather Naked Snake was unable to kill Ocelot because I think he respected him, or his talents. We see this when he teaches Ocelot about the handguns he comes into battle with, and I also think they have an understanding at the end. |
 
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| g-fox | May 13 2007, 06:19 PM Post #23 |
hAv3 an0th3r PuNCh3 to TeH fAySe
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may i say that even if you could kill ocelot which you can't,he wouldn't exist in mgs1,2,and 4,thus giving the games a smaller plot and makes the game les enjoable,it's cause ocelot is a important person and so on(i think i went abit off topic here with that  )
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Spoiler: click to toggle My Big Boss emblem time. O o /Ż/___________________________ _ | PSN: Near606 \_\ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Ż | |
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| ..Liquid.. | May 13 2007, 06:38 PM Post #24 |
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Remember when Eva wants to shoot him? Snake puts Eva's gun away and tells her ''He's young'' Also it is'nt something for Snake to shoot a unarmed man. Naked Snake could have killed Ocelot a lot of times, and as for Solid. I personally think Ocelot would kill Solid if Gray Fox had'nt interrupted. Maybe we could rename this forum into ''What if ??? fought against ???'' |
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| Soriddo Suneku | May 13 2007, 07:44 PM Post #25 |
...I don't have a drinking problem!
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Although he doesn't seem to have a problem with slitting the throat of an unarmed man... Funny eh? |
  
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| g-fox | May 13 2007, 07:45 PM Post #26 |
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hAv3 an0th3r PuNCh3 to TeH fAySe
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shooting and slitting and 2 different things 
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Spoiler: click to toggle My Big Boss emblem time. O o /Ż/___________________________ _ | PSN: Near606 \_\ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Ż | |
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| Soriddo Suneku | May 13 2007, 08:01 PM Post #27 |
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...I don't have a drinking problem!
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I know. Shooting is more merciful. |
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| ..Liquid.. | May 13 2007, 08:05 PM Post #28 |
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Now i'm not certain about this but... Does Naked Snake actually kill anyone in the game, apart from The Cobra's and Volgin. I mean you never see him really kill someone, so I think he just stunned all the guards or knocked them out. I once managed to stun everyone, but I think this is not really affected if you kill someone since everyone plays differently. I think it's also the same for Solid, dont know about Raiden. You do have him on that Codec conversation saying he killed someone, and later in the game Solid and Raiden team up to kill alot of baddies. |
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| No-oneSpecial | May 13 2007, 08:55 PM Post #29 |
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That's in place because a lot of gamers go the whole game without killing anyone, so they don't want any confusion for that players to think that it never went through. Also, Snake could kill Ocelot any day. He took down a band of elite GRU operatives with just one tranq shot and some mighty fists. Ocelot was also knocked out in the brawl, and despite Major Zero and the rest telling him to eliminate the enemy, he left him. Then again, when Eva could have shot him dead, he stopped her, still defiant of Major Zero. Then there's the showdown in the WIG. It's sorta both ways but in one ending, Snake has the bullet in his gun but doesn't pull the trigger. People seem to forget... Snake/BB > ALL. |
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| -Shalashaska- | May 13 2007, 09:07 PM Post #30 |
L'arc (L)
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People, first you´re getting too much off topic, but still you´re confusing a lot of things and a lot of things are uncertain for most of us. First, about Ocelot and Volgin. The Lightings weren´t really fast, since you were able to dodge them with Big Boss, and Ocelot would be fast enough to dodge some. Also, as someone said, he´s a ricochet master, Volgin´s weakness is his most talented skill, it´s obvious Ocelot would beat Volgin, besides Ocelot is much smarter than Volgin. This is also obvious but some people seem to not understand this, Ocelot didn´t kill Volgin because that would have interfiered a LOT with the mission, it would have ruined his plans. To get the philosophers legacy, and to make sure The Boss and Big Boss would play their roll well. Not to mention that the army would kill him too. Now, no one and i mean no one in the game beated Ocelot excepting for Big Boss in CQC. Solid Snake was fighting against him, and no one won in that battle, since Ocelot said: ´´You´re pretty good, it´s just what i´d expect from the man with the same code as the boss... it´s been a long time since i had such a good fight, but i´m just getting warmed up``. Now you can see the fight wasn´t decided at that point, and he said he was just getting warmed up, so he was gonna fight even better, but later in the game in the conversation Ocelot, Raven and Liquid had, Raven said: ´´He´s just as you said, in battle he is as he´s possessed by a demon.``And Ocelot said:´´You see, i told you so, but i will kill him``. So Ocelot thought the same, that Snake was in fact damn good in battle. So imo in that fight there was no winner and no loser. Of course we can all give our opinion, but no one can be certain about this. In my opinion, the battle would have been though but Snake would have beated Ocelot, but not killed, Ocelot is smart enough to escape alive since his mission had nothing to do with a fight against Snake. And about Gray Fox, he cut Ocelot´s hand becuase he got him by surprise, i don´t know who would win between Ocelot and Fox, probably Fox becuase Ocelot is a lil old for him. And also, Big Boss beated Ocelot yes, but only fighting hand to hand, with CQC. In the fight they had, they were interrupted, and you can see the fight wasn´t over because before The Pain interrupted, both of them pointed at each other with the guns. It was more like a tie. And in fact before they started to fight, OCelot could have killed Snake, when they both got their revolvers out, but Ocelot was too fast and Big Boss couldn´t even take out his gun when Ocelot had taken it out and was pointing at him. Big Boss beated Ocelot, yes, the first time when they fought in the Virtous mission and then in the plane when you were getting away, but in a real fight with guns, no one beated Ocelot, never. |
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| Buffy | May 13 2007, 10:48 PM Post #31 |
中心愛
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^ Agree. Ocelot is the greatest with guns, i mean comon, the guy can make bullets bounce of walls. |
 
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| skywalker | May 13 2007, 11:42 PM Post #32 |
Light Saber trumps anything
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Really, are you sure That Ocelot was going to be killed in that fight when fox cut his arm off. Because I dont think it was nearly over. The Time Paradox is for you the player, not Big Boss. We are talking about in a fight. When Ocelot is laying there knocked out that doesn't count. Ocelot had more opportunites to kill Big Boss when he was unarmed than Big Boss had to kill Ocelot. Ocelot out drew him right before the caves, Could have shot him when you rescue Sokolov, and could have killed him in the hanger. When fighting Ocelot in combat, you never beat him.
There are 5 different endings for that scenario so you can't say that snake had the bullet. I say the real ending was that the bullet is a blank. |
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| -Shalashaska- | May 14 2007, 01:06 AM Post #33 |
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L'arc (L)
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5!? Am i missing one? i thought there were just 4, the one Snake has the bullet and misses, the one you don´t shoot, the one you shoot him and it´s a blank and the one he shoots you and it´s a blank. Well if Snake had Ocelot´s SAA in PO, then the right ending has to be the one in which Ocelot had the blank, if not then i don´t know. |
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| skywalker | May 14 2007, 03:20 AM Post #34 |
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Light Saber trumps anything
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The one were Ocelot jumps into the plane but his momentum is to great and he flies right through the other side!
 I know its not an official ending but its so damn funny I think it counts. And you just moderately spoiled PO.
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| No-oneSpecial | May 14 2007, 10:48 AM Post #35 |
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I'd ask you not to be stupid, but saying that the bonus video from the redux version of the game counts, is just so idiotic. Sorry if that seems harsh, but that's really a bad point. As for the SAA being in PO, you would know from the trailer that all the old weapons are back, because they're lazy. It was set only several years after SE, and so they even kept the same sprites, as you would have also seen. Even the Mosin Nagant is in PO, don't say I also ruined the game, because the guns have NOTHING to do with it. |
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| skywalker | May 14 2007, 12:37 PM Post #36 |
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Light Saber trumps anything
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Sorry I was just trying to be funny. I would never question Shalashaska in anything he said. I have lots of respect for him and his knowledge of the game. I guess No-oneSpecial is now the forum comedy patrol. Only serious and non humorous post may be made, no trying to lighten up the mood at all. I apologize for being "Idiotic." Since Snake does have the SAA in PO I would also assume that he chose the gun on the right with no bullet so I assume that is the actuall ending. So, there was another chance that Ocelot had to kill Snake that he didn't. Shalashaska pretty much said it all in his post, about Ocelot just getting warmed up in that fight with Solid Snake, and the fight with Big Boss being interupted. Ocelot has managed to stay alive for a long time so I think that he could beat most anyone in battle. He has great skills and is a master mind when it comes to playing people. He would beat Volgin hands down. |
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| ..Liquid.. | May 14 2007, 06:40 PM Post #37 |
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The actual ending is the one with the middle where you can choose cutscenes, not sure which one but you can see. |
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| -Shalashaska- | May 14 2007, 07:53 PM Post #38 |
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L'arc (L)
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But i didn´t mean just any SAA, i meant Ocelot´s SAA that´s given to Snake in the ending. That SAA, not just any other. And No-one special he was just messing, no need to get that upset. |
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| ..Liquid.. | May 14 2007, 07:58 PM Post #39 |
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But you guys have to remember how many times Big Boss could have killed Ocelot, Ocelot could have also killed Big Boss many times but, it was in his mission simply not to. If he would start killing Big Boss then he would jeopardize the whole Philosophers Legacy Mission. Big Boss did not know about that mission, so Big Boss could have really killed him a couple of times. -When you first meet Ocelot and he is knocked out -Second time when he stops Eva from shooting him -If the battle had continued, I think Ocelot would win in a gun battle, but Snake would probably jump anyway, trying to avoid death. -Ocelot could have killed Snake many times when he possesed the SAA, and Snake was unarmed, or to slow to draw his weapon. -Hell, Snake could have killed almost everyone when he was looking at Grozniy Grad, I mean he had a Sniper Rifle. From that distance he could have killed: The Boss, Volgin and Ocelot. |
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| -Shalashaska- | May 15 2007, 12:06 AM Post #40 |
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L'arc (L)
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Yeah that really is true Liquid. But well it doesn´t matter who could have killed the other one more times, because that had a LOT to do with the consecuences, and the background and stuff... I think in Snake Eater, maybe Big Boss would have beated Ocelot, since Ocelot was incredibly fucking good, but he needed more experience in the battlefield, he was really damn experienced, but not enough to fight Big Boss. NOw with a lil more experience, not even Big Boss would beat Ocelot. But imo Ocelot can have all the experience he wants, Solid snake could beat him anytime imo, well i think Solid Snake can beat anyone in the game, he´s just unbeatable, the best ever... no one can beat him, the closest are Liquid and Ocelot, but not even them can beat Snake, that´s my opinion anyway. |
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