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| GTMtSYA reviews The Dark Knight.; Spoilers. | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 24 2008, 05:11 AM (684 Views) | |
| God Told Me to Skin You Alive | Jul 24 2008, 05:11 AM Post #1 |
The Purple Patriot.
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I wasn't going to make a seperate topic, but there are like four Batman topics going on the front page so I thought I'd make my own. This is going to be hard to write. Where to begin- the movie is long- but appropriately long. Coming off the steam off Batman Begins, they seemed to have realised what they did wrong in that movie and tried to minimise to shit. The Lucias Fox miracle-get-anything-anytime-Drebin scenes are down to a minimal. The emphasis on Bruce Wayne as a stupid ridiculously rich playboy- mentioned once or twice, I thought maybe a bit much, but not an unacceptable amount. The stupid The non-canonity (?) towards the Batman comics has decreased. Still present, but palatable. Now, Heath Ledger as the Joker. It might be just be me, but his monologues seem poorly edited. It seems like they go on for way too long, with too much emphasis on his face and nothing else. There was rarely music in the background when he starts talking, and there was too little going on in the background. There's the scene when he crashes Wayne's party, lots of gasps and screams, the moment the camera's on his face- no sound at all. As for Heath's performance- well, I will say right now, it is not Oscar-worthy. It is a good performance, I'll give him that -certainly the best he's ever done- and when he does cackle or giggle in that creepy high-pitched fashion, he hits the nail on the head. But for the most part, it seems like all the raving is about how he's interpretated the Joker- the catch is, this is how Joker should be. Grungy. Dark. Creepy. Anyone who's read The Killing Joke, where some of the inspiration for his peformance/the movie itself can see how the Joker should be. So, I think, he's done nothing special. If he gets an Oscar for this, Johnny Depp deserves three for Jack Sparrow. Chrisopher Bale is back, but once again it seems like it's him trying to be a really good actor, but just not getting the right situation. It's too easy for him to be a dumbass playboy and then growl his way through the Batman. Though emphasis on the Dark Knight himself does stray, he's still the central part of the movie. Unfortunately, it still misses my favourite bit about Batman- his monologue thoughts on Gotham City and his infinite and pointless war against crime. It's all very Max Payne or Fight Club if done right, but they seem to have skimmed over that bit of the comics entirely in every Batman movie ever. So, despite all the hype on Joker, the movie is still mostly about Batman, which is a good thing. The dude playing Two-Face- can't remember his name, A. Eckson or something (I'm not going to use Wikipedia atm, so there) is in, my opinion, a really good actor. He looks like he's a standard Hollywood movie actor, with that jaw-line and chin and forehead and such, but he's usually pretty good. Though he does have to force out some pretty tripe dialogue, he plays Dent excellently (though not how I invision Dent, but still good) and does what he can with Two-Face. Okay, SPOILERS ahead. Bringing back 'Rachel Dawes', a character that I didn't think was memorable from Begins (she might not even feature in the comic books, either, but I could be wrong) just to... kill her off seemed a bit pointless. Though that was a poignant comment on the Batman > Wayne thing, I think they could have easily introduced another character rather than reprise a character nobody cared about. With the plot- a few things just didn't seem right. The whole point of Joker/Batman is that they are opposites- they both had 'one bad day' that turned them into what they are now, they just happen to express themselves differently. Joker and Batman need each other to survive, to remind themselves of what they could have been. They define themselves through the image of the other. Dark Knight addresses this, but it seems poorly handled, but it doesn't seem like the creator's faults, more what we expect from Hollywood movies these days. The Joker had to appear, be creepy, take hold of Gotham and then be captured within two hours- alongside every other event in the movie. There's a similar problem with Dent/Two-face, but I'll get to that. Frankly, they just didn't have time for the audience to relate to Joker as the 'immortal enemy' of the Batman, because he wasn't in the last movie. And he obviously can't be in any other movies to follow. So, it makes you wonder why they included that bit of the Batman/Joker relationship at all, if they couldn't truly get it across. Two-Face- the whole time Dent was onscreen, I was waiting for the bottle of acid to come flying up out of nowhere and disfigure him. Nope! Instead, they took liberties- against the canon. Oh noes! Nah, seriously though. I was happy with the Dent-to-Two-Face plot they dreamt up, it just took so damn long to occur. So, once again, they didn't have enough to time to build up Two-Face as a character, so the anguish Batman has to suffer to fight Dent, his once best friend and the 'White Knight' of Gotham, seems out of place instead of the pinnical of the their relationship. Then they stupidly killed him off. Which means, another one-three villains have to be introduced in the next one. Scarecrow is back, in a cameo role, which was okay. He was a terrible choice of villain for the first movie anyway. Some of the shots in this movie are good, most of them are cliche. Some of the Joker ones are excellent, some of the Batman ones are excellent. Otherwise, it's standard action-flick layouts and compositions. The music, for the most part, seemed terrible. My opinion is slightly bias in this regard because I think the cinema I went to had some volume-control issues (sometimes it seemed too loud, other times it seemed too soft). If that was actually meant to be like that, shame on them. But otherwise, it seemed poorly implemented or just plain standard. The only passage I remember liking was some percussion-heavy jungle beat in one the chase scenes. That's really all I can think of. While it's not great, it is okay, maybe even good. It's certainly the best movie I've seen at the cinemas probably all year, but that isn't saying much. All I can say is don't believe the hype. Unless I can think of anything to add, that's all. Hope you enjoyed. Edit: tl;dr: 6.5/10 Edited by God Told Me to Skin You Alive, Jul 24 2008, 08:48 AM.
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| Null | Jul 24 2008, 08:56 AM Post #2 |
Justify my thug.
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Any spoilers? If not I'll read it fully. But 6.5/10!? DEAR LORD. |
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| God Told Me to Skin You Alive | Jul 24 2008, 09:02 AM Post #3 |
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The Purple Patriot.
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Yep. |
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I'm better at Metal Gear Solid than you will ever be. Prove me wrong. Proud founder of derp.
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| Ocelotzilla | Jul 24 2008, 09:39 AM Post #4 |
 
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6.5/10. Dude. That's looooow. It currently ranks #1 with a 9.5 at IMDb, after 100.000+ votes. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/ How did you grade 'Batman Begins'? I do think the stats are distorted somewhat by Heath Ledger's death. That feeling that something doesn't live up to it's hype, I had that with 'GTA:IV'. Everyone was throwing 10/10's, but it was a decent 9. San Andreas was at least as good a game. EDIT: I haven't seen 'The Dark Knight' yet, but I am going this weekend. Edited by Ocelotzilla, Jul 24 2008, 09:41 AM.
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| Helikaon | Jul 24 2008, 01:26 PM Post #5 |
Now we shoot?
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Which is why I think he deserves an Oscar nomination at the very least. For me, he has taken what I have been reading on the page for nearly 15 years and put it on a screen in an almost exact replication of what I first thought when I read The Killing Joke. Exactly why does Depp deserve an Oscar for Sparrow? Because he slurs his words a bit and walking like a man who has been drinking since the crib? He does a fine performance as a pirate, but it can't be compared to what Ledger has done with the Joker. Ledger has taken a pre-existing character (which Sparrow was not, as far as I know) and managed to replicate it without it being stale or corny. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pirates of the Caribbean films and Jack Sparrow is one of my favourite characters in film but I can't see any reason why Depp should get an Oscar for it if Ledger gets an Oscar for the Joker. When I saw the film for the first time and when I first saw the Joker, my immediate thoughts weren't "Oh here's XXXX star, I can't wait to see what he does" as I most often do with films based on something I care about, I thought "that's the Joker", in a way that never happened with Tobey Maguire, Thomas Jane and Hugh Jackman.
They needed a character for Dent to care about, much easier to use a pre-existing character than spend a lot of time introducing a new character. With Rachel it was a simple case of remembering that she was already working in the District Attorneys office and it's not hard to reason that she grew close to him because of Batman.
Didn't they? I think the Joker explains it pretty well. But then again, that's because I'm a Batman fan and I know the backstory, but if I didn't I'm pretty sure that I would have worked out what the Joker is to Batman.
Dead? I didn't see him die. I saw him fall of a building but I didn't see him breath his last breath. Take into consideration that Eckhart has said he would like to do another movie and I'd say it's far from concrete that Two-Face is dead.
Why? I thought he was alright and that Murphy was good in the role. |
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| God Told Me to Skin You Alive | Jul 24 2008, 02:28 PM Post #6 |
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The Purple Patriot.
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I was comparing how similar the roles seemed (I don't think Depp deserves an Oscar for it). On that topic, Oscar's don't mean = best actor ever. It's just another award. I wasn't captivated, except when he was cackling, which wasn't as much as I would have liked. That's all. Ledger has taken a pre-existing character and nearly got it right on. So what? I thought the only remotely good thing about Heath himself in the role was because he was underwhelming in every shitty movie he's been in. You cannot tell me that his nomination (and subsequent victory) of an Oscar won't be influenced by his death and the public/media overblowing everything. I know what you mean by corny/stale, but I don't think it would be that hard to pull off the Joker. He certainly had a lot of material to draw from, even if he didn't (he stated that he couldn't read The Killing Joke).
Hmm. To me, it just seemed like an unessecary throwback to Begins, and I don't think it would have been that hard to introduce a new character. It just seemed like they were hopign people would remember the Batman/Rachel movie in order to add tension and then the climatic Two-Face conversion, which could have easily happened some other way- like in the canon. I hate saying it, 'canon', but still.
Well, I was pretty much looking out for that the whole movie. Didn't happen.
Man, you brushed aside a whole paragraph but only addressed the last sentence? I did jump the gun a bit there, of course his death isn't confirmed. Here's hoping he'll be in the eventual sequel.
I thought he was excellent in the role, but again- it seemed like a cheap throwback to the first one. As for the choice of villain in the first one- it seemed that for half the movie was spent establishing Batman, then they had to quickly throw in an actual villain/resolution. Scarecrow just isn't as identifiable as say, Two-Face/Joker/Catwoman/Poison Ivy/ etc. I can't really remember the first one, other than that I didn't really like it. Just something I've remembered: I remember reading about the Oscar-nomination thing was that 'big budget Hollywood action super hero is a genre oft overlooked by the Academy'. There's a reason for that- they are, basically, average action films. They don't do anything special. Which is why Dark Knight was no where near how good it could be, it could be GRIM and DARK, it could be set in the post-apocolyptic Gotham with statues of goblins on every building. It could be psychological/disturbing like The Killing Joke or Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth. But it won't ever be. Because it's a big budget Hollywood super hero action movie. |
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I'm better at Metal Gear Solid than you will ever be. Prove me wrong. Proud founder of derp.
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| Providence | Jul 24 2008, 04:22 PM Post #7 |
Terminate with extreme prejudice.
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Rachel was anything but a pointless character - she was EXTREMELY vital to the plot in so many ways if you'd actually stop and think about it. And if Ledger's role isn't Oscar worthy, I don't know what is. It's the best thing he was able to do in his lifetime and he did it so well that he himself was unrecognizable. He was the Joker - the Joker starred as the Joker, in a sense. And just so you know, I'm not a fanboy. I went into the movie expecting to be disappointed and it was actually the first Batman film that I've seen. But no other comic book movie has hit me as hard, and while the dialog was pretty embarrassing at times (though I try to keep in mind what it's based from - a comic book for christ's sake), the acting and clever direction was more than enough to make it a great film in my opinion. |
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| Djhell | Jul 24 2008, 04:39 PM Post #8 |
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Jail Guard
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SPOILERZ IN RESPONSE!
Have you paid any attention to his facial expressions, his walking, mimic, the constant licking of his scars? If you only listened to him then I'm sad for you, you missed one awesome bit of the movie. And if anything, music while he is speaking would be a disgrace to his awesome performance.
Again, not really your place to say that since you clearly didn't pay attention to his act, which you've clearly shown in above paragraph. He was constantly filmed in close up shots, so he had to stay TOP NOTCH the entire time - and he did, with ease. When he was laughing like a maniac at Batman when he was beating him up quite mercilessly, I believed him. I agree Johnny Depp should get gazillion oscars already as he is probably most adaptable and diverse actors a this moment, but don't say heath isn't worthy of one just because Johnny didn't get any. I am in the middle about the whole thing, but if you'd be happy to enlighten me with more plausable evidence then your sympathy for Johnny Depp I might be convinced.
Hm, I have 2 agree with you there.
It's not the point that she died, the point is WHY she died. Her death is related to Joker's own awesomeness since he knew batman will save him, the Batman himself who sacrificed the love of his life just to give Gotham city a hero, and the fact that he fell victim to his own words - he lived long enough to see himself become the villain. He couldn't take it, while Batman could, which shows that her death was a loss-loss situation and shows Batman as a human being, not supernatural hero who always does the right thing.
He represents what we are supposed to be now, Joker and his beliefs are a critique of society, that WE belong to. Script clearly expresses that with the scenes on the two ships where the CIVILIANS are the ones voting to kill off the prisoner and burning down all the money. Why do you try to relate to Joker only when he is on screen? All of the movie is pretty much his doing and I founf plenty of non direct material I used to relate myself with him.
They did, it started right after he was 1st introduced. HE lived long enough to become a vilian, nothing very hard to grasp here. The man snapped after experiencing what he did and he obviously had some anger issues from before(the subway scene). And it shows how wrong Batman really was thinking he can take more than he does, did and will, which again shows him more human, and more accessible.
It wasn't stupid, it meant Joker won, and when Batman said "they must never know", he meant they must never know that Joker managed to turn over once white knight to the dark side. The point of his death is that despite he fact they both perished physically, the IDEA STILL LIVES ON, and that Gotham NO longer has a hero. I think you really missed the point of the movie, the pint of the movie isn't Joker being the bad guy and Batman chasing him. I'm sorry but I think your evaluation is very poorly based on the fact that you didn't see the movie from the right angle. The movie is actually a critique to TODAY, to all of us. I think you should listen to what movie really has to say if you ever see it again. While not best movie ever, I'd surely give it solid 8,5/10. Edited by Djhell, Jul 24 2008, 04:41 PM.
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save your tears for the day when our pain is far behind | |
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| ..Liquid.. | Jul 24 2008, 07:01 PM Post #9 |
\m/
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I just came back from seeing it.. And Lloyd, you are so completely wrong on almost everything, my opinion anyway. Nothing what I can say hasn't been said by Helikaon, Providence or Djhell. The movie was one of the greatest things ever to date, and I don't care about the hype or anything. What Heath Ledger did was amazing, comparing him to Jack Sparrow is rather stupid, their roles aren't even alike. I loved the movie, and I might write a review for it(seems to be the trend) |
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| Roy Campbell | Jul 24 2008, 07:30 PM Post #10 |
Neko Boy
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There is far to many Dark Knight fanboys around. I saw the film today and didn't find it anywhere near as exciting as everyone seems to make out. It was a good watch but nothing award worthy and should be very very far away from anyones top movie list. I'm not going to do a whole review or anything like that but my rating would be - 7/10. |
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| Null | Jul 24 2008, 07:33 PM Post #11 |
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Justify my thug.
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Seems a few people have a case of the trying to be different's |
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| Djhell | Jul 24 2008, 07:35 PM Post #12 |
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Jail Guard
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No offense but some of you should seriously stay at watching Marvel movies and not touch DC comics ones. If you do not see the movie's qualities you're either: a) Too young b) Too ignorant Edited by Djhell, Jul 24 2008, 07:38 PM.
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save your tears for the day when our pain is far behind | |
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| Null | Jul 24 2008, 07:37 PM Post #13 |
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Justify my thug.
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^ Well thats a bloody stupid statement to make. It's not like Marvel have a bad catalouge of films. Infact Spiderman 2 is my favourite comic book movie ever, and probably will remain to be after seeing TDK. But thats probably down to my Spiderman fanboyism. |
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| The Departed | Jul 24 2008, 07:40 PM Post #14 |
^^Give back my watch dammit!
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It has zilch to do with being a fanboy Roy. I personally am no fan boy, this is my opinion. To the member who said people who like Marvel over DC are young and ignorant, everyone is entitled to their opinion, who are you to make such a dumb comment? I hated the Superman movie because it sucked ass, but both Batman movies blew me away. And Ironman, Spiderman, X-Men and The Incredible Hulk all blew me away, especially Ironman. The movie kept me on edge the entire time, no movie before that has ever done that to me. I was tired when I entered the theater and when the movie started at 12:30am, and when it ended at 3:00am, I was in awe. The movie deserves all the high scores its getting, no oscar for Ledger in my opinion because these movies aren't really Oscar friendly, the Oscar people said so themselves. That being said, the story and premise was just phenomenal. Spoilers ahead. Anyone who says Rachael is a useless character doesn't understand story. She was the tool that drove Batman to wanting to protect Dent so he could be Bruce again and be with her. She was also the key element that turned Dent into the deranged killer he turned into towards the end of the movie. Without her, how could Dent had been pushed over the edge the way he was?
If you're gonna say that, you could at least explain why that is, couldn't you? Because clearly if so many more people love this movie, than your post is probably a bit off. Though everyone's entitled to their opinions, I just find it impossible to believe anyone could consider this movie anything less than superb. Edited by The Departed, Jul 24 2008, 07:43 PM.
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| Djhell | Jul 24 2008, 07:43 PM Post #15 |
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Jail Guard
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Yes, Spiderman (teenage like movie summer spectacle) can surely be compared to depth and complexity of Batman movies. And iron man is moar awesome than Supermans too while we're at it. Are you kidding me? (Hulk was awesome until the last movie too, but they once again aim to please kids with latest ones, and X-men were awesome until the last movie as well until they suffered the same fate. And no it's not stupid statement to make, Marvel movies are aimed at younger audience and have more simple tone to them, therefore I hardly find something coming from their fingers comparable to the movie we're discussiong now. Edited by Djhell, Jul 24 2008, 07:45 PM.
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save your tears for the day when our pain is far behind | |
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| Null | Jul 24 2008, 07:46 PM Post #16 |
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Justify my thug.
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Who was comparing them you pompous condescending arse? I just said it's unfair of you to slate them. And on that note, Superman was fucking awful. |
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| Djhell | Jul 24 2008, 07:52 PM Post #17 |
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Jail Guard
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^^ I rest my case, I have no desire to argue against people who so obviously know nothing about the matter. |
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save your tears for the day when our pain is far behind | |
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| Roy Campbell | Jul 24 2008, 07:53 PM Post #18 |
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Neko Boy
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I see your point, a lot of people do things like that but the reason why I don’t like it as much as everyone else is probably because I’m not a comic book hero fan (Marvel or DC) not because I’m trying to be different. The people who do love the film are fans of the comics. I have never read any Marvel or DC comic in my life (except a bit of spawn) so you can see why it doesn’t appeal to me. If it was say a Final Fantasy film I would be having orgasms over it right now whereas you lot would say it was mediocre, see what I’m getting at?
 Like I said above, I’m not a fan of either so yeah. Also, don’t be ignorant.
I was referring more to Djhell more than anyone else, who anyone can tell is a huge fan boy Edited by Roy Campbell, Jul 24 2008, 07:53 PM.
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| Djhell | Jul 24 2008, 07:56 PM Post #19 |
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Jail Guard
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I haven't seen you reply to ANY of my point I made about movie qualities, so stop being anti, be a man and reply to my post, don't coward behind your own ignorance and call me a "fanboy" while you have said nothing to show us, who believe this is a good movie otherwise. If you can't, don't refer to me in the future pretty please. And FYI I'm not fanboy, so sorry if some of us can actually evaluate movie properly. Edited by Djhell, Jul 24 2008, 07:57 PM.
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save your tears for the day when our pain is far behind | |
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| Null | Jul 24 2008, 08:03 PM Post #20 |
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Justify my thug.
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Are you actually having a laugh? Hahaha what the fuck do you know about my film and comic book knowledge. Even Stevie fucking Wonder can see Superman Returns was terrible. You need to jump off that high horse of yours if you are even considering staying as a member around these forums and speak to members properly, not in your houlier than thou attitude like you instantly know better than anyone else. It's also the BIGGEST internet cop out to say 'I'm not debating with someone doesen't have a clue'. Man up and back up your statements, I'd be happy to debate all night with you and knock you down a few pegs. @Roy, it wasen't so much aimed at you mate. I know what your like anyway - It was because Christian Bale didn't have blonde locks and blue eyes wasen't it? LOL j/k. |
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