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The Armory; Everything pertaining to weaponry belongs here.
Topic Started: Jun 4 2012, 02:17:17 AM (11,128 Views)
Kestrel
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Lance Coconut
I'd be pissed if my gun didn't come with a cleaning kit. :D
Especially in a battlefield mostly comprised of a muddy quagmire. (Vietnam)
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:gary:
Gary Town is Forever
#bringbackblack
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Beagle
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Better to rule in hell.
SaltDog
Oct 14 2012, 03:20:42 AM
Beagle
Oct 14 2012, 02:39:20 AM
Tyrant
Oct 10 2012, 08:35:57 PM
I'm getting an M1 Garand replica! I would get a real one, but the only way to get a good quality Garand in the US is to do it through the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) and I don't want to go through that. It's just shooting targets but I hate being graded on it.

And on that note, I have a cool fact to tell ye. I've noticed that there's an M1 Garand and an M1 carbine, but they seem to be unrelated in terms of their caliber and how they actually perform as a firearm (One uses the En Bloc Clip, the other a normal magazine.) but I've also noticed that the standard US infantry rifle has kept the use of 'M' along side it, with a carbine corresponding with 'M' and its number. The only gun that doesn't have a carbine brother is the M14, but that wasn't really the main rifle, as right after the Garand, the M16 came into use, with the carbine being created thirty years or so later (The M4A1).
lolwat? no.

the service line for US military Main Combat rifles from WW1 goes like this. 1903 Springfield and 1903 American Enfield, M1 Garand, M14, M16-A1, M16-A2, M16-A4

the carbine for the M16 is the M4, even the M14 had a carbine version issued to tank personnel and paratroopers. and yes it was the main combat rifle from after the Korean War onward to the early Vietnam war. then we switched over to the M16-A1 the M14 still serves today, it's used as a designated marksman rifle in the USMC and the Navy issues it to their sailors on deck whenever they're attacked.
Mostly correct.

If memory serves there is no such thing as a 1903 American Enfield. We got the M1917 which was our version of the British Enfield which came out in 1917 towards the end of WW1. The M1903 Springfield was still the primary during that war though I believe and was still used a lot during WW2 as not everyone got M1s right away.
they called them American Enfields as a nick name and we had them from the onset of the war. the British had contracted Winchester and Remington to produce the rifle for them since it was getting more and more dificult for their factories to produce the weapons due to limited resources. so the US started to make them. when we entered the war we acually had a shortage of 1903s since we weren't figureing on getting involved. what we had plenty of though were these enfield rifles.

so, they went ahead and re-chambered them to shoot 30-06 instead of .303 British.

Alvin York used one and prefered it over the 1903, he earned his MoH with it and his 1911. :)

didn't know the USMC had phased out the M14 as the DMs weapon, i thought the MK11 had some problems that most didn't like, maybe i'm thinking of the SR25? anyway, i'm sure they'll still kick ass regardless.

in regard to the M16, yeah, it wasn't the twist rate that did the damage though it was the ammunition that was being used. i don't know the specifics but the rounds used were much hotter in terms of velocity than the NATO standard now.
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SaltDog
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Light Infantry
Beagle
Oct 14 2012, 05:00:14 AM
SaltDog
Oct 14 2012, 03:20:42 AM
Beagle
Oct 14 2012, 02:39:20 AM
Tyrant
Oct 10 2012, 08:35:57 PM
I'm getting an M1 Garand replica! I would get a real one, but the only way to get a good quality Garand in the US is to do it through the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) and I don't want to go through that. It's just shooting targets but I hate being graded on it.

And on that note, I have a cool fact to tell ye. I've noticed that there's an M1 Garand and an M1 carbine, but they seem to be unrelated in terms of their caliber and how they actually perform as a firearm (One uses the En Bloc Clip, the other a normal magazine.) but I've also noticed that the standard US infantry rifle has kept the use of 'M' along side it, with a carbine corresponding with 'M' and its number. The only gun that doesn't have a carbine brother is the M14, but that wasn't really the main rifle, as right after the Garand, the M16 came into use, with the carbine being created thirty years or so later (The M4A1).
lolwat? no.

the service line for US military Main Combat rifles from WW1 goes like this. 1903 Springfield and 1903 American Enfield, M1 Garand, M14, M16-A1, M16-A2, M16-A4

the carbine for the M16 is the M4, even the M14 had a carbine version issued to tank personnel and paratroopers. and yes it was the main combat rifle from after the Korean War onward to the early Vietnam war. then we switched over to the M16-A1 the M14 still serves today, it's used as a designated marksman rifle in the USMC and the Navy issues it to their sailors on deck whenever they're attacked.
Mostly correct.

If memory serves there is no such thing as a 1903 American Enfield. We got the M1917 which was our version of the British Enfield which came out in 1917 towards the end of WW1. The M1903 Springfield was still the primary during that war though I believe and was still used a lot during WW2 as not everyone got M1s right away.
they called them American Enfields as a nick name and we had them from the onset of the war. the British had contracted Winchester and Remington to produce the rifle for them since it was getting more and more dificult for their factories to produce the weapons due to limited resources. so the US started to make them. when we entered the war we acually had a shortage of 1903s since we weren't figureing on getting involved. what we had plenty of though were these enfield rifles.

so, they went ahead and re-chambered them to shoot 30-06 instead of .303 British.

Alvin York used one and prefered it over the 1903, he earned his MoH with it and his 1911. :)

didn't know the USMC had phased out the M14 as the DMs weapon, i thought the MK11 had some problems that most didn't like, maybe i'm thinking of the SR25? anyway, i'm sure they'll still kick ass regardless.

in regard to the M16, yeah, it wasn't the twist rate that did the damage though it was the ammunition that was being used. i don't know the specifics but the rounds used were much hotter in terms of velocity than the NATO standard now.
Yeah the Mk11 is pretty new, but yeah before that it was the M14 what our DMs used. As for the M16/M4 its the size of the round (5.56 NATO) and it's velocity that does the "damage" I'm assuming you are talking about... but that's because the round is pretty small compared to 30-06 thus it travels faster. The main reason we switched to that round in the first place though is because it's much cheaper. Same reason we now use the 9mm Beretta rather than a .45. Although I hear we are going back to the .45 soon...
Edited by SaltDog, Oct 14 2012, 05:22:13 AM.
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Kestrel
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Lance Coconut
Isn't the MK11 and the SR-25 the sane thing?
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#bringbackblack
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Archer
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#GDWT
So did they rechamber the A1 to use the NATO rounds, or just manufacture them for the later models?

Also I was looking into getting one of these, seeing as they're one of the only weapons I can own in my province without having to make a marriage arrangement.

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Mossberg model 500.

I'm not a huge fan of shotguns, but I've always loved the 500 series, especially the original 500, though I'm stuck between this and a Remington model 870.

(I would be getting a matte blued barrel finish on the 500, unlike the one in the picture)
Edited by Archer, Oct 14 2012, 05:50:57 AM.
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Kestrel
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Lance Coconut
My uncle had a Mossberg, and I see tons of people down range with M870's. I hear very highly of both of them.
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:gary:
Gary Town is Forever
#bringbackblack
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SaltDog
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Kestrel
Oct 14 2012, 05:27:15 AM
Isn't the MK11 and the SR-25 the sane thing?
Yes.

@ Archer

Not sure exactly. I do know the A1 went through some changes during it's early years in Vietnam due to it being terribly unreliable (lots of malfunctions) but eventually was fixed. I'm sure someone can shed more light on what ever exactly the problem was.
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Beagle
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Better to rule in hell.
they started to chrome the barrels and chambers, and issued cleaning kits. that's what fixed the malfunctions
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Archer
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#GDWT
SaltDog
Oct 14 2012, 06:04:30 AM
Kestrel
Oct 14 2012, 05:27:15 AM
Isn't the MK11 and the SR-25 the sane thing?
Yes.

@ Archer

Not sure exactly. I do know the A1 went through some changes during it's early years in Vietnam due to it being terribly unreliable (lots of malfunctions) but eventually was fixed. I'm sure someone can shed more light on what ever exactly the problem was.
Are you referring to the changes they made between the XM16E1 and the M16A1?
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SaltDog
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Light Infantry
Well I'm sure they had cleaning kits... You never not get a cleaning kit TRUST me :haha:

If anything they probably didn't have the proper cleaning kit for that particular weapon... which I can see happening.
Edited by SaltDog, Oct 14 2012, 06:21:42 AM.
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OzwaldTheCrab
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From the Spliff that I lift and inhale...
Beagle
Oct 14 2012, 02:39:20 AM
Tyrant
Oct 10 2012, 08:35:57 PM
I'm getting an M1 Garand replica! I would get a real one, but the only way to get a good quality Garand in the US is to do it through the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) and I don't want to go through that. It's just shooting targets but I hate being graded on it.

And on that note, I have a cool fact to tell ye. I've noticed that there's an M1 Garand and an M1 carbine, but they seem to be unrelated in terms of their caliber and how they actually perform as a firearm (One uses the En Bloc Clip, the other a normal magazine.) but I've also noticed that the standard US infantry rifle has kept the use of 'M' along side it, with a carbine corresponding with 'M' and its number. The only gun that doesn't have a carbine brother is the M14, but that wasn't really the main rifle, as right after the Garand, the M16 came into use, with the carbine being created thirty years or so later (The M4A1).
lolwat? no.

the service line for US military Main Combat rifles from WW1 goes like this. 1903 Springfield and 1903 American Enfield, M1 Garand, M14, M16-A1, M16-A2, M16-A4

the carbine for the M16 is the M4, even the M14 had a carbine version issued to tank personnel and paratroopers. and yes it was the main combat rifle from after the Korean War onward to the early Vietnam war. then we switched over to the M16-A1 the M14 still serves today, it's used as a designated marksman rifle in the USMC and the Navy issues it to their sailors on deck whenever they're attacked.
Yes the M14 was the main rifle, but overall it wasn't really remembered as such. Many would take an M16 over an M14 for mainline combat, not sniping or any kind of specialization.

Also they did have cleaning kits, but the myth was that the M16 was self cleaning so they never really used the cleaning kits, if they didn't lose them in the jungle first. At least that's what happened with my great uncle...
Edited by OzwaldTheCrab, Oct 15 2012, 04:36:17 AM.
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Thunderbolt
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落雷
Raiden
 
"...I held my first AK..."
...today and I want to buy it. There's a problem though. I want to make sure it's in good condition before I throw 600 bucks at it ($609 to be exact). What are some things to look for in making sure it's a good condition gun?

Edit: Had to add the Raiden quote since we're on an MGS forum. :P
Edited by Thunderbolt, Oct 16 2012, 02:47:53 AM.
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SaltDog
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Light Infantry
^^ Best way would be to obviously test fire the weapon. If you can't do that then ask who ever is working if you or they can disassemble the rifle and then inspect the parts. Use your common sense here and look for anything that looks cracked or bent. Also put the weapon to your shoulder and stare down iron sight to make sure front sight tip is not bent. Also have him do a functions check on it to prove to you the safety works properly. That's all you can do really... If it's dirty or a little rusty don't worry about as that can be cleaned/scrubbed off. If your buying it from a store though that shouldn't be a issue.

A proper functions check is also proof that the weapon is properly assembled, thus should fire.
Edited by SaltDog, Oct 16 2012, 03:29:29 AM.
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Archer
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#GDWT
If you can't test fire it, don't buy it.
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Thunderbolt
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落雷
SaltDog
 
^^ Best way would be to obviously test fire the weapon. If you can't do that then ask who ever is working if you or they can disassemble the rifle and then inspect the parts. Use your common sense here and look for anything that looks cracked or bent. Also put the weapon to your shoulder and stare down iron sight to make sure front sight tip is not bent. Also have him do a functions check on it to prove to you the safety works properly. That's all you can do really... If it's dirty or a little rusty don't worry about as that can be cleaned/scrubbed off. If your buying it from a store though that shouldn't be a issue.

A proper functions check is also proof that the weapon is properly assembled, thus should fire.

Sounds like you're talkin' from a lot of experience. I've been watching some field strip videos to see how it's done:



I get the feeling I'll mess a few things up here or there, but I guess I just gotta go through with it, right? Also I was reading a bit about wood stocks here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_%28firearms%29#Woodstocks

Says to make sure the grain flows with the direction of the barrel, so I'll look out for that too.

Archer
 
If you can't test fire it, don't buy it.

You sure that's not overboard? :huh: Cause the lady that I was talking to was kind of an idiot. She really didn't know one gun from another. I asked to see the AK, and she hands me a .223 AR-15. I'd figure someone like that wouldn't want a kid to shoot a gun or something.
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SaltDog
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Light Infantry
Thunderbolt
Oct 16 2012, 04:05:50 AM
SaltDog
 
^^ Best way would be to obviously test fire the weapon. If you can't do that then ask who ever is working if you or they can disassemble the rifle and then inspect the parts. Use your common sense here and look for anything that looks cracked or bent. Also put the weapon to your shoulder and stare down iron sight to make sure front sight tip is not bent. Also have him do a functions check on it to prove to you the safety works properly. That's all you can do really... If it's dirty or a little rusty don't worry about as that can be cleaned/scrubbed off. If your buying it from a store though that shouldn't be a issue.

A proper functions check is also proof that the weapon is properly assembled, thus should fire.

Sounds like you're talkin' from a lot of experience. I've been watching some field strip videos to see how it's done:



I get the feeling I'll mess a few things up here or there, but I guess I just gotta go through with it, right? Also I was reading a bit about wood stocks here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_%28firearms%29#Woodstocks

Says to make sure the grain flows with the direction of the barrel, so I'll look out for that too.

Yeah I know a thing or two :cool:

And yeah I didn't know about the wooden butt stock thing, so I would look into that as well. Also, you can always get a more modern looking stock and fore grip rather than the old school wood furnishing. Unless of course your just going for more of the classic look. Just have the shop guy show you how to dissemble and reassemble it it's very easy there is only a few parts to it which akso makes it very easy to clean compared to a AR-15. You can't go wrong with an AK... you can bury the damn thing in the sand for 5 years and take it right out and it will fire just fine.
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Archer
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#GDWT
Thunderbolt
Oct 16 2012, 04:05:50 AM
Archer
 
If you can't test fire it, don't buy it.

You sure that's not overboard? :huh: Cause the lady that I was talking to was kind of an idiot. She really didn't know one gun from another. I asked to see the AK, and she hands me a .223 AR-15. I'd figure someone like that wouldn't want a kid to shoot a gun or something.
Unless it's someone licensed to sell guns with a return policy, then I wouldn't risk throwing 600$ at something I can't see working. But if you feel confident enough that you can strip the gun down and know for sure it works just by looking at the parts, be my guest. Just saying I wouldn't.
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SaltDog
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Light Infantry
Archer
Oct 16 2012, 04:39:03 AM
Thunderbolt
Oct 16 2012, 04:05:50 AM
Archer
 
If you can't test fire it, don't buy it.

You sure that's not overboard? :huh: Cause the lady that I was talking to was kind of an idiot. She really didn't know one gun from another. I asked to see the AK, and she hands me a .223 AR-15. I'd figure someone like that wouldn't want a kid to shoot a gun or something.
Unless it's someone licensed to sell guns with a return policy, then I wouldn't risk throwing 600$ at something I can't see working. But if you feel confident enough that you can strip the gun down and know for sure it works just by looking at the parts, be my guest. Just saying I wouldn't.
Even to the trained eye checking the parts is no 100% guarantee that it will fire. A functions check is the best way you can check to see if the gun works properly if you can't actually shoot it.
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Beagle
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Better to rule in hell.
this is all you need to know about cleaning an AK



okay maybe this one. :innocent:



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OzwaldTheCrab
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From the Spliff that I lift and inhale...
I think it would be terrible if your gun jams in a firefight and you'd have to strip it to get the bad round out. Although I doubt it would ever come down to taking the gun apart...
"...It Ain't Hard To Tell..."
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