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E3 Trailer discussion thread
Topic Started: Jun 10 2013, 06:07:21 PM (18,639 Views)
Mr. Tibbs
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Yeah I feel like adding another tragedy to the shittiest decade in human history would make it a bit too much. Right now BB is a shattered man with trust issues who just had his whole world/family/dream/coping mechanism for shooting his mom/gf destroyed by someone who used to be his bro. I don't think he needs any more reasons to become a demon
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KmdtKain
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Jail Guard
Max Payne
Oct 16 2014, 08:54:07 PM
I want him to be angry at Zero and The Patriots for the downfall of MSF, just done shove in yet another tragedy upon his men or whatever. Too redundant and unnecessary.

Massacring innocents is a good possibility.
The accidental massacre of innocents would drive even the most battle hardened over the edge.


Anger is an acid which does more damage to the vessel in which it is stored,than onto anything on which it is poured.
-Mark Twain
I will not scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea, I will always be with you.

Either you have an enviable memory,or a pitiable life,to know nothing of regret
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KmdtKain
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Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 08:58:03 PM
Yeah I feel like adding another tragedy to the shittiest decade in human history would make it a bit too much. Right now BB is a shattered man with trust issues who just had his whole world/family/dream/coping mechanism for shooting his mom/gf destroyed by someone who used to be his bro. I don't think he needs any more reasons to become a demon
Almost certain the Boss was his mother. Because her child was ripped away from her she said.
I will not scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea, I will always be with you.

Either you have an enviable memory,or a pitiable life,to know nothing of regret
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Mr. Tibbs
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KmdtKain
Oct 16 2014, 09:00:44 PM
Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 08:58:03 PM
Yeah I feel like adding another tragedy to the shittiest decade in human history would make it a bit too much. Right now BB is a shattered man with trust issues who just had his whole world/family/dream/coping mechanism for shooting his mom/gf destroyed by someone who used to be his bro. I don't think he needs any more reasons to become a demon
Almost certain the Boss was his mother. Because her child was ripped away from her she said.
No Ocelot was her child. He was taken from her by the Philosophers
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KmdtKain
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Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 09:09:41 PM
KmdtKain
Oct 16 2014, 09:00:44 PM
Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 08:58:03 PM
Yeah I feel like adding another tragedy to the shittiest decade in human history would make it a bit too much. Right now BB is a shattered man with trust issues who just had his whole world/family/dream/coping mechanism for shooting his mom/gf destroyed by someone who used to be his bro. I don't think he needs any more reasons to become a demon
Almost certain the Boss was his mother. Because her child was ripped away from her she said.
No Ocelot was her child. He was taken from her by the Philosophers
Really? Didn't know that,was that in one of the older games or in MGS lore?
I will not scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea, I will always be with you.

Either you have an enviable memory,or a pitiable life,to know nothing of regret
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The Baneposter
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Only me

I think after he massacres the innocents, he'll try to rationalize and justify it as being necessary, collateral damage, etc and that will set him further down the slippery slope, its when he starts seeing everyone as a number.
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Mr. Tibbs
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KmdtKain
Oct 16 2014, 09:12:03 PM
Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 09:09:41 PM
KmdtKain
Oct 16 2014, 09:00:44 PM
Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 08:58:03 PM
Yeah I feel like adding another tragedy to the shittiest decade in human history would make it a bit too much. Right now BB is a shattered man with trust issues who just had his whole world/family/dream/coping mechanism for shooting his mom/gf destroyed by someone who used to be his bro. I don't think he needs any more reasons to become a demon
Almost certain the Boss was his mother. Because her child was ripped away from her she said.
No Ocelot was her child. He was taken from her by the Philosophers
Really? Didn't know that,was that in one of the older games or in MGS lore?
It's in one of the audio logs in PW
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Heisenberg
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Max Payne
Oct 16 2014, 09:15:15 PM
I think after he massacres the innocents, he'll try to rationalize and justify it as being necessary, collateral damage, etc and that will set him further down the slippery slope, its when he starts seeing everyone as a number.
I like it. Very Breaking Bad like.
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bigbossbalrog
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The thing about Big Boss, is his inner kindness. Despite everything, he remained a fundamentally good person during the events of Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes (He even caresses Paz, and tries to comfort her, and let's out a saddened yell when she plunges into the ocean.)

Somthing really bad has to happen to shake that, and throw him into becoming a demon.
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B3nny56
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Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 09:18:40 PM
KmdtKain
Oct 16 2014, 09:12:03 PM
Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 09:09:41 PM
KmdtKain
Oct 16 2014, 09:00:44 PM
Mr. Tibbs
Oct 16 2014, 08:58:03 PM
Yeah I feel like adding another tragedy to the shittiest decade in human history would make it a bit too much. Right now BB is a shattered man with trust issues who just had his whole world/family/dream/coping mechanism for shooting his mom/gf destroyed by someone who used to be his bro. I don't think he needs any more reasons to become a demon
Almost certain the Boss was his mother. Because her child was ripped away from her she said.
No Ocelot was her child. He was taken from her by the Philosophers
Really? Didn't know that,was that in one of the older games or in MGS lore?
It's in one of the audio logs in PW
As well as hinted in MGS3; same color hair and a radio call with Eva that pretty much confirms it.

"He's the son of some legendary hero or something.. (other stuff) All I heard was that his mother was supposedly shot in the gut during battle and he was born right there, with bullets whizzing past them. They say when they stitched her up, her scar was shaped like a snake"

Definitely The Boss
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KmdtKain
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I need to play MGS 3 again I missed stuff.
I will not scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea, I will always be with you.

Either you have an enviable memory,or a pitiable life,to know nothing of regret
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ideologic
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doggySTYLE
Max Payne
Oct 16 2014, 08:35:59 PM
He lost his men at Mother Base. That isn't enough to make him rage? does he just hold a grudge for the first five minutes and then forget?
"Here's to You" ... a song about innocents wrongly accused of heinous crimes. I have a feeling MSF is not the only major tragedy Zero has planned, and there are many good ways to develop the plot around this notion.

Zero being Zero would probably fuel the anger, just to get Big Boss to "succumb"... and lead FoxHound, even if unwillingly, because he needs him as his global icon.


Now THIS is a story. Big Boss' downfall from being the naive, gentle but loyal soldier we saw in MGS3 to the demon that creates Outer Heaven. This is not just the destruction of a mercenary unit, or even the torture of killing your mentor, this is the total desecration of a man.
Edited by ideologic, Oct 17 2014, 05:06:34 AM.
tha diamonddoggfather

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The Baneposter
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bigbossbalrog
Oct 16 2014, 11:40:33 PM
The thing about Big Boss, is his inner kindness. Despite everything, he remained a fundamentally good person during the events of Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes (He even caresses Paz, and tries to comfort her, and let's out a saddened yell when she plunges into the ocean.)

Somthing really bad has to happen to shake that, and throw him into becoming a demon.
Because he saw Paz as one of them. That was before it had time to sink in, his base literally sunk five minutes ago, and he was forced into a 9 years long coma. Just..what's the point of having another tragedy? why not just work with what you got?
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ideologic
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doggySTYLE
Maybe there will be different kinds of tragedies, besides just "destruction of Mother Base" type scenarios. We don't know what caused the Diamond Dogs in those caskets to die. Also, maybe some sort of psychological deterioration could come into play... maybe toying with Big Boss' psyche and emotions in other ways?
tha diamonddoggfather

Add me on PSN ideologic_
mofuggin tactical operational dick in yo mouth, beeeatch.

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Diamond Dogs Recruitment - Aw shit. Old lady sent ya to the doghouse ageeein? Make sure its this one.

other sigs and stuff
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ballisticola
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Still we carry you.

Max Payne
Oct 17 2014, 10:36:14 AM
bigbossbalrog
Oct 16 2014, 11:40:33 PM
The thing about Big Boss, is his inner kindness. Despite everything, he remained a fundamentally good person during the events of Peace Walker and Ground Zeroes (He even caresses Paz, and tries to comfort her, and let's out a saddened yell when she plunges into the ocean.)

Somthing really bad has to happen to shake that, and throw him into becoming a demon.
Because he saw Paz as one of them. That was before it had time to sink in, his base literally sunk five minutes ago, and he was forced into a 9 years long coma. Just..what's the point of having another tragedy? why not just work with what you got?
Amnesia, son :P
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abstract-one
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Max Payne
Oct 16 2014, 08:24:53 PM
If another tragedy befalls his men YET AGAIN it will become kind of fucking ridiculous. I've already swallowed him starting god knows how many units and bases and organizations, but he's sufficiently lost enough to kick him into revenge. Having another event happen just makes little sense to me and seems like a move to so people who didn't play GZ don't feel lost about motivations.
I think Kojima indicated to us that it was for the benefit of people who didn't play Ground Zeroes.

Amnesia is also a rationalization as to why Big Boss is unaware of certain things, why certain things need to be refreshed for him, but its really for the benefit of the player audience who have not played MGS3 through to Ground Zeroes. Any new tragedy that befalls his men in TPP will probably remind him of his memories of the destruction of Motherbase in Ground Zeroes for instance, as Rogue Agent speculated.

Max Payne
 
Because he saw Paz as one of them. That was before it had time to sink in, his base literally sunk five minutes ago, and he was forced into a 9 years long coma. Just..what's the point of having another tragedy? why not just work with what you got?


Probably due to the reason of Kojima wanting the audience to empathize with Big Boss, and to have them to some extent in desire revenge themselves alongside him. Again for people who didn't play Ground Zeroes. I can agree that this might come off as clunky for those of us who have played Ground Zeroes. Perhaps this is better than the "press X to see flashback memory" shit from MGS4 though? I dunno.

idealogic
 
Maybe there will be different kinds of tragedies, besides just "destruction of Mother Base" type scenarios. We don't know what caused the Diamond Dogs in those caskets to die. Also, maybe some sort of psychological deterioration could come into play... maybe toying with Big Boss' psyche and emotions in other ways?


It would be a little dry and repetitive feeling if Motherbase 2.0 did fall in a very similar manner as Motherbase 1.0. Well obviously the structure itself survives as they are standing on it, but if it were attacked resulting in many deaths. That of course happens on a lesser scale as we know it can be attacked from the gameplay demonstrations showing Motherbase defense, but the funeral scene must be a result of something else?

Or the funeral scene (caskets burning, BB rubbing ashes on his face), is just a series of cutscenes which are triggered by the very first assault on Motherbase 2.0 which won't be that different from the attacks which happen periodically throughout the game (save perhaps that its more scripted).
Edited by abstract-one, Oct 17 2014, 05:47:47 PM.
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The Baneposter
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Only me

And I hate that. Kojima, you're at a point where MGS V is the sequel to 2-3 prequels and its right at the heart of this messed up timeline, NOW you think about making the games accessible?!
Edited by The Baneposter, Oct 17 2014, 05:45:35 PM.
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bigbossbalrog
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I'm not worried about that. In Ground Zeroes, there's tons of references you can only get if you play Peace Walker. Like references to Zardonov, the United States Chairman, and Chico calling him self Hombre Nuevo, for example.
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Rogue Agent
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Who's the United States chairman? That guy who was on the phone with Big Boss during the Peace Walker stuff?
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bigbossbalrog
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Yeah. Kaz mention he has a huge amount of faith in Big Boss after the Peace walker incident, and contracted them to find info on the blacksite in one of the side ops.
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