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| Do you think that Peace Walker should of had characters from MGS3 and PO? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 31 2010, 08:16:34 AM (2,796 Views) | |
| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 2 2010, 12:56:11 AM Post #21 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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Come to think of it, DID Sokolov actually create RAXA/ICBMG? I mean, I know he was involved in its development, but it seemed more likely that he would have been involved in the rocket that launched it into space and not the actual RAXA/ICBMG itself. |
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| BusterHarvey | Aug 2 2010, 10:32:28 AM Post #22 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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I think it was best the characters from MGS3/PO didn't make an appearance, it makes it feel more realistic to me. |
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| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 2 2010, 03:22:26 PM Post #23 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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Well, couldn't they at least receive a mention, at least without actually appearing? EVA did without actually appearing. Besides, they still need to address the issue on Python's canonical fate, especially considering how that hack of a Metal Gear Solid 4 Database failed to actually address the issue. |
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| DaSeala | Aug 2 2010, 10:09:01 PM Post #24 |
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Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
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Isn't really that important, that was a player decision. Just like up until MGS4, we were never sure of meryl's fate. i actually thought myself Metal Gear RAXA was one of the best concepts in the series, next to the shagohod and REX, but like most things in MPO, it was badly handled what with Ursula controlling it. |
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| Solid Gally | Aug 2 2010, 10:29:22 PM Post #25 |
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M.I.A
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True. But as far as the series as a whole goes, we aren't ever informed of him being a member of Outer Heaven (or MSF). Rather, we're told that by the time of Metal Gear 1, Fox is oblivious to the fact that Big Boss controls Outer Heaven (why else would him and Snake get along so well in MG1?) The point being, that Gray Fox didn't need to be in PW (especially after being retconned to death in MPO). He was recruited into FOXHOUND in MPO. That part is done. Where we stand chronologically right now (after PW); we have to wait until MG2 for him to join Big Boss' side as a terrorist/war criminal. Until then, he's a FOXHOUND grunt. Unless of course, that gets retconned too. In short, they should just leave Gray Fox alone for now after the debacle that was MPO. -And they did with PW. Which is why Mr.Kojima gets a thumbs up from me.
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| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 3 2010, 12:37:26 AM Post #26 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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To be fair, RAXA was a test model, so it wasn't going to fully live up to your expectations, anyways. Heck, if Metal Gear was not the first game released, then you probably would have felt some sense of anticlimaticness about "defeating" Metal Gear as it wasn't even a threat that moment, and wasn't even a boss fight. As for the whole player decision thing, I might as well point out that "In the Darkness of Shadow Moses" actually implied that Meryl's survival was canon, so Metal Gear Solid 4 wasn't entirely responsible for confirming her fate. All MGS4 really did was give her an appearance to make the confirmation final, that's all. In fact, the only thing about Meryl that MGS4 actually confirmed, period (as in, regardless of whether it was the first or final confirmation) was that Meryl was actually Campbell's daughter (since that was actually only stated in the Meryl's Death situation), and even that was confirmed shortly before MGS4's release through MGS1 Novelization. And it's still annoying that they'd not reveal Python's fate even IF it was just player's decision. Heck, why not make it further ambiguous that Johnny Sasaki survived in MGS2 due to the fact that the player in MGS1 actually had the option of killing Sasaki without any consequence whatsoever. To Solid Gally, while I won't go so far as to say Gray Fox was not involved in Outer Heaven (for all we know, he may have known, and maybe even allowed himself to get captured), I do agree in that regard, especially considering that we still have the Mozambician War of Independence and Gray Fox fighting in that war against FREMILO, which doesn't even take place until after 1974. Edited by Weedle_McHairybug, Aug 3 2010, 12:39:54 AM.
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| RandomHajile | Aug 3 2010, 06:40:01 AM Post #27 |
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Light Infantry
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First I was like " " But then I was like " " Sokolov built the Shagohod, which was probably the most relatively formidable "Metal Gear". Considering it had to be burned, split in two, shot at, then struck by lightning to be destroyed. He also designed RAXA/ICBMG, technically the first operational bipedal Metal Gear. |
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| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 3 2010, 04:07:29 PM Post #28 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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Technically, the Shagohod isn't a metal gear, seeing how it was an entirely separate development from it. |
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| DaSeala | Aug 3 2010, 06:38:55 PM Post #29 |
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Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
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Shall we say nuclear platform just to be needlessly specific
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| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 3 2010, 06:51:54 PM Post #30 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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Hey, in-canon, it was even specified to not be a Metal Gear (since they established that Granin was the one who created the Metal Gear menace in the first place), so the specifics actually are needed. |
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| DaSeala | Aug 3 2010, 07:13:12 PM Post #31 |
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Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
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Good lord, he said the Shagohod was the most 'relatively formidable Metal Gear'. Would it have made any difference if he said, 'relatively formidable Nuclear Platform.' No. So your being needlessly specific. |
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| Solid Gally | Aug 3 2010, 10:51:53 PM Post #32 |
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Its hard for me to get my point across without writing an essay (which takes too much effort). However good ol' Ravi Singh on the Snake Soup already has done, of which pretty much echoes my sentiments. http://thesnakesoup.org/?section=myths&content=null ^That is why I think that Gray Fox should be left alone for now. The fact is, Portable Ops did nothing to Gray Fox's story other than make a completely disaster of it. For random example, everybody here keeps mentioning the 'Mozambican War'. But when you take a look at Portable Ops, its pretty impossible to add that to his story ark now (according to Portable Ops, Gray Fox's time in Mozambique happened before MPO). Check that article out and you'll see what I mean. |
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| Master_Miller123 | Aug 3 2010, 11:41:20 PM Post #33 |
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The long lost fourth son...Plasma Snake
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PW was made in an effort to undue to damage that PO did to the series,both from a story and reputation standpoint. So I'm not surprised to see that they had none of the PO cast back in any way shape or form. And..I'm going to predict that some of the other characters that played a role in 3 and beyond will have more of a part in the squeal..e.g., EVA, Null/Grey Fox..maybe Cambell Edited by Master_Miller123, Aug 3 2010, 11:44:53 PM.
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| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 3 2010, 11:51:05 PM Post #34 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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There are actually two Mozambician wars. There was the Mozambician War of Independence, which is the one Portable Ops mentioned, and there was the Mozambician Civil War, which is the one Gray Fox mentioned in MG2. Other than time placements, Naked Snake explicitly mentioned that Gray Fox/Null killed some Government Agents with a single knife while in FREMILO, which would only have been possible if it was in the Mozambician War of Independence (as the war was to drive out the Portugese from Mozambique), and after the war, either FREMILO became the ruling body of Mozambique or there was never a ruling body, as shortly afterwards, the Mozambician Civil War happened, which is when RENAMO was formed. Plus, Campbell mentioned that Null was a mess both physically and mentally, and hints that he may not be able to live a normal life after that, which may explain why he was participating a lot in wars.
They would have had to remove MGS4 from the timeline as well in order to fix up problems that MPO caused, seeing how it included elements of MPO into its story, including The Boss being set up. Edited by Weedle_McHairybug, Aug 3 2010, 11:51:36 PM.
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| DaSeala | Aug 4 2010, 01:40:27 PM Post #35 |
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Chip on his shoulder and shit for brains
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I want to see you discuss that with that Ravi Singh whoever-the-fuck he is. |
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| Jade Wolf | Aug 5 2010, 05:08:28 AM Post #36 |
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Light Infantry
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No need for me to say it, he already did. |
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| Solid Gally | Aug 6 2010, 03:44:53 PM Post #37 |
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M.I.A
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If you're not familiar with the legendary Snake Soup, then you can't be all that familiar with MGS. EDIT: I say that half-joking btw. I'm not trying to sound (or be) elitist. But Snake Soup has always been pretty renowned for its humourous (yet intriguing and well written) articles. They've got a pretty huge forum over there, too (although their board rules are a little different to the rules here lol). Ravi Singh is the guy who runs the site. I'd suggest reading some of his articles. They're always pretty funny and he often makes very good points. Edited by Solid Gally, Aug 6 2010, 03:47:42 PM.
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| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 6 2010, 03:59:30 PM Post #38 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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I actually read some of his articles, and some of them didn't seem to connect. For one thing, his previous article neglected to mention some facts in the account of what happened between Zero and Big Boss in MGS4 were oddly unaddressed or even outright contradicted or at the very least arguably so (such as the fact that Big Boss seemed unaware about Cipher's existance despite helping found them, and the intro for the game implying that Big Boss left the United States and never returned. Yes, I know that it was intended to be a direct sequel to Snake Eater, but they could have easily just stated briefly that he returned briefly to form a unit and later left again after disagreeing with his superiors, and not just say "After the ceremony, however, Snake disappeared." as if Big Boss left the country without ever returning by 1974.), and the article also failed to remember that Metal Gear Solid 4 itself also showed stills from MPO (by that, I mean the game itself, not the database). Edited by Weedle_McHairybug, Aug 6 2010, 04:02:59 PM.
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| Solid Gally | Aug 6 2010, 04:18:38 PM Post #39 |
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M.I.A
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Hey, I never said that the guy was right about everything, did I?Mate, PW was what neglected to address what we find out about Zero and Big Boss in MGS4. (PW Spoiler:) Spoiler: click to toggle It was another retcon, in case you didn't notice.Anyway this topic is about characters from MPO appearing in Peace Walker (or not appearing, in that case). I merely linked somebody to a random article which echoed my sentiments about Gray Fox. -Not Snake Soup, not Ravi Singh. So if we can er.... get back on topic...? |
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| Weedle_McHairybug | Aug 6 2010, 04:31:05 PM Post #40 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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Except Big Boss didn't even recognize "Cipher" when Paz first mentioned it. Considering how Big Boss helped found The Patriots in the first place, you'd think that he'd at least have some idea of putting two and two together on who they were. I know I would just by deductive reasoning: Cipher sent an agent to take back ZEKE with the intention of doing something in regards to me, they seem to know me pretty well. Let me guess, Patriots, right? In Metal Gear Solid 4, EVA gave this exchange about how The Patriots were formed, and eventually what happened with Big Boss and Zero going their separate ways.
But yeah, you're right, we should stop and go back on topic. |
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