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An Enemy of America
Topic Started: Apr 8 2010, 04:46:14 AM (2,331 Views)
October Rust
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"Saint Lucifer hear me praying to thee...on this eve, of all saints."

Helikaon
Apr 10 2010, 02:31:19 AM
Legendary Sniper
Apr 10 2010, 02:29:45 AM
I'm sure kojima will come up with some reason to explain it.
Yeah, like that vampire guy.

Wait a minute...
Never said it was guarunteed to be a good reason ^_^
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Weedle_McHairybug
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JohnKiller118
Apr 10 2010, 02:09:24 AM
Way to ignore my second point. :angry:
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Big Boss in the original Metal Gear was able to run Outer Heaven in AFRICA, and FOX HOUND in THE UNITED STATES! No one complained then!
Because you obviously missed it.
We know Big Boss had to have had direct contact with Solid Snake immediately prior to Operation Intrude N313, seeing how he was the person who supplied the documented path through the Outer Heaven Fortress that Gray Fox supplied via reconnaissance during Operation Intrude N312. At least, that's what the manual implied. Note, if you have either the original MSX2 manual or the MSXnet.org translated version, I suggest you go to Page 15 (or the Internet equivalent of Page 15) in order to see what I am talking about.

And personally, I always found Big Boss's "true reason" for sending Solid Snake into Outer Heaven fishy in the first place (you know, get killed because he's a rookie.). If that was the case, why did Big Boss even bother allow Solid Snake to continue the mission after Gray Fox was rescued? Heck, why even bother suggest trying to pick up a uniform to bypass inspections in Building 2? If I were Big Boss and I intended for Solid Snake to fail the mission, I'd probably NOT continue to help after Gray Fox was rescued.
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Doakes
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Meh, the way I see it, if a few retcons is the price to pay for a fun and deep story to follow, then so be it. I mean if the Foxhound deal wasn't "retconned out," PW wouldn't exist. I'm prepared to accept that on account of how extraordinary this game looks to be.

As far as story is concerned, as long as I can enjoy what is in PW, I don't mind a retcon or two...or thirty. The key is to not let it drive you away from allowing yourself to enjoy the game. I wonder though, did Foxhound start in 1974 or before hand? I don't recall after MGS3 beyond 1972 and LET.
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Weedle_McHairybug
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BigK
Apr 10 2010, 02:46:31 AM
Meh, the way I see it, if a few retcons is the price to pay for a fun and deep story to follow, then so be it. I mean if the Foxhound deal wasn't "retconned out," PW wouldn't exist. I'm prepared to accept that on account of how extraordinary this game looks to be.

As far as story is concerned, as long as I can enjoy what is in PW, I don't mind a retcon or two...or thirty. The key is to not let it drive you away from allowing yourself to enjoy the game. I wonder though, did Foxhound start in 1974 or before hand? I don't recall after MGS3 beyond 1972 and LET.
Close, but FOXHOUND was actually started around 1971.
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freddiegibbs


a) We'll have to wait and see, but Sor, there's plenty of reasons as to how he's doing it I can come up with on the top of my head.

b) As said before, I'd gladly see some aspects of the original MGs retconned if a remake is to happen. I know you think I'm an "idiot" for saying that Heli, but truth is, the MGs were incontiniuous plot-wise from MGS1. The true series started from MGS1.

c) You need to calm down John. Again.
Edited by freddiegibbs, Apr 10 2010, 02:57:14 AM.
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JohnKiller118
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Granin
Apr 10 2010, 02:55:55 AM
the MGs were incontiniuous plot-wise from MGS1.
I don't see how that is. The original Metal Gear Solid was extremely faithful to the canon of the original games.

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c) You need to calm down John. Again.
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Edited by JohnKiller118, Apr 10 2010, 03:17:05 AM.
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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Helikaon
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Granin
Apr 10 2010, 02:55:55 AM
a) We'll have to wait and see, but Sor, there's plenty of reasons as to how he's doing it I can come up with on the top of my head.

b) As said before, I'd gladly see some aspects of the original MGs retconned if a remake is to happen. I know you think I'm an "idiot" for saying that Heli, but truth is, the MGs were incontiniuous plot-wise from MGS1. The true series started from MGS1.

c) You need to calm down John. Again.
If the retcons are going to come, then I'll accept them in a remake, because remakes are essentially one big retcon. Hell I'd welcome it with open arms.

But not in new games where they aren't necessary, where new continuity could be made that goes along with what is to come. For example to explain the FOXHOUND issue all we need is a comment from Naked about how he was offered the role but turned it down, or that he resigned his commission after the LET project.
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Soriddo Sunēku
Apr 8 2010, 04:46:14 AM
if Big Boss is to be proclaimed as an enemy of the state in PW, how is it that they'd allow him to command the most elite Special Forces unit in their military as we know he will leading up to the events of MG?
thats why were waiting for the game, teehee.
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Soriddo Sunēku
Apr 8 2010, 04:46:14 AM
if Big Boss is to be proclaimed as an enemy of the state in PW, how is it that they'd allow him to command the most elite Special Forces unit in their military as we know he will leading up to the events of MG?
thats why were waiting for the game, teehee.
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freddiegibbs


Exactly, maybe I have too much faith but I'm sure it will be achknowleged. I still want remakes of the MGs though, and then I want the series to be left alone.

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don't see how that is. The original Metal Gear Solid was extremely faithful to the canon of the original games.


The biggy; BB doesn't tell Snake he is his Father.
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Helikaon
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The can of worms. You opened it.

All I'll say on that matter is "Change of subject" and "Do the financial thing Konami, and Kojima, do what most fans want".
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The_Kumatei
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I don't think there are that many retcons as people like to point out. He was running both sides, that's been known since the first "Metal Gear" game, and this is like what, #8? It's not like BB MUST be in both places at once. Zero and Ocelot are in the states. BB had plenty of years in between MPO and MGPW to train some teachers in cqc over there. He has some money and hidden shit already from Gene. This game is a logical step forward from MPO and one step back from MG.

A lot of the "facts" from earlier games are what character (A) thought about character (B), and may or may not have been the truth. Opinions and limited knowledge often skew facts. Especially considering character (B) might not have been telling the truth. This has happened many times in this series.

Oh wait, I forgot, Kojima's quirkyness means he is insane, let's bash him on that, and conclude that his games make no sense, and therefore retcon the earlier versions that they are branching off of. Because we know better.
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Helikaon
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I am the night!
Oh is that why I don't like the retcons, particularly those seen in MGS4?

Nah, it really isn't.

Hell it isn't really the retcons I take issue at, it's what simply wasn't mentioned, or wasn't mentioned in detail.

The reason I don't like them is actually quite simple: They absolutely shit on what has gone before.

Especially in the case of MGS4 and MGS2.

MGS4 was supposed to be (and was marketed as) the sequel to MGS2. It wasn't, instead MGS4 was a sequel to MGS3.
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Wayno
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I don't even try. Why would I?

How he's running Foxhound and MSF at the same time: body doubles.
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Izanagi
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Maye they retcon PO since almost no one liked it.
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Helikaon
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Nah, 'cause that would actually make sense.

It would allow Kojima to start again with Grey Fox, to repair the damage. But nah, lets just leave it.

I just saw the Co Ops trailer for the first time (I think that's what it's called, it certainly banged on about Co Ops. Basically it features Miller being hopelessly optimistic and essentially predicting MGS4, while Boss just stands there, like a badass) and it gave me hope that the title of the topic, and the line from the trailer actually means what it says.
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JohnKiller118
The man in a pickle suit.
Granin
Apr 10 2010, 04:06:31 AM
The biggy; BB doesn't tell Snake he is his Father.
So? He could have told him before Outer Heaven. Despite popular belief, Metal Gear Solid never said Big Boss told Snake about their relationship in Zanzibar Land...

Izanagi
 
Maye they retcon PO since almost no one liked it.
Dude, that's brilliant! Kojima should definitely do that! :)
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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Izanagi
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Maybe at the end of PW BB makes the goverment believe he is the hero who saved the day and travels to america to create FOX HOUND in 74.

That'd be a nice retcon.
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JohnKiller118
The man in a pickle suit.
But how will he become the "hero"?
I guess at the end of the game, Snake destroys Motherbase to trick the US into thinking he's still on their side, but not without secretly moving all operations to South Africa.
Edited by JohnKiller118, Apr 10 2010, 05:13:09 PM.
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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freddiegibbs


That would be good, although I'd like to see it worked around his creation of FH in 71, rather than a retcon. Maybe pretending he was captured there all that time.
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