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What good has Atheism done anyone?
Topic Started: May 16 2011, 11:49:54 PM (9,005 Views)
Jaron
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This is what debates is about.
Simple and straight-forward: What good has Atheism done anyone? You? The guy you know down the street? The woman at the grocery?

I have a couple possibilities: A few less people die because they got treatment by medicine instead of prayer. Twentieth century porn was revolutionized by atheists. Aaaand that's about it. I'm sure I could think of something else if I thought longer about it.

Can we stick on topic this time?

JlAyRnOnN


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A
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prof_crunchy
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I could mention lots of cool everyday things that i consider have been made more accepted ie. drinking, pre-marital sex, drugs (if you so wish) etc etc.

But to go more deeply, i guess atheism give people the realisation that only they control what happens in their life, not a god, not a religious teaching, it gives people the freedom and respect they deserve to choose how to live their life, by their own morals, and no one elses.
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Sword
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Kaz... I'm already half Xehanort

Jaron
May 16 2011, 11:49:54 PM
Can we stick on topic this time?
When dealing with atheism (considering the word only exists as a response to theism) I doubt it lol.

Anyway, I'd say that atheism does good in the sense that following certain religious doctrines can be bad. Hence not following them would be good.
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G.J.V.
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DC For Life

Freedom.

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GARY TOWN IS FOREVER!


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misanthrope
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Heavily-Armed Trooper
I for one take comfort in the fact that nothing matters more than right here, right now, and me.
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"Every time I almost die, I feel so alive- why would I ever want to be more careful?"
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DLFLux
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I'm going to crush you, and throw you into the wind!
Was brought up as a Catholic, had to attend Church every Saturday night or Sunday morning growing up, until I was like 13 or something. During that time I was only going off what I was told, until it came to the stage where I was mature enough to make up my own mind and put my foot down about it.

I can be kind to others, help people less fortunate, live by certain morals without them being dictated, and/or chosen for me. I don't need religion to tell me I should be this, I can make up my own mind.

I understand that religion can bring hope and such like, but for me, being an aetheist, I can accept that death is the end, and it's that acceptence that's taken away the fear. Obviously I don't want to die, and I'd shit a brick if someone had a gun to my head, but you get what I mean.

Anyways, I've lost track of where I was going to with this, so better end this post now.
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Roy
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I wont deny that I am a bad boy =)
I dare say gay right, womens rights, science and all it has brought us (ease of life, knowledge about our world, medicine, that computer in front of you), peace and fuck load more - pretty much everything good in the world - as I suspect your reason for creating this thread was to wait for someone to say something akin to that as you already had a response in your head and you're waiting for someone to unleash it on. But what the hey, better discussion than none.

Have at you, Snake.
Edited by Roy, May 17 2011, 01:09:20 AM.
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DLFLux
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I'm going to crush you, and throw you into the wind!
Spread AIDS.
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Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/DLFLux
......Guess that's the difference in friends and associates,
I done been broke, I done been through the motions
I don't pay no attention to birds,
I use my scope and tend to the vultures.....


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Roy
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I wont deny that I am a bad boy =)
DLFLux
May 17 2011, 01:22:04 AM
Spread AIDS
I do hope you don't mean atheism hasnt spread AIDS
Edited by Roy, May 17 2011, 01:27:46 AM.
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Sword
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Kaz... I'm already half Xehanort

inb4 Weedle_McHairybug
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DLFLux
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Roy Campbell
May 17 2011, 01:27:34 AM
DLFLux
May 17 2011, 01:22:04 AM
Spread AIDS
I do hope you don't mean atheism hasnt spread AIDS
Then you should be relieved.
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......Guess that's the difference in friends and associates,
I done been broke, I done been through the motions
I don't pay no attention to birds,
I use my scope and tend to the vultures.....


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Weedle_McHairybug
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This probably isn't a good idea, but...

Honestly, I really can't think of anything good happening with Atheism. After all, considering the fact that I can name two, if not three truly terrible dictators in history were atheists, or at the very least agnostic, with an incredibly high body count to boot in terms of atrocities and deaths during their reign, as well as atheism being a core belief of the former Soviet Union, and how many christians, or heck, most religious peoples in the Eastern Bloc were persecuted, forcing us to practice religion in total secrecy, with even their sneaking into a church to pray carrying the risk of being caught by the KGB, as my uncle experienced when he went on a trip to the Soviet Union, and what one of my priests, a Polish Catholic, had to experience throughout his youth, I really can't find anything redeemable or any good that atheism has done. Plus, to use a real-life example, we have Sweden persecuting various homeschoolers, making their lives a living heck for no other reason than due to those homeschoolers being christian. Sweden is a country that declared itself atheist recently, BTW, and... well, [url="http://www.crisismagazine.com/2011/swedens-big-government-utopia-unmasked"]this article[/url] would show just how terrifying the situation is in Sweden right now. Heck, Karl Marx was also indirectly responsible for the appalling count of atrocities that resulted within the Soviet Union and in China, maybe even in Sweden, considering the fact that he was the one who founded the Communist ideology, and one of the tenants of Communism was even "Religion is an opiate of the masses", meaning their main belief system is automatically Atheistic. You can try to tell me otherwise, but it would be fruitless, as the amount of horrific behaviors within Atheism have already convinced me it's not good. While I admit that we Christians also had our failings, the fact that Atheism has repeatedly shown itself to have done horrendous things, many of which sanctioned (which, BTW, few, if any, of the terrible actions committed by Catholicism, such as the mass murders of Jews during the Crusades, for example, were actually sanctioned by the Church, and in fact many of the people responsible for the massacre were actually told off by the Church) makes Atheism worse.

As for some of the arguements about how Atheists helped create science, that's a lie. Science was actually developed by Catholics, and was eventually improved upon. Heck, a monk was the one who discovered cells, and even named them. Atheists may have helped improve upon science, but they in no way was the one who actually created it. Heck, quite a few of our university systems were created by Catholics and christians, and I know that at least some monks contributed to medicine a bit, at least (Romeo and Juliet had a friar who was developing various medicines as a pretty major character.). Unless I'm mistaken, one of the reasons why Christianity was even successful in the first place is because it appealed to women who, back in Rome, were actually treated as low class citizens. Plus, unless I am mistaken, the Seneca Women's Rights council was christian. Heck, Susan B. Anthony, a feminist during the Seneca era, was a christian, to the extent that she actually denounced Abortion. Anyways, I don't expect you to agree with me, but at least try to consider these things. Even if I don't agree with some of the current things the Church has done, I'd never abandon it, since I know far too well that in order to become Atheist, I will inevitably become a monster with an immense body count, since to cast aside Christianity, or any religious belief system, will result in casting out a moral code to follow.
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Roy
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I wont deny that I am a bad boy =)
DLFLux
May 17 2011, 01:38:35 AM
Roy Campbell
May 17 2011, 01:27:34 AM
DLFLux
May 17 2011, 01:22:04 AM
Spread AIDS
I do hope you don't mean atheism hasnt spread AIDS
Then you should be relieved.
Wait, I meant I do hope you don't mean atheism has spead AIDS...I think...man i've confused myself here.

Athiesm =/= spread AIDS.

Yeah. lol.


@Weedle: After reading only the first 2 lines, I may take the time to read the whole post some day and tell you exactly why its totally bullshit. Maybe not, we'll see.
Edited by Roy, May 17 2011, 01:47:29 AM.
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Sword
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Kaz... I'm already half Xehanort

lol YES. I was waiting for that shit you posted last time Weedle. Soviet states with atheist dictators etc. Man that has been debunked so many goddamn times. They may have been atheists, but they did not commit atrocities in the name of atheism. They wanted people to worship them instead of some god, which is why religion was not something they wanted around.
Edited by Sword, May 17 2011, 01:52:00 AM.
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Roy
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I wont deny that I am a bad boy =)
Gave me a laugh though.
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Sword
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Kaz... I'm already half Xehanort

Just read the last paragraph. Man you must be trollin. No one can be that retarded. Apparently I'm a monster with a huge body count.
Edited by Sword, May 17 2011, 02:04:12 AM.
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Roy
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I wont deny that I am a bad boy =)
How many have you killed, Sword? I just killed my 55th a minute ago.
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Sword
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Kaz... I'm already half Xehanort

Over 3000 :D

Still no where near Hitler's high score.
Edited by Sword, May 17 2011, 02:05:40 AM.
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DLFLux
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I'm going to crush you, and throw you into the wind!
Roy Campbell
May 17 2011, 01:45:26 AM
DLFLux
May 17 2011, 01:38:35 AM
Roy Campbell
May 17 2011, 01:27:34 AM
DLFLux
May 17 2011, 01:22:04 AM
Spread AIDS
I do hope you don't mean atheism hasnt spread AIDS
Then you should be relieved.
Wait, I meant I do hope you don't mean atheism has spead AIDS...I think...man i've confused myself here.

Athiesm =/= spread AIDS.

Yeah. lol.
Maybe I was, maybe I wasn't.

Or maybe I was just trollin'

Anyways:

Quote:
 
as well as atheism being a core belief


That is fucking gold.
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......Guess that's the difference in friends and associates,
I done been broke, I done been through the motions
I don't pay no attention to birds,
I use my scope and tend to the vultures.....


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Weedle_McHairybug
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Sword
May 17 2011, 01:51:36 AM
lol YES. I was waiting for that shit you posted last time Weedle. Soviet states with atheist dictators etc. Man that has been debunked so many goddamn times. They may have been atheists, but they did not commit atrocities in the name of atheism. They wanted people to worship them instead of some god, which is why religion was not something they wanted around.
Soviet states actually endorsed atheism, though. Heck, Atheism was the State belief system. Heck, it's because of that endorsement that they attempted to persecute harshly anyone who had religion. It's no different than when King Henry the VIII persecuted Catholics shortly after making the Church of England. Trust me, I used to think your viewpoint about the whole thing in Ninth grade after reading Animal Farm, but after learning that story about my Uncle Bill Sweeney's experience about what the Soviets did with religious people, as well as my priest, Father Adam, talk to the whole class about his experiences in Poland when Communism was in power, that made me see the light. Plus, they also used religion to keep people in line (Stalin used the Orthodox Russian church as a puppet, with Napoleon and the rest of the Pigs doing something similar with Moses the Raven). I can cite a lot more articles pertaining to this if you wish, because I will show you just how much of a danger atheism is right now. Heck, right now because of secularism, various parts of society are actually becoming decadent, and the fact that various people are now trying to undo the whole abortion acts among other things, even those who initially supported abortion, would imply that they are becoming quite sick and tired of it. Hitler wasn't even a Communist, and admitted quite a few times that he is not a believer in god, and need I really remind you guys of just what exactly happened as a result of Hitler coming into power? I'll try to find examples of Atheists who aren't Communists/Nazis if you really wish for it, just to give further proof, but I really cannot see how it is this. Heck, a British person even speculated once that it's actually because of a lack of a belief in god that a lot of the decadence was occuring. I'll even supply the article:

Quote:
 
Who Cares if Christ is Risen?

If you walk out into the street this morning and say to passers-by “Christ is risen,” you will, of course be met with the looks of embarrassment which always accompany contact with strangers in Britain. You will also be met with looks of bewilderment: for if you speak to a typical cross-section, 31 per cent of the people you address will simply not understand what you mean.
According to the opinion poll which we publish today, that is the proportion of British adults who do not know what Easter commemorates. And four-fifths of the people you speak to will believe that what you are saying is untrue. That, at least, is the natural deduction from the poll’s finding that 21 per cent of the population intends to go to church today. Since Easter is the most important feast of the Church, it is a fair assumption that the people not even intending to present themselves today have virtually nothing to do with Christianity, and therefore that a huge majority of people, even allowing for Jews and Muslims, have no religion at all. This fact, which applies to most Western societies, is unprecedented in the history of our civilization. We date our era from the birth of Christ, but as we approach 2,000 years of that era, most of us have come to reject the claims made on His behalf, and many do not even know what those claims are.
Considered from the point of view of the welfare of society, does this matter? It is not as if the decline of Christianity has produced an obvious relapse into barbarism. The West is composed of fairly free, fairly peaceful, extremely prosperous nations. Christianity has not prevented great cruelty and suffering in the past, and its absence does not inevitably introduce them. A country like Poland, where 90 per cent of the population will attend church this Sunday, is not demonstrably “better” than a society like our own; and in some respects - in its material circumstances and political stability - it is demonstrably worse.
Nor is it true that atheism or agnosticism make a moral life impossible. Some of the bravest; kindest and most upright people believe firmly that there is no God, and construct a consistent morality based on that belief.
But what is true is that we are moving into uncharted territory. Since the French Revolution, many influential intellectuals have rejected religion, but it is only now that religious ideas are ceasing to underpin general morality. Because these ideas have prevailed for so long, people tend to assume that the morality which goes with them is somehow obvious and commonsensical and will continue. “Love thy neighbor as thyself” is widely believed to be a moral imperative which everyone can accept and try to follow without religious faith, as if it were a belief which came naturally to man.
This is a terrible error. No moral doctrine comes naturally. As the derivation of the word doctrine implies, it has to be taught. It can only be taught if enough people understand the theories on which it rests and have the means of instilling their consequences into the popular mind. We have entered a period in which this is no longer so, and we are beginning to see the results.
We are seeing a diminished respect for the uniqueness of humanity. Young people, in particular, reserve their greatest moral indignation for wrongs done to animals. This goes much further than a Christian reverence for the whole of God’s creation. The very phrase “animal rights” suggests that animals are on a par with human beings, and that we should have no dominion over them. From that claim flows the rejection of zoos and field sports and horse racing, the growth of vegetarianism, the exaltation of the rainforest over the haunts of men, and the idea that human civilization is simply a blot on the landscape. The Holy Week editorial in the Church Times itself is devoted to the subject of fur. With animal rights goes a lack of interest in the rights of human beings. Property rights and the right of people to earn a living are disregarded in the desire to “save” animals or plants. And the right of people to life itself is discounted. Most of those who fight to stop hunts killing foxes would think nothing of having abortions. If members of the Animal Liberation Front had been in Jerusalem on the first Good Friday, they would have been far too worried about the fate of the donkey on which Christ entered Jerusalem to mind that He was being crucified before their eyes.
With this loss of a truly human morality comes, paradoxically, a greater emphasis on the importance of human gratification. As human beings no longer believe that they have a unique standing in the order of divine creation, they turn inwards. The great modern crime is to prevent people doing whatever it is they want to do. On the Right, this tends to mean complete freedom to make and sell whatever people want to buy. On the Left, it tends to mean giving government money to anyone who asks for it, and arguing that any sexual taste or way of life is equally “valid”. Being yourself is the thing to be, as if your self was automatically interesting and good. The consequence is that what was once called selfishness is now called fulfillment. The word “love” is used just as much as it ever was, but it means something else. For a Christian, the measure of love is what one is willing to give up for it. For the post-Christian, love is the most exciting state of the ego.
The social consequences are more greed, more crime, more family breakdown and more violence, and an extreme restlessness which makes contentment almost as outdated a word as crinoline. And although many non-believers dislike these trends just as much as Christians, they are almost powerless to do anything about them. For religion has an extraordinary and unique capacity to keep sublime concepts of beauty and truth, and the principles of conduct derived from them, in the minds of ordinary people. Without religion, few know what to think, and into the vacuum created pours superstition and fanaticism and pure brutishness.
To all this, the atheist will answer, “You may be right about the social consequences of the loss of faith, but that is simply the pain that results from people discovering that they have been living a lie. Our duty is to develop a new way of living based on the truth.” This is an honorable position, but another possibility presents itself. It is that our moral beliefs will decay if they are cut off from their source, just as a stream will become a stagnant pool if it is no longer fed by its spring, and that this is what is happening in the West today. The injunction to love thy neighbor is not a statement of the obvious. It is a commandment and one which only makes sense because it flows from the first commandment. “Love thy God”. We must obey it because it is true, and we know that it is true because of the event which this day commemorates.


This was from the April 11th, 1993 edition of the London Sunday Telegraph. Again, I really don't expect you to agree with me. After everyone disagreeing with me, I've learned not to expect it, but try to consider the arguement at least, or think it over. And also, please don't insult. There is such a thing as polite disagreement. Aside from the fact that it's not nice, to be honest, it also shows poor debating skills.

Edit: I just noticed that some of you may be thinking that I'm trolling or something. Well, let me tell you something: I am not trolling. As a matter of fact, I am dead serious in regards to my beliefs. A cyber troll doesn't usually take what they themselves say seriously, and only really say them because it gets a rise out of people or irritates them. I don't, however, believe in that approach. As a matter of fact, I hate it, so don't accuse me of being a troll, since if there is something I hate, it's trolling.
Edited by Weedle_McHairybug, May 17 2011, 02:17:43 AM.
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