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KojiPro Report - David Hayter Interview
Topic Started: May 28 2010, 05:00:52 PM (2,082 Views)
freddiegibbs


Then there's some of the posts themselves ...
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Weedle_McHairybug
Hi-Tech Soldier
Quote:
 
Definition of Side-Story:
'A side story in fiction is a form of narrative that occurs alongside established stories set within a fictional universe. As opposed to a prequel, sequel, or interquel, a side story takes place within the same time frame as an existing work.
Side stories are common in epic type series, especially war oriented series where it is possible to tell many stories from many different points of view. Early examples of a side story are found in the ancient Indian epics Mahabharata and Ramayana, which contained numerous side stories which were loosely related to the main story of those epics. It is typical for side stories to be self contained, small scale events, insignificant in the bigger picture. They tend to be one shot stories with a beginning, middle, and end and focus heavily on character drama while the major action occurs mostly in the background.
A side story is not quite the same as a spin-off. A spin-off takes already known characters, usually supporting or background characters and involves them in a story or series which highlights them and further develops their character. The series' true main characters may make cameo appearances or be referred to in dialogue. Side stories, rather, focus on a completely new set of characters who have no history and typically no connections to the existing main characters. The settings for side stories are intentionally away from the major events that the main characters are known to be participating in'

MGS4 is not a side story so DON'T make ridiculus OTT claims with no grounding. This is the first pretty intellectual forum on MGS i've visited and tbh, stupid claims will get you beaten into the ground. No more argument.


If that's the actual definition of a side story, then I take my statement back. However, I might as well point out that that definition also would make Portable Ops not a sidestory either. You said it has to take place in the same time period as an established work. Portable Ops does not really take place in the same time period as Metal Gear Solid 3, as that game took place in 1964, whileas Portable Ops was in 1970-1971. Now, if Portable Ops took place in 1964, and did not involve Big Boss, or Roy Campbell, or any of the MGS3 characters at all, then yes, THAT would be a side story. On that note, Big Boss and Roy Campbell (characters who were already well established in the timeline and thus aren't "new"), as well as Frank Jaegar, the cast from MGS3, and Raikov, were in this game, and also had major roles. To call Portable Ops a "side game" is as bad as calling Metal Gear Solid 4 a "side game" I'm only saying this because some people are calling Portable Ops a side game, and not a real main game, even though it is impossible for it to be a Side Game, especially under that definition.

I tried to make my point, and I've been corrected, so I'll leave now. Also, I'll delete a previous edit, so as to not generate confusion.
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DaSeala
Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
gotta admit the flame wars on here are pretty muted.

Someone get thick and let rip, i gotta mah popcorn. :D

EDIT: I never said MPO was a side-story and its never officially labeled as a side-story. Many few would view it as one though and its not hard to see why. Relative to the whole saga Portable Ops has little effect on the overall story arc and explains only a few minor plot details, but they are less revelations and more minor details. The Cast is largely new and unexplored through the rest of the series. The events are rarely directly addressed by anyone in any of the other games and Big Boss' character dosn't really go through much character development. So you can see how it would be mistaken or viewed in such a light.
Edited by DaSeala, May 31 2010, 11:31:27 PM.
Quote:
 
Weedle; inability to comprehend anything but the literal
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JohnKiller118
The man in a pickle suit.
Kojima himself says it's a side-story, so it's a side-story.

MGS4 was hyped as the big ending to Solid Snake's story, and Kojima has said nothing on the contrary, so it's NOT a side story.
Edited by JohnKiller118, May 31 2010, 11:36:51 PM.
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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DaSeala
Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
JohnKiller118
May 31 2010, 11:31:08 PM
Kojima himself says it's a side-story, so it's a side-story.

MGS4 was hyped as the big ending to Solid Snake's story, and Kojima has said nothing on the contrary, so it's NOT a side story.

Seriously, just accept that you're WRONG, okay?!
Goddamn you could be less forceful, if someone makes a bad point, it should be easy to make a relatively easy to understand counter-point to end an argument swiftly with no need for drama. He might be a younger member of the forum or mis understood a few things but he dosnt deserve OTT put-downs.
Quote:
 
Weedle; inability to comprehend anything but the literal
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JohnKiller118
The man in a pickle suit.
MrDaseala
May 31 2010, 11:34:39 PM
Goddamn you could be less forceful, if someone makes a bad point, it should be easy to make a relatively easy to understand counter-point to end an argument swiftly with no need for drama. He might be a younger member of the forum or mis understood a few things but he dosnt deserve OTT put-downs.
He's 20.
That's 5 years older than I am.

But you're right.
Edited by JohnKiller118, May 31 2010, 11:43:33 PM.
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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freddiegibbs


JohnKiller118
May 31 2010, 11:36:35 PM
MrDaseala
May 31 2010, 11:34:39 PM
Goddamn you could be less forceful, if someone makes a bad point, it should be easy to make a relatively easy to understand counter-point to end an argument swiftly with no need for drama. He might be a younger member of the forum or mis understood a few things but he dosnt deserve OTT put-downs.
He's 20.
That's 5 years older than I am.

But you're right.
Believe me, it shows.
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Weedle_McHairybug
Hi-Tech Soldier
MrDaseala
May 31 2010, 11:25:42 PM
gotta admit the flame wars on here are pretty muted.

Someone get thick and let rip, i gotta mah popcorn. :D

EDIT: I never said MPO was a side-story and its never officially labeled as a side-story. Many few would view it as one though and its not hard to see why. Relative to the whole saga Portable Ops has little effect on the overall story arc and explains only a few minor plot details, but they are less revelations and more minor details. The Cast is largely new and unexplored through the rest of the series. The events are rarely directly addressed by anyone in any of the other games and Big Boss' character dosn't really go through much character development. So you can see how it would be mistaken or viewed in such a light.
I know you didn't. That was more directed to some of the members on this board in general, those who actually claimed that it was a side story, namely Johnkiller118.

Also, Kojima only mentioned that it was the sequel to Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, he didn't actually say that Portable Ops was a spinoff. I read the IGN article that detailed the TGS2009 public announcement, and at one point even made sure to mention it on the Metal Gear Wiki detailing the whole announcement, so I know. The only thing that would even suggest that he felt that it was a spinoff was the fact that he neglected to mention it, and even that was more to generate hype. I do recall that Resident Evil 5 was given similar hype by its producer, claiming that Resident Evil 5 was supposed to be the true sequel to Resident Evil 1. I know I read it somewhere.

EDIT: Ok, you win, but then again, he also said the exact same thing about Portable Ops being nothing like Acid or the DGNs when it was first announced. I won't even be surprised if, when and if the next Metal Gear Solid game in the Big Boss saga comes out (as he implied at TGS2009 that he plans to make at least one more Big Boss game other than Peace Walker), he even says that it's nothing like Portable Ops and Peace Walker. Besides, that was probably intended to generate hype, especially seeing how that was worded in a very similar nature to when he announced Portable Ops at the E3 convention, so even that isn't true confirmation as to whether that is a sidegame or a main game. Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if he said similar things about Metal Gear Solid 1 and Metal Gear Solid 2, and onwards whenever he is involved with creating a new game.
Edited by Weedle_McHairybug, May 31 2010, 11:45:31 PM.
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JohnKiller118
The man in a pickle suit.
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2010/01/29/mgs-peace-walker-delayed-totally-mgs5/
Quote:
 
“Since it is on PSP, I did not officially number it. But the game design, story, number of staff and budget — you can say that this is a big project. It would’ve been number 5. It’s not a side story or a spin-off. It’s not like Portable Ops or Acid. I am deeply involved and this is the next Metal Gear.”
Edited by JohnKiller118, May 31 2010, 11:48:45 PM.
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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Weedle_McHairybug
Hi-Tech Soldier
Not that I blame you for not seeing the edit when you posted it, as it was made after you posted your post, but I did edit my original post admitting some defeat when I read the article.
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JohnKiller118
The man in a pickle suit.
Quote:
 
EDIT: Ok, you win, but then again, he also said the exact same thing about Portable Ops being nothing like Acid or the DGNs when it was first announced. I won't even be surprised if, when and if the next Metal Gear Solid game in the Big Boss saga comes out (as he implied at TGS2009 that he plans to make at least one more Big Boss game other than Peace Walker), he even says that it's nothing like Portable Ops and Peace Walker. Besides, that was probably intended to generate hype, especially seeing how that was worded in a very similar nature to when he announced Portable Ops at the E3 convention, so even that isn't true confirmation as to whether that is a sidegame or a main game. Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if he said similar things about Metal Gear Solid 1 and Metal Gear Solid 2, and onwards whenever he is involved with creating a new game.
OOOOOR... He ONLY makes MPO a side story, and everything else is a main game.
It's not a "logic." It's not an "equality" situation. It's Kojima flat out saying "MPO is a side story", and leaving it at that.

I'm sorry, but it's not that hard to understand.
Edited by JohnKiller118, May 31 2010, 11:50:31 PM.
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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Weedle_McHairybug
Hi-Tech Soldier
JohnKiller118
May 31 2010, 11:48:55 PM
Quote:
 
EDIT: Ok, you win, but then again, he also said the exact same thing about Portable Ops being nothing like Acid or the DGNs when it was first announced. I won't even be surprised if, when and if the next Metal Gear Solid game in the Big Boss saga comes out (as he implied at TGS2009 that he plans to make at least one more Big Boss game other than Peace Walker), he even says that it's nothing like Portable Ops and Peace Walker. Besides, that was probably intended to generate hype, especially seeing how that was worded in a very similar nature to when he announced Portable Ops at the E3 convention, so even that isn't true confirmation as to whether that is a sidegame or a main game. Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised if he said similar things about Metal Gear Solid 1 and Metal Gear Solid 2, and onwards whenever he is involved with creating a new game.
OOOOOR... He ONLY makes MPO a side story, and everything else is a main game.
It's not a "logic." It's not an "equality" situation. It's Kojima flat out saying "MPO is a side story", and leaving it at that.

I'm sorry, but it's not that hard to understand.
Actually, it is, especially going by definitions. In order for something to truly be a "sidestory" it has to match at least 51% of the definition, if not 100%.

And anyways, why do you cling onto Kojima's word when you yourself state that you only follow what's in the game, and you don't take anything outside of the games seriously (like when I cited that timeline having Portable Ops, you stated that that was not in the games, so you don't follow it)? I know if I had that same belief as you did, I'd even ignore Kojima's word.

Besides, assuming that Kojima barely being involved in Portable Ops' development is indeed true, then he also cannot even hint at ANYTHING in regards to Portable Ops and Metal Gear Solid 4's ties in development, not even for advertizement purposes, since with Portable Ops, he really doesn't have that power (if he's not directly involved in its creation, then he doesn't really have the authority or really any say as to what Portable Ops is and what isn't.). I know if I were Hideo Kojima, and I was barely involved in Portable Ops, I certainly wouldn't have said anything about Portable Ops's development or how it ties into Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, and if anyone even asks, I'd just say "why ask me? You really should ask the writers and executive director of Portable Ops since they are far more in a position in regards to how it stands than I do as I'm barely even involved in Portable Ops's development."
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DaSeala
Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
This is gone into such a stupidly grey area that no one cares about. Does it really matter wether its officially considered a side story? No, its still canon. And by the definition I supplied, MPO wouldn't be considered a side story by that definition, it would be part of the main saga. Either way its a pointlessly grey area that serves no purpose for people to try flash their knowledge of the series and its creators and production etc.

Kojima isn't God, just because he says something, dosn't mean that literally, word for word everything he says is technically correct. Even if it is his series. Hypotheically speaking if he turned around MGS4 WAS a side-story he'd be wrong wouldn't he? By definition. Because thats what definitions are there for. Stupid argument is stupid. MPO by definition is not a side story, but even that definition is fuzzy, so who the fuck cares when its canon anyway.

/voice of reason.
Quote:
 
Weedle; inability to comprehend anything but the literal
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Weedle_McHairybug
Hi-Tech Soldier
MrDaseala
Jun 1 2010, 12:00:52 AM
This is gone into such a stupidly grey area that no one cares about. Does it really matter wether its officially considered a side story? No, its still canon. And by the definition I supplied, MPO wouldn't be considered a side story by that definition, it would be part of the main saga. Either way its a pointlessly grey area that serves no purpose for people to try flash their knowledge of the series and its creators and production etc.

Kojima isn't God, just because he says something, dosn't mean that literally, word for word everything he says is technically correct. Even if it is his series. Hypotheically speaking if he turned around MGS4 WAS a side-story he'd be wrong wouldn't he? By definition. Because thats what definitions are there for. Stupid argument is stupid. MPO by definition is not a side story, but even that definition is fuzzy, so who the fuck cares when its canon anyway.

/voice of reason.
Thank you. Finally, someone can actually explain it for everyone. I'll take my leave now. Thanks again for your help.
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CardCaptorDeadpool
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One Fucking Psycho
Im discombobulated about how this thread turned a huge argument over MPO. Its really not that big a deal.
Posted Image
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Weedle_McHairybug
Hi-Tech Soldier
Yes, let's get it back to the David Hayter interview.
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TwistedSnake
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Soldier without borders.
Ok, after reading all that, I'll go back to why I liked the interview.

One thing Hayter said that was endearing to me when he was talking about Snake/Big Boss and just heroes in general is that it's not about how big a punch a hero can throw, it's how big of a punch he can take, and then get back up from and continue to kick ass. It's the struggle to survive. It's a pretty simple statement, but a very true one.
Spoiler: click to toggle
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JohnKiller118
The man in a pickle suit.
TwistedSnake
Jun 1 2010, 05:24:18 PM
One thing Hayter said that was endearing to me when he was talking about Snake/Big Boss and just heroes in general
:implies Big Boss is a hero:
Quote:
 
it's not about how big a punch a hero can throw, it's how big of a punch he can take, and then get back up from and continue to kick ass. It's the struggle to survive.
Have you ever seen "Rocky Balboa"?
Edited by JohnKiller118, Jun 1 2010, 05:51:13 PM.
I'm sorry for being a cunt.
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Tom Cruise
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Ultimate
lol at this thread.

its just a game giz.


now fighting games, those are sers bizniz =l
DEAD CELL 4 LIFE 4 EVER
R.I.P. GARY

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DaSeala
Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
NickRocks
Jun 1 2010, 08:03:47 PM
lol at this thread.

its just a game giz.
Thats a pretty stupid shallow statement when games as a medium is trying to become more accepted into mainstream culture. For that its got to take a serious look at itself and games need to be dissected to try and prove to the world they themselves are not shallow and are more than 'just games' and can hold messages and carry themes in the same league as books and movies. If you don't give a shit it's fine but then we don't really care if you don't so dont bother posting thank you very much.
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Weedle; inability to comprehend anything but the literal
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