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| Meryl was sexually abused?; And, like, I never understood that? | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 7 2008, 08:02 PM (731 Views) | |
| Lun-Sei Sleidee | Jul 7 2008, 08:02 PM Post #1 |
Don't even think about using auto-fire, or I'll know.
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While surfing the web in search of random MGS goodies, I casually stumbled into a random livejournal by some guy who wrote this: http://khronos-keeper.livejournal.com/120607.html Now, I've never actually given any real thought about the "things worse than torture" before, but upon stumbling on that journal I suddenly got to think about that. Uhu? Meryl was abused? By Ocelot? By some genome soldier? 
Edited by Lun-Sei Sleidee, Jul 7 2008, 08:03 PM.
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   猫は蛇への擬態を好むものだ
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| BosaBoss | Jul 7 2008, 08:04 PM Post #2 |
 
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I believe it's quite common in the army. At least from what I've learned in real life. It's very possible she had to deal with such cruelty, though I highly doubt it woul've been Ocelot. |
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| Lun-Sei Sleidee | Jul 7 2008, 08:16 PM Post #3 |
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Don't even think about using auto-fire, or I'll know.
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Well it appears I've discovered it only now then. Woah. o.O;;; This brings an interesting point, however, which I thought about just now. MGS1's Ocelot feels to me as if he may have been capable of doing such dishonorable things as rape. MGS3 and MGS4's Ocelot definitely doesn't seem that kind of person. (I won't mention MGS2 Ocelot... I barely remember him.) Does this bring another retcon, this time in the character's personality? (Kinda as seen in Big Boss.) |
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猫は蛇への擬態を好むものだ
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| sadistic_greyfox | Jul 7 2008, 08:22 PM Post #4 |
Ground Control to Major Tom
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I had the same feeling when she said that, some sort of sexual abuse because I really can't think what is worse and wont leave physical marks. |
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| BosaBoss | Jul 7 2008, 08:23 PM Post #5 |
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Ocelot is surerly capable of doing so. In MGS 3 he was only beginning to learn the "pleasure" or torture. I guess you could say that Volgin showed him the ropes (don't know if that spelling is correct). Too bad we didn't see any of it in MGS 4, only a little, but Spoiler: click to toggle Though, I don't see him raping Meryl.
Edited by BosaBoss, Jul 7 2008, 08:24 PM.
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| Lun-Sei Sleidee | Jul 7 2008, 08:35 PM Post #6 |
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Don't even think about using auto-fire, or I'll know.
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Mmmh. Then I assume there's no answer about what happened to Meryl and because of who. However, thinking about it has still somewhat given me a distinct feeling of different character development in the MGS episodes.... |
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猫は蛇への擬態を好むものだ
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| Roy Campbell | Jul 7 2008, 08:40 PM Post #7 |
Neko Boy
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When she said 'and things worse than that' rape was what came to my mind. By who? My guess is just a normal Genome Soldier - more than likely a few of 'em. |
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| Nils | Jul 8 2008, 12:40 AM Post #8 |
The Hunt Is On
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I thought of that when I replayed MGS1 a few weeks back. Now I wasn't so sure as to whom, but I wouldn't put it past Ocelot if he did it for the purposes of perfecting his torture. He wouldn't do it for pleasure, but as a perfectionist, he would want to hurt her ultimately, and lets face it, that would be the best way for him to do it. If he did or it, or if he ordered it done, I believe he would have succeeded in perfecting his torture there. Spoiler: click to toggle Not only that, while he is respectful, he only is of men. He treats EVA like crap in MGS3, and I don't think he particularly listened to Boss. He respected powerful men (the sons of the man he admired most) and that is all. |
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| johnnyakiba1017 | Jul 8 2008, 01:15 AM Post #9 |
Jail Guard
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I'm not quite sure, but he probably did do something sexually, because Ocelot is a professional torturer, that much is sure. He probably views torture as art, just the way he walks about it, like how the French (need to verify this) were the first to think of electrical torture, and things like that, maybe Ocelot sexually torturing Meryl isn't that far fetched. |
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| Helikaon | Jul 8 2008, 01:42 AM Post #10 |
Now we shoot?
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I think of it the same way as the scene in Resident Evil 4 where Ashley Graham is "approached" in a way that screams "gang rape" by the Ganados on the island. In my opinion Ocelot himself didn't do it, but rather let a few Genomes have their way with her. Although I believe this line (just like the Dr Clark gender) isn't present in the original Japanese script and was added by whoever translated the script for the English language versions. |
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| Shammien | Jul 8 2008, 03:37 AM Post #11 |
Here's to You
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Remember Ocelot saying "I'll have my fun with her" and stuff like that if you give up during the torture or something, guess it was supposed to be rape, but then Ocelot became this mega major, big character in the next MGS games so Kojima probably just decide to keep his mouth shut and hope we forgot that line from MGS  EDIT: And yes Lun-sei, I have also noticed that he has a total different personality, in MGS2, 3 and 4 he is slightly sadistic but... still controlled and calm...he's smart and cunning. While in MGS1 he was just a sadistic typical sadistic bad guy who knows nothing but killing and fighting, he doesn't have control over himself, killing the DARPA chief with an accident (and it WAS an accident at that time, Hideo didn't think of Sigint and Ocelot being patriots at that time!) So yeah, Ocelot in MGS1 and Ocelot in the others are different, he wasn't a big major character in MGS1, only special about him was that he survived the game and had a special ending phone call. Come to think of it, the only similarity between Ocelot in MGS1 and the others are his appearence....lol
Edited by Shammien, Jul 8 2008, 03:41 AM.
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| Lun-Sei Sleidee | Jul 8 2008, 07:21 AM Post #12 |
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Don't even think about using auto-fire, or I'll know.
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Once again, I agree with your points, Shammien. I think that adding to Ocelot's personality in the latest MGS games was very cool (otherwise he wouldn't have become one of my favorite characters), but it shouldn't have made him "nicer" than he originally was. |
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猫は蛇への擬態を好むものだ
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| BosaBoss | Jul 8 2008, 07:31 AM Post #13 |
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IMO when Ocelot says that, I'm pretty sure he meant just torture because for him it is "fun". Like in Snake Eater where he sees Volgin do it, he says something like, "Hey, this isn't so bad after all." I think around that point he starts enjoying it and perfecting his skill with it. As to his role in Metal Gear Solid, I think it still was pretty big. He was always next to Liquid Snake. When they tortured Snake or when they talk in the command room in Rex' hold. And like you said, he had the last lines in the game. Edited by BosaBoss, Jul 8 2008, 07:33 AM.
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| God Told Me to Skin You Alive | Jul 8 2008, 08:26 AM Post #14 |
The Purple Patriot.
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Maybe it was Johnny...? Heh. Personally, I always interpretated "...and things even worse than that..." as sexual abuse, but I wouldn't go so far as to say raped. It doesn't seem like Ocelot is the kind of guy to 'get off' on it- he himself says "It's the ultimate form of expression," and it would seem like only insecure/downtrodden psyches would 'express' themselves through rape, which we know Ocelot is not. |
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| Solid Spartan | Jul 8 2008, 09:08 AM Post #15 |
You cannot change your fate. No man can.
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I used to think some kind of physical or sexual degradation or even rape was what she meant by it, but not necessarily Ocelot being the culprit at this point (originally I did, but that was before his character was so well developed). As for the suggestion of Johnny being the culprit, he just doesn't strike me that way. He never came off like all the other Genomes. And as a result I never actually killed him in any of my playthroughs (but that's beside the point). You've also got to consider the fact that Meryl and Wolf were the only known women on the base. And only a man with a deathwish would even consider attempting to assault Wolf's person. But at the same time, I really can't see Wolf allowing that kind of treatment. She seemed too honorable (she doesn't kill for sport), especially considering the horrors that her own people (Kurdish-Iraqis) have suffered, with the very real possibility that Wolf herself may have been subjected to rape in her youth, prior to joining FOXHOUND. My take on the subject. |
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| Nils | Jul 15 2008, 08:44 AM Post #16 |
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The Hunt Is On
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Hm. As many people have said though, he most likely ordered Genome soldiers to do the actual raping, with him watching and walking around her laughing and talking about things to make it worse. That is most likely how he would get the most out of it, thinking himself the master torturer. Then again, anything is possible. Cowboys have their needs. 
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| Samuraisedge18 | Jul 15 2008, 11:11 AM Post #17 |
Lunatic Wizard
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this doesn't really explain anything but Spoiler: click to toggle now this obviously doesn't confirm anything other than that merly was showing him that she''s a tough cookie and that she survived whatever he did to her but it was a subtle part that was really awesome. Edited by Samuraisedge18, Jul 15 2008, 11:13 AM.
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| The Merciless Warrior | Jul 15 2008, 03:13 PM Post #18 |
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I thought the same thing when I heard Meryl speak about her torture. In MGS1, Ocelot was that type of sadist. In MGS3, he was still young, but he developed a liking for the art of torture through Volgin, hell he even complemented it afterwards. But I doubt he raped her. He probably did result to sexual abuse, I mean he even tried a little of that with Eva all those decades ago. Of course he expressed he had no attraction for her and that he was just trying to figure her out. But the roles of Ocelot changes with the times, he has to do whatever needed to suit how his role is carried out in the mission. And if he has to be a sadist, then so be it, he happened to be experienced in that art anyway. |
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| Sybris | Jul 15 2008, 11:49 PM Post #19 |
Light Infantry
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I don't think Ocelot is like that considering the side he's on.. maybe it just was an act that he perpetuated for so long that everyone thought that of him.. |
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| Solid Spartan | Jul 16 2008, 01:34 AM Post #20 |
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You cannot change your fate. No man can.
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Still, it doesn't seem to me like something Wolf would allow, though. |
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