Lun-Sei Sleidee

Jul 7 2008, 08:16 PM

Well it appears I've discovered it only now then. Woah. o.O;;;

This brings an interesting point, however, which I thought about just now. MGS1's Ocelot feels to me as if he may have been capable of doing such dishonorable things as rape. MGS3 and MGS4's Ocelot definitely doesn't seem that kind of person. (I won't mention MGS2 Ocelot... I barely remember him.) Does this bring another retcon, this time in the character's personality? (Kinda as seen in Big Boss.)

Adamska64

Jul 16 2008, 11:31 AM

Why would he do that, he's asexual (part of the reason why he's baller, because he's never once shown to have lust for either men or women)

Lun-Sei Sleidee

Jul 16 2008, 09:25 PM

Adamska64

Jul 16 2008, 11:31 AM

Why would he do that, he's asexual (part of the reason why he's baller, because he's never once shown to have lust for either men or women)

Ocelot asexual? He doesn't seem so, to me he looks even kinda lewd at times.

In any case, I think I understood how things went: it's a retcon!! Because Kojima originally didn't have so much things planned for the character of Ocelot, obviously. Then once he started giving him more personality, the fact Ocelot had to turn into a more sympathetic character to the public caused a contraddiction with the MGS1 events.

Solid Spartan

Jul 16 2008, 01:34 AM

Nils

Jul 15 2008, 08:44 AM

Hm. As many people have said though, he most likely ordered Genome soldiers to do the actual raping, with him watching and walking around her laughing and talking about things to make it worse. That is most likely how he would get the most out of it, thinking himself the master torturer.

Still, it doesn't seem to me like something Wolf would allow, though.

Nils

Jul 17 2008, 10:50 AM

Solid Spartan

Jul 16 2008, 01:34 AM

Nils

Jul 15 2008, 08:44 AM

Hm. As many people have said though, he most likely ordered Genome soldiers to do the actual raping, with him watching and walking around her laughing and talking about things to make it worse. That is most likely how he would get the most out of it, thinking himself the master torturer.

Still, it doesn't seem to me like something Wolf would allow, though.

I dont think would would have had that much choice in the matter. If Ocelot deemed it a necessary form of torture he could have pulled it off. Afterall he was Liquid's right hand man. Not only that, I don't think Wolf would have cared all that much for Meryl.

Shammien

Jul 8 2008, 03:37 AM

Remember Ocelot saying "I'll have my fun with her" and stuff like that if you give up during the torture or something, guess it was supposed to be rape, but then Ocelot became this mega major, big character in the next MGS games so Kojima probably just decide to keep his mouth shut and hope we forgot that line from MGS

EDIT: And yes Lun-sei, I have also noticed that he has a total different personality, in MGS2, 3 and 4 he is slightly sadistic but... still controlled and calm...he's smart and cunning.
While in MGS1 he was just a sadistic typical sadistic bad guy who knows nothing but killing and fighting, he doesn't have control over himself, killing the DARPA chief with an accident (and it WAS an accident at that time, Hideo didn't think of Sigint and Ocelot being patriots at that time!) So yeah, Ocelot in MGS1 and Ocelot in the others are different, he wasn't a big major character in MGS1, only special about him was that he survived the game and had a special ending phone call. Come to think of it, the only similarity between Ocelot in MGS1 and the others are his appearence....lol

Big Boss.

Jul 18 2008, 07:20 AM

i think everyone is reading way to much in to this, i think the line "yes and worse" was ment to make the player feel for Meryl as she wasn't hardened solider like Snake. I believe Kojima wouldn't want to hit on a subject like rape, and if he did he would handle it appropiatly.

As far as killing the DARPA chief it WASN'T an accident as he even tells us in the phone call at the end "No, sir. My cover is intact. Nobody knows who I really am. Yes, the DARPA Chief knew my identity, but he's been disposed of."

Solid Spartan

Jul 17 2008, 11:41 AM

Nils

Jul 17 2008, 10:50 AM

Solid Spartan

Jul 16 2008, 01:34 AM

Nils

Jul 15 2008, 08:44 AM

Hm. As many people have said though, he most likely ordered Genome soldiers to do the actual raping, with him watching and walking around her laughing and talking about things to make it worse. That is most likely how he would get the most out of it, thinking himself the master torturer.

Still, it doesn't seem to me like something Wolf would allow, though.

I dont think would would have had that much choice in the matter. If Ocelot deemed it a necessary form of torture he could have pulled it off. Afterall he was Liquid's right hand man. Not only that, I don't think Wolf would have cared all that much for Meryl.

I see the point your making.

But I'm just going on my interpretation of her character from when I first met her, so to speak. Both she and Raven never gave me the impressions that they were 100% devoted to Liquid and his (or rather supposedly his) plot.
If FOXHOUND and the Genomes threw a party, I seriously doubt Wolf would be the life of it.

Nils

Jul 18 2008, 09:14 AM

Solid Spartan

Jul 17 2008, 11:41 AM

Nils

Jul 17 2008, 10:50 AM

Solid Spartan

Jul 16 2008, 01:34 AM

Nils

Jul 15 2008, 08:44 AM

Hm. As many people have said though, he most likely ordered Genome soldiers to do the actual raping, with him watching and walking around her laughing and talking about things to make it worse. That is most likely how he would get the most out of it, thinking himself the master torturer.

Still, it doesn't seem to me like something Wolf would allow, though.

I dont think would would have had that much choice in the matter. If Ocelot deemed it a necessary form of torture he could have pulled it off. Afterall he was Liquid's right hand man. Not only that, I don't think Wolf would have cared all that much for Meryl.

I see the point your making.

But I'm just going on my interpretation of her character from when I first met her, so to speak. Both she and Raven never gave me the impressions that they were 100% devoted to Liquid and his (or rather supposedly his) plot.
If FOXHOUND and the Genomes threw a party, I seriously doubt Wolf would be the life of it.

Agreed. I find Raven more devoted to Liquid that Wolf was. I doubt shed be the life and soul of any party. However, I don't think she would have gone as far as to stop Ocelot. She would have just gone to see to her puppies (take that how you will) and ignored the 'politics' of the situation. I don't think she involves herself in any major decisions at all.

Your post did make me laugh my arse off though.

Paris Hilton.

Adamska64

Jul 17 2008, 10:37 AM

Gray Fox has had a lover before. Like I said, it's more fitting considering his ability to transcend what is normally expected of a person...or maybe I just think this because he's a lot like me, and I'm asexual (apathetic might be a better word, idk).

Quote:

 

how do you now when gray fox had a lover? i see what you're saying but do you think that his character was going to have a romantic relationship in the story? he just doesn't care for anyone but he could still get pleasure out of sexual encounters. i don't think he's asexual. he just doesn't care about anyone. he just idolized big boss. who knows

Roy Campbell

Jul 7 2008, 08:40 PM

When she said 'and things worse than that' rape was what came to my mind.

By who? My guess is just a normal Genome Soldier - more than likely a few of 'em.

Lun-Sei Sleidee

Jul 19 2008, 10:15 AM

Even the legendary icon Big Boss did have his desires. XD