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I grew up with Metal Gear. XD; I just had this thought.
Topic Started: Aug 5 2009, 12:37:18 AM (1,243 Views)
Raikiri
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O.K. so you know how metal gear is a bipedal weapon system capable of traveling at speeds of up to 100 mph over any terrain, can carry a huge armament of many different kinds of missiles including Nuclear warheads?

Brace yourselves cause this may blow your minds.

I grew up around "Metal Gear"

See, I am the son of a Navy man. A Submariner to be precise. And our nations Submarines are arguably more practical and definitely more powerful than Metal Gear Rex or Ray.

A United States Nuclear ballistic missile submarine is capable of moving completely undetected anywhere there is water, can carry many different types of surface to land or surface to air missiles including long range missiles that carry nuclear warheads. Each Nuclear missile flies in stages until reaching the outer atmosphere, then the nose cone breaks off and releases up to a dozen indepentantly targeted nuclear warheads. A single Nuclear Missile has enough payload to devastate the entire US coastline. A single ballistic missile submarine has enough firepower to destroy half the world with basically limitless range and can fire totally undetected from any ocean. On top of that a Nuclear submarine can function totally independently for about half a year.

So basically we already have something that performs the same function intended by Metal Gear and I grew up around them constantly cause I spent most of my life on Navy bases.

LoL

Any thoughts?
Edited by Raikiri, Aug 5 2009, 02:06:31 AM.
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rain
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in fiction, its cool. in real life, its just scary. that be my thoughts.
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Raikiri
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rain
Aug 5 2009, 02:10:11 AM
in fiction, its cool. in real life, its just scary. that be my thoughts.

I know right?

One submarine can wipe out half the earth and most countries with nuclear weapons have whole fleets of them.

Just one turns on us and we are all dead.
Edited by Raikiri, Aug 5 2009, 02:25:58 AM.
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Reciprocating Mongoose
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Metal Gear Ray could move way faster than a submarine and Rex's rail gun can launch a nuke completely undetected.
Edited by Reciprocating Mongoose, Aug 5 2009, 03:46:29 AM.
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Raikiri
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Reciprocating Mongoose
Aug 5 2009, 03:46:13 AM
Metal Gear Ray could move way faster than a submarine and Rex's rail gun can launch a nuke completely undetected.

Ray needs a pilot and doesn't carry extra supplies for extended missions.The only limit to how long a Nuclear sub can run is only determined by how much food and supplies it can carry for its crew, like I said they can operate independantly for more than 6 months. Its Nuclear reactor never runs out of power.

Rex cannot do anything undetected because its a land based unit and can easily be traced via satellite. not to mention a modern submarine can land a nuke or ballistic missile on Metal Gear Ray from almost the other side of the world while underwater and undetected. Metal Gear Ray vrs a submarine would be a short fight.

A nuclear ballistic missile submarine can carry more firepower than a Metal Gear, is virtually invisible when it wants to be and can operate solo for an almost an indefinite amount of time.

A submarine is already a better version of metal gear.
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SolidSnake2012
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Meh, I don't understand why the U.S has to over load on their Nukes like this...
They over do it a bit too much...-_-

Really no thoughts on the topic at hand.
I'd have to add though, that it does frighten me thinking that there's that much power around the world.
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monkeymaguire
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The patriot controlled Rays didnt have pilots and no doubt ran on nuclear power. also u can see the payload a RAY has at the end of mgs2. plusss RAY was never really intended as a nuclear threat, more a REX destroyed. But even then it wasnt REALLY intended for that either. I believe RAY was more a guard for Arsenal Gear, and there was a fleet of what.. 25 RAYs or sumthin. Arsenal was pretty useless though, as said at the end of MGS2.. but i think a submerince would have trouble with 25 RAYs on its case
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Tamashi_7
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Err... the main function and idea behind Metal Gear is that it can move over any type of terrain — something a submarine clearly cannot do.

And a submarine isn't a class of Metal Gear since it doesn't have legs (Arsenal Gear isn't technically a Metal Gear, either, for the same reason).

[Moved to MG: General]
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Raikiri
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Aug 5 2009, 10:12:34 PM
Err... the main function and idea behind Metal Gear is that it can move over any type of terrain — something a submarine clearly cannot do.

And a submarine isn't a class of Metal Gear since it doesn't have legs (Arsenal Gear isn't technically a Metal Gear, either, for the same reason).

[Moved to MG: General]

Oh it has to have legs? Ok then, but still a submarine is basically Arsenal Gear (I thought Arsenal was considered a Metal Gear, hence the confusion). But still, Metal Gear can carry and deploy Nuclear Weapons. Metal Gear Ray was developed in response to the Nuclear proliferation threat that Metal Gear posed. If you listen to the Marine leaders speech, he talks more about the threat of Nuclear Armageddon than about the actual Metal Gears. Nuclear Submarines pose the same kind of threat already, but you don't see anyone freaking out over that threat now do we?

There is already a weapon system that poses the same threat as Metal Gear does in the second game. Hideo Kojima didn't need to make crazy shit up to deliver that message. Even though Metal Gear certainly looks cool. A sub serves the same purpose as Metal Gear, thats what I'm getting at XD

And a sub does not need to be able to move over land, it can deliver its payload just fine from the ocean because of the extreme long range of its missiles. Also over 80% of the earth is covered in water deep enough for a submarine.

Basically, there is no practical reason to develop metal gear. Our ballistic Missile subs are better. :)

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The patriot controlled Rays didnt have pilots and no doubt ran on nuclear power. also u can see the payload a RAY has at the end of mgs2. plusss RAY was never really intended as a nuclear threat, more a REX destroyed. But even then it wasnt REALLY intended for that either. I believe RAY was more a guard for Arsenal Gear, and there was a fleet of what.. 25 RAYs or sumthin. Arsenal was pretty useless though, as said at the end of MGS2.. but i think a submerince would have trouble with 25 RAYs on its case


25 Rays vrs 25 Nuclear Submarines favors the Sub. The payload of missiles Rey used at the end of MGS2 where land based missles, meaning none of them could hit underwater targets.

Ray would have only its laser, maby.

But we don't know if that laser can actually cut thru the near indestructable hull of a modern Submarine. Anti Sub tactics don't even try to pierce the hull of a sub. See, anti Sub weapons are designed to very suddenly and dramatically alter the pressure of the water around the sub, causing the hull to de-pressurize which causes the sub to implode.

Ray has no weapons that can do that. A ballistic missile Sub has tracking missiles or torpedoes that CAN be fired underwater at underwater or above water targets.

Edited by Raikiri, Aug 5 2009, 10:43:53 PM.
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Roy
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Rex can fire a stealth missiles, as far as I know, submarines can't fire stealth missiles. Ray can go underwater so it effectively is a submarine anyway. Ray is also way more maneuverable than a sub. And Ray doesn't need a crew.

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Its Nuclear reactor never runs out of power.

Em, of course it runs out of power. Its not magic.

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But we don't know if that laser can actually cut thru the near indestructable hull of a modern Submarine.

Its a frickin laser, its not real.
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TKM
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Roy Campbell
Aug 5 2009, 10:56:17 PM
Rex can fire a stealth missiles, as far as I know, submarines can't fire stealth missiles.
beat me to it, roy. one of the scariest things about metal gear was supposed to be its ability to fire a nuke anywhere in the world undetected. Until, of course, it explodes. in MG1 the explaination they gave was that the nuke was fired as a projectile from a rail gun, without using its own fuel source, therefore having the potential to evade radar detection. Also that helped it avoid a bunch of red tape so that private companies could essentialy create and utilize total nuclear supremecy. THAT's the scary part.

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Its a frickin laser, its not real.

... dude, lasers exist. yes, lasers that can penetrate really tough shit. Not quite on the level we see in most sci-fi, but yeah
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Raikiri
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Roy Campbell
Aug 5 2009, 10:56:17 PM
Rex can fire a stealth missiles, as far as I know, submarines can't fire stealth missiles. Ray can go underwater so it effectively is a submarine anyway. Ray is also way more maneuverable than a sub. And Ray doesn't need a crew.

Em, of course it runs out of power. Its not magic.


For your fist point, yes submarines can fire stealth missiles. Most can even do it from underwater.

On the other hand Ray does have more manuverability. It also needs no crew, fair enough. Still, a sub can fire totally undetected from practically anywhere in the ocean it wants to A submarine will also have a much bigger payload of missiles than a Metal Gear.

Also, a Nuclear Reactor provides nearly limitless power. The life span of a Nuclear reactor is easily 10 times that of people. Many Nuclear reactors aboard sunken submarines will still be active for decades afterwards.

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beat me to it, roy. one of the scariest things about metal gear was supposed to be its ability to fire a nuke anywhere in the world undetected. Until, of course, it explodes. in MG1 the explaination they gave was that the nuke was fired as a projectile from a rail gun, without using its own fuel source, therefore having the potential to evade radar detection. Also that helped it avoid a bunch of red tape so that private companies could essentialy create and utilize total nuclear supremecy. THAT's the scary part.


The Metal Gear ITSELF avoids radar detection. So do Submarines dude.

A ballistic missile submarine can fire a nuclear missile totally undetected from hundreds of yards underwater.
Edited by Raikiri, Aug 6 2009, 12:23:57 AM.
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Roy
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For your fist point, yes submarines can fire stealth missiles. Most can even do it from underwater.

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The Metal Gear ITSELF avoids radar detection. So do Submarines dude.

A ballistic missile submarine can fire a nuclear missile totally undetected from hundreds of yards underwater.

Isn't the actual firing of the missile undetectable for subs, not the actual missile being undetectable? Rex's missiles are undetectable, its not the Metal Gear itself.

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Still, a sub can fire totally undetected from practically anywhere in the ocean it wants to

Metal Gear can fire totally undetected from proactically anywhere on land it wants to.

Quote:
 
A submarine will also have a much bigger payload of missiles than a Metal Gear

You don't know how many missiles a Metal Gear will hold.

Quote:
 
... dude, lasers exist. yes, lasers that can penetrate really tough shit. Not quite on the level we see in most sci-fi, but yeah

And nothing like the one Rex has.
Edited by Roy, Aug 6 2009, 12:36:27 AM.
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Raikiri
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Roy Campbell
Aug 6 2009, 12:35:44 AM

Isn't the actual firing of the missile undetectable for subs, not the actual missile being undetectable? Rex's missiles are undetectable, its not the Metal Gear itself.


There is just about nothing you can do once the Nuclear Missile is in the air anyway. Better for the thing Launching them to be undetectable. Metal Gear can be stopped before launch much easier than a sub can.

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Metal Gear can fire totally undetected from proactically anywhere on land it wants to.


Water covers much more of earth's surface than land does. Also, Metal Gear is a big obvious target when it is moving. Not like a Submarine which can travel over a much greater area, and cover half the world in Nuclear fire.

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You don't know how many missiles a Metal Gear will hold.


Not as much as a sub, a submarine is allot bigger and is built to carry allot of different missiles.

Also, you see the entire payload of Metal Gear Ray. Its just a bunch of small short range missiles.
Edited by Raikiri, Aug 6 2009, 01:04:10 AM.
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Reciprocating Mongoose
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It's about time
Raikiri
Aug 6 2009, 01:02:37 AM
Roy Campbell
Aug 6 2009, 12:35:44 AM



There is just about nothing you can do once the Nuclear Missile is in the air anyway. Better for the thing Launching them to be undetectable. Metal Gear can be stopped before launch much easier than a sub can.



A nuclear missile doesn't move very fast for the distance it has to travel as you say in your comparison between metal gear and Nuclear Submarines. Your also forgetting that RAY could simply ram through the submarines.
Edited by Reciprocating Mongoose, Aug 6 2009, 03:41:37 AM.
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Metal_Girl_Solid
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Raikiri
Aug 5 2009, 12:37:18 AM
O.K. so you know how metal gear is a bipedal weapon system capable of traveling at speeds of up to 100 mph over any terrain, can carry a huge armament of many different kinds of missiles including Nuclear warheads?

Brace yourselves cause this may blow your minds.

I grew up around "Metal Gear"

See, I am the son of a Navy man. A Submariner to be precise. And our nations Submarines are arguably more practical and definitely more powerful than Metal Gear Rex or Ray.

A United States Nuclear ballistic missile submarine is capable of moving completely undetected anywhere there is water, can carry many different types of surface to land or surface to air missiles including long range missiles that carry nuclear warheads. Each Nuclear missile flies in stages until reaching the outer atmosphere, then the nose cone breaks off and releases up to a dozen indepentantly targeted nuclear warheads. A single Nuclear Missile has enough payload to devastate the entire US coastline. A single ballistic missile submarine has enough firepower to destroy half the world with basically limitless range and can fire totally undetected from any ocean. On top of that a Nuclear submarine can function totally independently for about half a year.

So basically we already have something that performs the same function intended by Metal Gear and I grew up around them constantly cause I spent most of my life on Navy bases.

LoL

Any thoughts?
Ehm... good for you?
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Raikiri
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^ :D I just thought it was funny. :D

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A nuclear missile doesn't move very fast for the distance it has to travel as you say in your comparison between metal gear and Nuclear Submarines. Your also forgetting that RAY could simply ram through the submarines.


Do you actually know how fast a Nuclear missile travels?

I don't think Metal Gear Ray would be strong enough or be able to build up the necessary speed to burst thru a submarine hull.
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Metal_Girl_Solid
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A Jackal ate my baby!!!!!
But still, REX looks more badass and impressive than any sub in existance....

That alone would make it better XD
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Orca*
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Raikiri, the RAYs that Arsenal had were guards; essentially anti-ship and submarine weapons controlled by a central AI system. Physical construction and materials allow for far more manueverabiliy than that of a sub, not to mention coordinated 'pack tactics' from a more efficient anf faster computing medium (namely, the formentioned AI system). As well, the RAYs heal their wounds. Probably not designed for long-range engagments, but more than likely able to handle anything that the Navy could throw at it. Conventionally, that is — on that notel, you mentioned ''stealth missiles'', and a submarine being able to launch them. Stealth, huh?

News to me. Last I heard of a stealth missile, it was an Air Force project, and in direct competition to the so-called railgun system(s) that the Navy was formulating. Something about a new battleship design too; Leviathan, I think it was called.
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Raikiri
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Orca*
Aug 6 2009, 07:06:10 AM
Raikiri, the RAYs that Arsenal had were guards; essentially anti-ship and submarine weapons controlled by a central AI system. Physical construction and materials allow for far more manueverabiliy than that of a sub, not to mention coordinated 'pack tactics' from a more efficient anf faster computing medium (namely, the formentioned AI system). As well, the RAYs heal their wounds. Probably not designed for long-range engagments, but more than likely able to handle anything that the Navy could throw at it. Conventionally, that is — on that notel, you mentioned ''stealth missiles'', and a submarine being able to launch them. Stealth, huh?

News to me. Last I heard of a stealth missile, it was an Air Force project, and in direct competition to the so-called railgun system(s) that the Navy was formulating. Something about a new battleship design too; Leviathan, I think it was called.

Metal Gear Ray Was designed to be an anti Metal Gear weapon to protect Arsenal (basically a giant sub) from other metal gears. And this is only because Arsenal is such a big easy target. We see Metal Gear Ray's entire payload in MGS2, no anti sub weapons. Just a buttload of missiles.

I might not know every little thing about Metal Gear, but I know my submarines. I grew up on Navy bases and yes some Ballistic missile subs carry stealth weapons. Stealth being the whole point of a sub.

BTW, battleships are being phased out for the most part. Due to the advancement of aircraft carriers and submarine technology there is little point to having them anymore.


Edited by Raikiri, Aug 6 2009, 07:23:14 AM.
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