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| What's so wrong with Atheism? | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 6 2008, 06:57 AM (1,452 Views) | |
| orionx103 | Oct 6 2008, 06:57 AM Post #1 |
Killer Assist
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I've always wondered about the stigma that surrounds being an atheist. You can tell people of all walks of life and get numerous reactions. I've had people tell me they should punch me in the face for being an atheist, that I really believe in God but I want to rebel, that atheism is ignorance, and, of course, that I'm going to hell. And it's funny, 'cuz some of the same people who have said that have a worse moral code than I do. People feel that atheists are immoral people. There's this belief that the Godless people must not adhere to a moral code, or that without God in our life to lead us in the right direction, we will surely fall into evil things like group sex and murder. There's this sad trend in America that we have to be led by Christians. There's never been an openly atheist president of the United States. Beyond that, I know I'm not the only person on this board to get an e-mail stating that we shouldn't vote for Barack Obama because he's a Muslim. It's not just that our culture is afraid of atheism; we're afraid of anything different. What's more is that most people who claim Christianity do things atheists wouldn't do. Look at these "Christian" politicians who do some ridiculous shit. Getting caught in a bathroom soliciting sex from men, having a lovechild on the side, flirting with boys that help their campaign, banging the women that file their paperwork... And they're not the only ones. The Waco incident, Jamestown, the Holocaust, the KKK— all of them were justified by Christian faith in the past hundred years. That's not even going into the nigh-infinite amount of twisted shit that's been carried out for Islam in the past twenty, or the other numerous atrocious acts that have been carried out under the banner of one religion or another. I feel as though it's another we have to get past as a society. You know, most of us have gotten past racism, gender inequality, and homophobia; I just think it's time we get past religious discrimination. Thoughts? |
 "You're going to spend your whole life preparing to meet the Lord. Boy, you folks are crazy as hell." -Madalyn Murray O'Hare | |
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| iAn | Oct 6 2008, 08:13 AM Post #2 |
Zhen Lei
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I agree. It is often the religious that should be scorned and looked down upon. We atheists are proud of our beliefs in logic and science. We don't succumb to nonsensical supernatural fairy tales. We demand an logical reasoning through science and understanding of how the world works. This is what sets us apart from the religious folks who believe stories that makes no sense written by people who didn't know anything about the world hundreds of years ago. I don't understand why Christians of all people should be looked at for our model of moral standards. It disgusts me. 
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| Johnyman | Oct 6 2008, 08:21 AM Post #3 |
キラ
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I agree with all statements, even being agnostic myself. To me, there's probably ''some'' form of entity that somehow started it all, though not necessarily ''God''. I really do sometimes look down upon those who involve their beliefs in every single situation. In the end though, there's nothing that can be done to stop the discrimination between people's religions and beliefs. 
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| OuterJaccob | Oct 6 2008, 11:17 AM Post #4 |
loves you
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I'm a pretty hardcore God fearer, I believe in very very little science, but to be honest orionx, the Christian politicians you refer to, I don't even consider them to be Christians at all, to be a Christian one must follow the teachings of Christ. I'll openly admit that seven times out of ten, atheists are more logical, and I'm not talking about theories on how the world started, no, I'm a firm believer in creationism and intelligent design, that's where I think Christians have got it right, what I'm talking about is when it comes to culture, politics, lifestyle, etc. atheists usually have a more mature rationale, but I don't think it's because of religion that most Christians are cocks, it's because of how their predecessors have interpreted religion, with each generation (especially in America) Christians become a tiny bit more extreme. Funnily enough America would probably be a lot closer to Jesus if everyone were atheists, because right now a large amount of American Christians just represent the Devil.
Edited by OuterJaccob, Oct 6 2008, 11:21 AM.
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| iAn | Oct 6 2008, 01:31 PM Post #5 |
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Zhen Lei
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The concept of God just doesn't make sense. I mean, God must have no concept of good and evil. Either that or he is apathetic, in which case why is he revered as a God? If he is supposed to be all powerful, then how come God has no power at all? Is God racist? Does God prefer one race more than the other? It would appear so. Why does God allow us fat greedy and corrupt Americans prosper while leaving Africa in a state of permanent civil war, slavery, and genocide? I mean, if he weren't racist then God would have to step in and do something, right? If he is the all loving and all merciful God, why does he allow evil to prevail? For every good deed done today, there will be thousands of evil deeds. What type of God is this? Why worship such an entity that has no apparent values or morals. A God that seemingly enjoys our suffering. How can you believe in that? |
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| OuterJaccob | Oct 6 2008, 02:08 PM Post #6 |
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loves you
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I can't answer any of those questions because I'm not God, I think if I respond any further I'd run the risk of turning this into a WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE IN GOD/WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD/PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD ARE FAGS/PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD GO TO HELL/I'M GONNA KILL YOU BUT NOT BEFORE I REPEAT MYSELF FOR FIFTY PAGES war. And you know, I don't want that to happen. All I'll say is, the concept of God just makes more sense to me. |
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| iAn | Oct 6 2008, 02:11 PM Post #7 |
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Zhen Lei
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Fair enough. Anyways back on topic at hand... Why do people look down on Atheism? |
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| dJdC | Oct 6 2008, 02:35 PM Post #8 |
TEAM SLUG
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To look down on theism you would look down on any religion other then your own. I say a belief is a belief, whether its beleiving or not believing in something. |
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| G.J.V. | Oct 6 2008, 02:35 PM Post #9 |
Where's November?
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I personally don't look down on atheists as if they're immoral. I personally do believe in Jesus and have done for the past 2 years or so (but if I'm honest, I'm crap at being christian), so I obviously believe that atheism is an incorrect belief, but I've always been very tolerant of people's differences. I try to judge everybody on their individual actions rather than grouping them and saying 'all these people are the same', so religious beliefs don't matter too much to me. However I feel that sometimes things can work the opposite way to how you (orionx) said you find things, in that sometimes I feel people's opinions of me lower when they hear I'm not an atheist, although it does feel more of an 'uncool' judgement than an 'immoral' one. @iAn: I respect your opinions, but I can't help feeling that the way you phrased your first post in here was a little unneccesarily harsh. I mean it's one thing to say 'I don't believe in this because I've seen no evidence other than a book that could have been written by anybody', but to say 'We don't succumb to nonsensical supernatural fairy tales' just seems to be overly judgemental. Offtopic: I can't help laughing when I hear that people think Obama is a muslim just because he's not white and has an unusual name XP |
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| The Departed | Oct 6 2008, 02:57 PM Post #10 |
^^Give back my watch dammit!
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Hold on a second orion, Group Sex is evil now?  Elephant balls. I believe in God and always will. I have no problem with Atheism, if you don't believe in God, you don't believe in God. I get that you need rational proof of his existence and that your faith has become non existent in him with how shitty things have gotten. You aren't forcing Atheism on me, so why should I care what you or any other Atheist believes? And more importantly, why should I condemn such a notion? What I think so many people find offensive about atheism, or what so many people look down upon it is the telling them that there is no God. There are all these religions who pray on each other like animals for not having the same beliefs that they do for Gods sake. It's a battle of supremacy for these people to find just which religion is the right religion. Then out of the blue, some lay away group tells them, well our belief is that God does not exist. Then they will do what next? Focus all that hatred for one another, specifically on you. Because people are hardcore about their beliefs sometimes, and to certain extents, really don't like being told their beliefs are wrong, and to say that their belief is of a non existent superbeing, well game over I suppose. My personal belief is that we should all be entitled to our own beliefs and they should be respected. But that is never the case, plus, I don't really think this could fall under the same category as racism or homophobia because you don't have crazy confederates, racist assholes or gay hating assholes beating you to death like we've seen with racism or homophobia. But I will admit, it is unfair that Atheists are treated in that matter of being looked down upon, and that people need to grow up and not have to defend their beliefs to the death like that because you not believing in God isn't hurting anyone, nor does it make you a bad person or mean you will do bad things. Edited by The Departed, Oct 6 2008, 02:59 PM.
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| OuterJaccob | Oct 6 2008, 03:07 PM Post #11 |
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loves you
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Some people are just afraid of being wrong, the unknown is probably what people fear the most, as someone who was raised Muslim, spent my early twenties as an atheist and then became a non denominational Christian, I'd be the first to tell you that confusion over what's real and what's not real is pretty frightening, some people just don't know what to do with all that fear and let it turn into hate for others. You'll see this amongst Christians, Muslims, Jews, even some atheists want so badly to believe that there is no God that they have to reassure themselves by hating on religious people. The best thing to do is keep yourself to yourself and hope others do the same. |
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| iAn | Oct 6 2008, 03:59 PM Post #12 |
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Zhen Lei
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I don't know of any atheist that would do that. All the atheists I know simply don't find the logic behind religion/god. Its much easier for them to just believe good solid science. Its easy for them to not believe in God. They don't want to "badly believe that there is no God" because they know in their hearts that there IS no God!
I used to do that, but now I simply question the concept and reasoning behind the idea of God. I see so many hypocritical ideas and faults behind the concept of God, and so I ask about them in hopes of getting a reasonable answer. But yes, I will admit I am known for being a little too aggressive in questioning one's faith. But all in all, I do think that Religion in general is an all around negative factor as it does not benefit mankind at all. So much death and misery is brought on by religion while nothing good really comes from it. People will often argue that a God/Religion has helped them become a better person or has helped improve an neighborhood or city or helped someone get through a killer disease but thats all just a bunch of bullshit. Its simply your own willingness to do good. Your own moral compass at work. Its not religion/God, but your own willpower and inner strength. Any accomplishments by any religious organization/people wasn't accomplished by God/Religion, but their own inner strength and willingness to do the right thing. |
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| The Protagonist | Oct 6 2008, 04:15 PM Post #13 |
The Ocelot Commander
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My opinion is that if atheists dont believe in God, what can they believe in then? If you can't have spiritual faith, what can you have faith in? |
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| Null | Oct 6 2008, 04:47 PM Post #14 |
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Justify my thug.
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^Logic, rationale, science. You don't have to subscribe to a grand meta narrative to live a content life. Atheism is empowering and should never be looked down upon. |
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| OuterJaccob | Oct 6 2008, 05:01 PM Post #15 |
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loves you
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I hope your logic isn't representative of the entire atheist community, the only thing everyone knows in their hearts, is nothing is 100% certain. There are plenty of people who are confused about what to believe, so they become atheists and convince themselves that it's all made up, I did it myself. Anyway, you already said you don't believe in God, really no reason to say it again if you're just doing it to get peoples' backs up. |
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| iAn | Oct 6 2008, 05:10 PM Post #16 |
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Zhen Lei
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Just because Atheists don't believe in God, it doesn't mean they aren't spiritual. Not the whole "spirits that exist after where dead" spirits, but more in the idea of the Mind Body Spirit aspect. I exercise sharpen my mind and keep my body feeling healthy, and I clean up my apartment often and meditate to cleanse my spirit. But it doesn't mean that we believe in God. We atheists have faith in science, logic, and reasoning. These three aspects are our strongest points. These three aspects are not found anywhere else in Christianity or any other religious belief. We are content because our view of the world is based on hard solid proof. Logically speaking, our view is the one that is most likely to be true as our beliefs are based on time tested theories and laws. We don't need a God to make us feel comfortable or accepted or whatever. EDIT:
Its not that we are confused. Its that we choose to believe in the things that appear the most logical. We don't walk around saying, "Well, I don't know what's the right religion, so heck they are ALL wrong!" In reality we just think that the view that is actually backed up with science, cold hard facts, and theories that stand the test of time should obviously be the only correct view. Why should we choose to believe in something that seems illogical and nonsensical in our hearts? As I said before, we pride ourselves in being the only people who look towards logic and reasoning. Something that should NOT be looked down upon, right?
Everything I have said has had a specific point to it. I have not posted anything that would be considered pointless and irrational. Edited by iAn, Oct 6 2008, 05:17 PM.
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| OuterJaccob | Oct 6 2008, 05:24 PM Post #17 |
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loves you
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I think you misunderstand me, I was not referring to all atheists, just some. I honestly have no problem with atheists, except some of them are a tiny bit self righteous (same with any religion) and some of them refuse to tolerate religion (again, not exclusive to atheists), so really, atheism is just another religion to me, they have faith in science and mathematics, they just believe something different to me. |
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| the_cobbinator | Oct 6 2008, 05:41 PM Post #18 |
Start it.
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Atheism isn't as right or as wrong as any religion, and the perception that it is, to me, is simplistic and hypocritical. Since belief in God is an extraordinarily personal thing*, asking "how can you believe in God?" is equivalent to Christians (or what have you) calling atheists heathens. Both are equally self-righteous, and, as OuterJaccob said (or as an extension, anyway), this is probably the biggest hindrance to the mutual acceptance of atheism and religion. * I'm going to ignore the fact that most people under the age of 18 have no say in their "beliefs" — I'm talking strictly about independent adults here. |
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Time for you and time for me, And time yet for a hundred indecisions, And for a hundred visions and revisions, Before the taking of a toast and tea. | |
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| orionx103 | Oct 6 2008, 05:53 PM Post #19 |
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Killer Assist
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First of all, Ian and OuterJaccob, I appreciate the fact that you saw a dangerous path in the conversation and avoided it. Brownie points, you two.
You know, I don't either. (If you look waaay back in this section's history, I think you'll still find the debates I had when I was a Christian. Scary.) I've been around church long enough to know that there are people who follow Christ and those who fake it. What is upsetting to me is the idea that our nation has to elect Christians and so many of them are faking it.
My father's opinion is: If he's a Christian and the Hindus are right, it won't matter because he'll just be reincarnated. If he's a Hindu and the Christians are right, that's an eternity in hell. It makes me sad that he uses fear to justify his religion.
Atheists don't let abstract beliefs dictate their lives, but it's not as though we have no goals for this life. You know, the Christian's belief is that they'll do good in life, worship Jesus Christ, and get to go to Heaven. That's their goal— Heaven. As an atheist, I have vastly different goals. Of course, I want to live a good life, but not one that is dictated to me through verse. I want to live a contented and fulfilling life. I feel that the best we can really hope for in this life is to do something that will somehow benefit society in some way, be it on the micro or macro level. If someone will remember me for being a genuinely nice guy who did what he could to help his friends and family, I would be pretty happy with that. EDIT
I have to respectfully disagree with this, on the basis that asking one "how can you believe in God?" is not making an assumption about the Christian's character, nor is it labeling them for having a dissenting belief. I don't think you would say asking "why do you believe in God?" is self-righteous, yet is the basically the same question worded differently. I think questioning beliefs is how you get people to think about them. If you ask me why I don't believe in God, I can give you answer after answer after answer. If you ask a Christian why he believes in God, you can get some genuine answers, but you'll get a lot of blank faces and dumb questions. If I can get them to ponder why they believe in God, maybe even question it, I've done about all I can. Edited by orionx103, Oct 6 2008, 06:01 PM.
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"You're going to spend your whole life preparing to meet the Lord. Boy, you folks are crazy as hell." -Madalyn Murray O'Hare | |
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| RossSP | Oct 6 2008, 05:59 PM Post #20 |
Puppet Master
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I've always had a say in my beliefs, saying that, I was raised as an atheist. Personally, I don't believe in any personified deity, but I am willing to accept there is some force influencing events in the universe, not controlling them as such. But I believe atheists are looked down upon by most groups, probably more so in America than here right enough, because religions see them as a threat to their belief system and followers, as corrupt and immoral bastards, simply because they don't follow the Ten Commandments et al. However, atheists can have outstanding moral values based purely on how they perceive the world in a literal way, not as a book two millennia old tells them to. I just wish people of whatever faith, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist whatever, could set aside whatever ignorance and self-righteousness they may have and realise that by the very nature of human existence, people should be allowed to believe what they want to believe without being punished for it. Which brings me onto extremists and zealots... When the time comes XD |
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