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Peace Walker Storyline General Discussion
Topic Started: Oct 10 2009, 05:27:19 PM (4,909 Views)
Helikaon
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I am the night!
Use this topic to discuss the Peace Walker storyline, rather than going off in tangents in other threads.



To start us off:

What do you think this final "Missing Link" between MGS3 and MG/2 is going to be? Obviously it's hinted in the trailer that the missing link is the last push towards total the anti-Patriot/United States Big Boss that we saw in MG 1, MG 2 and MGS 4. But what else is there that will be enough to completely push Naked Snake over the edge and lead to him embracing the Big Boss title? He's already been forced to assassinate his mentor, been betrayed by the unit that he helped found and learned that the assassination of the Boss was a planned event. What is it that's going to send Naked Snake into a HeroicBSOD.
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TOKUGAWA HEAVY INDUSTRIES
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No offense, but I don't know what peace is. Never felt what it's like.
Hmm, I think one thing suggested elsewhere is Paz dying/Big Boss having to kill Paz/etc., but I think it will be something involving Zero that pushes him past the point of no return.
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metalgearhelp
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the missing link: i bet itll be that, big boss is a wanted man in most of the world (due to his anti United States/The Patriots actions that i think we will see in Peace Walker), The Boss could be motivation for him to stay alive (to carry out her wishes etc) and the only way he can stay alive is to try to stop the patiots (as seen in mg/mg2). however, i personally think it will be hard for Kojima Productions to make fans see him as the kind of person that was described by characters in early mgs games (like Liquid in MGS1) then how he becomes the CO of Foxhound to manipulate snake in MG1 is beyond me.

it seems that assassinating the boss will affect him throughout the story, as they say that he still hasnt let her go, from what i got out of the trailer (sorry, i dont have a psp so i didnt play demo) was that it was eating away at him, im looking foward to seeing how that affects his actions in the game!
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Master_Miller123
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The long lost fourth son...Plasma Snake
Some involvement of Grey Fox in the events would be nice..I know kojima had mentioned some more background on Liquid in the game, I just wonder how that's going to be the case given the time line.
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Helikaon
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He hasn't exactly said we're going to get new background, he has said we'll "understand why he turned out like he did" which we already know, so I'm guessing we're going to have some kind of flash-forward (but then again he should be about two now right? I understood stuff at two and being told I was useless by my father would fuck me up at that age) to see Big Boss berating Liquid.
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The Protagonist
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There's two kinds of people in this world, my friend...
The one thing I'd like to know most, is how BB got the same snake-like scar on his chest like The Boss...

Some sort of tribute to his former mentor or was it caused by a sheer accident?
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Orca*
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Most likely, the scar was from the injury that put him into a coma, allowing the LET project to take place unhindered by Big Boss's objections.

Liquid mentioned something about him being injured when 'they brought him in' to participate in the project.
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Helikaon
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Meh, that's the easy way. I prefer to think it's a self inflicted injury, a tribute to The Boss, the story is making a big deal about how he still hasn't let go of the Boss.

Plus the injury should have been present in or at the end of MPO (which it wasn't if I'm remembering correctly), he was cloned in 1971, so unless he got it because of his injuries fighting that stupid Metal Gear missile thing then there really isn't time for him to be knocked out in battle again, you have to factor in the Snake's gestation time (nine months) and how long it took to perfect the cloning method (I'm thinking two months at the least) then you're looking at a year to finish The Terrible Children (1971-1972, Portable Ops occurs at the end of 1970 and finishes in 1971).

I like to think it's a visual sign of Snake's mental degradation, the years of warfare and betrayal are starting to catch up with him.
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Orca*
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So, he cuts himself emo-style? Not buying that. Worse-case scenario, I smell retcon... <_<

I'd shoot for late 1971 (sept.-oct.) being the start of the project, with the births taking place in or around November '72. Always did think Snake was born in November. :P I don't really care about what a logical time for the clonal procedures would be; this's The Patriots we're talking about — they clearly have a horshoe up their collective butt. So, five, six months max. I'd say is what it took.

I've forgotten exactly what the canon date of MPO's ending is — prolly early '71, so that, to me, seems like enough of a window (feb. '71? - aug./sept '71) for him to get right cut up and have the project go down whilst he's bed-ridden or something.
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Helikaon
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Well you've also got to factor in how he would actually get an injury like that, it's pretty much one continuous scar and it doesn't look surgical (I would know, I've got massive surgical scars on my forearm and back), what the hell in the world could cause a scar like that? Shaped pretty much exactly like the Boss' too.
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Orca*
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The similarities are damning, true, but scars can occur naturally in all manner of shapes — I, for example, fell out of a tree as a child, and the tumble left me with a boomerang-shaped scar on my forearm. It's almost symmetrical; a near-perfect 60-degree angle.

So, it happens. Not that I think this is the case, after all, if could've been a field med thing, but — it happens.

All I could think of is Big Boss ran across a few guys who he really pissed off. Some kind of seppuku-esque honor cutting is outside of Big Boss' charcter in my view. I'd find it a hard pill to swallow. Very hard.
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The Protagonist
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There's two kinds of people in this world, my friend...
I don't find it hard to see. It's just like Heli says, how often do you get a scar like that caused by a random fistfight/firefight?

He has all the reasons to cut himself like that, The Boss was more than a mentor to him...
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Orca*
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It's seems completely out of character — we're talking about a psychologically and physically optimized combat soldier who holds her memory as a cherished part of himself. To think he'd betray her teachings of being calm, collected, and aware, and moreover act out on this impulse of emotion by mutilating himself is just wrong to me — he doesn't seem the type, in any manner, to go that far, needlessly.

It has to be some kind of combat wound. Maybe torture; it's in the shape of a 'S', so maybe some bastard thought it'd be funny to carve that letter into him as a twisted honor to his codename of 'Snake'. Or maybe it was an explosion he got caught in? Maybe he was hit by a car?

There's so many ways he could've gotten it, honestly, especially within a context like MGS's universe.

EDIT: Or how about this — the scar disappeared from The Boss's body as a snake; perhaps Big Boss just woke up with it one day.

Paz : "That's some scar... How did you get it?"

Snake: "I... Don't know."

Paz: "You don't know?"

Snake: "I woke up. And there it was."


Pretty thin, but why not? A lot of strange crap goes unexplained in MGS — I wonder if they'll even touch upon it.
Edited by Orca*, Oct 15 2009, 11:27:32 AM.
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Señor Snake
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Oct 15 2009, 11:23:00 AM
Or how about this — the scar disappeared from The Boss's body as a snake; perhaps Big Boss just woke up with it one day.
Kojima will probably go with that.

I'd prefer it if he recieved the scar from torture or someone else. But who knows.
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Helikaon
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I am the night!
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Oct 15 2009, 11:23:00 AM
It's seems completely out of character — we're talking about a psychologically and physically optimized combat soldier who holds her memory as a cherished part of himself. To think he'd betray her teachings of being calm, collected, and aware, and moreover act out on this impulse of emotion by mutilating himself is just wrong to me — he doesn't seem the type, in any manner, to go that far, needlessly.

He also doesn't seem the type of guy to build a Metal Gear and threaten to launch nuclear weapons from it against America, but he's going to do that eventually (if not Metal Gear Solid can kiss my ass, that's one retcon too far).

The only reason I want it to be self-inflicted is because it shows Kojima still realizes that Big Boss has got to become seriously fucked up to attempt his Outer Heaven plan twice, it makes his eventual redemption all the sweeter if we see him become a sick, sadistic and twisted monster, it would mean he feels genuinely sorry for what he did, at the moment he just seems like a kid who got his lunch money taken away from him, his lunch money being The Patriots and the older bully being Zero.

It worked (avoiding the narmtastic "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO/DO NOT WANT!") for Darth Vader when we learned his story.
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No offense, but I don't know what peace is. Never felt what it's like.
The scar being self-inflicted makes a great deal more sense then 'oh, I tripped and fell and I got this scar that looks exactly like The Boss' scar. Pretty wacky!'
The Boss was the integral person in BB's life. It's right there in the trailer, he can't let go of her. Faced with her defection, he still wore her bandanna out of devotion to her. 'Psychologically optimized'? Do you think he really could have walked away from killing his mentor and being a pawn of the US without being severely affected by it? The scar is a testament. It's a physical manifestation of his vow to carry out The Boss' will, and a reflection of how much of a toll his mental state has taken.
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Orca*
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Quote:
 
'Psychologically optimized'? Do you think he really could have walked away from killing his mentor and being a pawn of the US without being severely affected by it? The scar is a testament. It's a physical manifestation of his vow to carry out The Boss' will, and a reflection of how much of a toll his mental state has taken.


Yup, Pyschologically Optimized. :P

I firmly believe that due to her influence, he could cherish her memory in his heart and remain calm about his actions during O:SE — because that's what she trained him to be. What she told him to do, what she praised him for. It'd be his tribute to her to remain as she shaped him — She was his everything, she taught him how to be; as a soldier and as a person it seems. He hasn't yet become his own man — he's still hers. He still sees himself as beneath her.

To suddenly give in to whatever internal strife his actions caused him, to turn his back on the very strength she imparted to him, for his own sense of grief or whatever, is unthinkable to me. It's not like him. It's not in his character to go that far, in my opinion — mutilate himself in some pathetic attempt to be closer to her.

He stopped wearing the bandanna, eventually. He stopped calling himself Snake, eventually. On his last dying breath he expressed his understanding of her will. So we know how he felt.

But I think, it's not The Boss that's driving him in PW — it's his war with ZERO. He's using the strength she gave him, what he believes to be her true will, to drive his campaign against ZERO. He still grieves for her, but he's not interested in replacing her — he still looks up to her. So, to suggest the scar, a reminder of what was probably a critical wound any way you slice it, is self-inflicted, that it is a tribute to his spiritual mother, his greatest love, comes off, to me, as cheap. Especially when he still has her bandanna, I might add.

Of course I can understand it, the notion of him cutting himself, it's logical to consider, but it doesn't fit for me. It doesn't fall in line with the character as I know him.

Agree to disagree, but that's my stance.
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£
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The similarities are damning, true, but scars can occur naturally in all manner of shapes — I, for example, fell out of a tree as a child, and the tumble left me with a boomerang-shaped scar on my forearm. It's almost symmetrical; a near-perfect 60-degree angle.


That's way too convenient for a series such as this. I think the scar is stupid either way, but I highly doubt it would just be coincidentally like The Boss's scar. I think the scar (if self inflicted) shows Big Boss's descent into madness.
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Orca*
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I don't think he ever went mad — he just had his private fight with ZERO.
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Helikaon
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That's his reason, but it still doesn't explain hijacking a Metal Gear and threatening to unleash nuclear Armageddon. Twice.

You can't just say: "Oh he was having a lovers tiff with Zero so anything he did was perfectly sane and acceptable". Defendant lawyers use that reasoning to argue the cases of serial killers ("He was bullied as a child, it's not his fault he butchered twenty people!"). Big Boss still lost the plot, he was driven to it by Zero. In the same way, Zero was pushed to creating the AI because Big Boss betrayed him. His reasons don't change anything, he still did some crazy ass shit.
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