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The Think Tank; A serious thread.
Topic Started: Jul 22 2013, 08:22:06 PM (1,003 Views)
Tazmo
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MGSF - Where everyone is right and you're wrong

I'd like to have an intelligent discussion, everyone is welcome but please be serious, and in "b4hahatazmoandintelligent" here we can discuss topics like UFO and extraterrestrial life, Illuminati, Science and other interesting topic - We'll choose a new topic each week!!

Please read and play nice.

Wayno
 
I think I can vouch for most members on the board when I say we've seen similar threads encompassing those topics above and in general they do not end well. For some reason this area brings out the worst in the board. I see no issues with this thread (besides the slightly pretentious title) as long as people keep it in check when it comes to arguments and counter arguments. No one wants another Tysonrss scenario. Although with subject matters like these, proclaiming virtually anything as 'fact' and you're just going to have a bad time.


Topic one - Intelligent life

I want to discuss the possibility of alien life and their intelligence the video I've chosen as start point is Neil DeGrasse Tyson on intelligent life, please post your thoughts and opinions.



Another snippet relating, different show.

Edited by Tazmo, Jul 22 2013, 09:12:08 PM.
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Wayno
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I don't even try. Why would I?

I think I can vouch for most members on the board when I say we've seen similar threads encompassing those topics above and in general they do not end well. For some reason this area brings out the worst in the board. I see no issues with this thread (besides the slightly pretentious title) as long as people keep it in check when it comes to arguments and counter arguments. No one wants another Tysonrss scenario. Although with subject matters like these, proclaiming virtually anything as 'fact' and you're just going to have a bad time.
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Rooster
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Listen in awe and you'll hear him...cluck at the moon!
There is almost certainly intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Consider this, there are more stars in the sky than there are grains of sand on all the worlds beaches. Scientists estimate (based on the number of extrasolar planets we've discovered per star observed) that there are about 3 planets per star on average.

If you take .001% of whatever astronomical number that is and say that .001% represents all planets in the "Goldilocks Zone" of their star (which is the distance from a star a planet must be to have liquid water on its surface) the number is still mind boggling. Then you take .001% of all planets capable of supporting life and say those planets are the ones where life is likely to have taken root. Then take .00001% of that number and say these are the planets where intelligent live has evolved. The number is still so large that it has to be written as an exponential figure.

Another factor to take into account is that IF the universe is infinite then there are only so many ways that matter can arrange itself before it starts repeating. So IF the universe is infinite then somewhere out there, there is another sun with an identical earth and an identical you sitting at an identical computer reading these words at the exact same time you are. There's also a you who's already read this and yet another you who has yet to read this, and so on, and so on....
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DrEdArgon
May 1 2014, 08:56:41 PM
She had some mental problems and was locked away in mental health facility (or torture prisons in her words) approx. every six months for weeks, sometimes months. Let me see if I can find some pictures of those cats.

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Tazmo
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Your points are excellent and I think it's ridiculous how ignorant it is to say "we're alone" DeGrasse has an excellent point; If the difference between us and apes is 1% and the difference in that 1% is the Hubble, and a bit of ape sign language, what if an alien race is 1% different to us like we are to the apes, we would be literally monkeys to them, our best inventions, creations, technology would be the equivalent to a monkey putting a shape through the right hole, we wouldn't even be able to fathom a species 1% different then us, just 1%, that's incomprehensible.
Edited by Tazmo, Jul 22 2013, 09:13:13 PM.
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Rooster
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I didn't watch the video but I've seen him speak on that subject before. The thing to remember there is that you're also something like 90% (pulled the number out of my ass but it's not a small number) the same as an onion. That 1% might not be as great a leap, it's what makes up that 1%. Different doesn't necessarily mean more advanced it just meanst different, but surely there are species in which that 1% is an extremely significant difference. There could also be species 100% different in genetic makeup because they've evolved to be based on arsinic instead of phosphorus with the same level of intelligence.
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DrEdArgon
May 1 2014, 08:56:41 PM
She had some mental problems and was locked away in mental health facility (or torture prisons in her words) approx. every six months for weeks, sometimes months. Let me see if I can find some pictures of those cats.

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Captain Jack Sparrow
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ABSOLUTA
I just wanted someone to enlighten me (iīm not taking sides if there are or not intelligent life forms). If there is so much intelligent life forms out there, why canīt we receive their radio signals?
Liquid, youīre outdated!
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The Baneposter
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Captain Jack Sparrow
Jul 23 2013, 01:29:17 AM
I just wanted someone to enlighten me (iīm not taking sides if there are or not intelligent life forms). If there is so much intelligent life forms out there, why canīt we receive their radio signals?
Ummm...because they could be so far away that there is no way in hell we'd ever get feedback, maybe they're intelligent, but primitive?
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Captain Jack Sparrow
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ABSOLUTA
Aragorn
Jul 23 2013, 01:39:36 AM
Captain Jack Sparrow
Jul 23 2013, 01:29:17 AM
I just wanted someone to enlighten me (iīm not taking sides if there are or not intelligent life forms). If there is so much intelligent life forms out there, why canīt we receive their radio signals?
Ummm...because they could be so far away that there is no way in hell we'd ever get feedback, maybe they're intelligent, but primitive?
no way anyone else didnīt reached or even havenīt surpassed surpassed us yet
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The Baneposter
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Maybe some have surpassed or reached us, but they're very far away, and maybe the close ones are all primitive beings.
You can never really say ''nope, we're 100% alone'' because this universe is so big, it's beyond comprehension.
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A Big Crocodile
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Captain Jack Sparrow
Jul 23 2013, 01:29:17 AM
I just wanted someone to enlighten me (iīm not taking sides if there are or not intelligent life forms). If there is so much intelligent life forms out there, why canīt we receive their radio signals?
Radio signals travel at the speed of light in a vacuum. However, the universe is not a vacuum, so the speed of the signal is sure to be slower. Also, radio waves are a form of electromagnetic waves. The universe is rife with very powerful and dense concentrations of magnetic and gravitational fields, which can in turn severely bend or distort the signal. Also, the nearest star is Proxima Centauri, which is 4.24 light years away from our sun, or about 24.925.372.294.893 miles. If the radio signal were to travel at the speed of light, uninterrupted, it would take around four years to travel from there to here. If we were to send a response, it would again take the same amout of time to travel back. So a message and a response would take at least 8 years to take place, in optimal conditions, to the nearest star. However, there are no known planets within that range that have intelligent life, let alone the possibility that it has the ability to transmit radio waves.

I hope this helps you realise the impossibility of an event happening where we could even communicate remotely with another lifeform, at least in our current era. It's more likely that, if we ever were so lucky to receive a signal from another planet, we'd be long extinct by then.
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Freeman
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Life outside the Earth? It's a math issue, and there's virtually 100% chance of it. Now intelligence life? Different equation. The fact that we exist is already an extremely rare phenomenon, so I'd say it's a very debatable issue.
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A Big Crocodile
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I consider life "intelligent" whenever it can operate autonomously through basic levels of thought processing. Here on earth, that would be reptiles because they have the most basically developed brain from all vertebrates. But it's a very relative term altogether because it only applies to he who comes up with it.
Edited by A Big Crocodile, Jul 23 2013, 02:09:43 AM.
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prof_crunchy
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Jul 23 2013, 01:57:29 AM
Captain Jack Sparrow
Jul 23 2013, 01:29:17 AM
I just wanted someone to enlighten me (iīm not taking sides if there are or not intelligent life forms). If there is so much intelligent life forms out there, why canīt we receive their radio signals?
Radio signals travel at the speed of light in a vacuum. However, the universe is not a vacuum, so the speed of the signal is sure to be slower. Also, radio waves are a form of electromagnetic waves. The universe is rife with very powerful and dense concentrations of magnetic and gravitational fields, which can in turn severely bend or distort the signal. Also, the nearest star is Proxima Centauri, which is 4.24 light years away from our sun, or about 24.925.372.294.893 miles. If the radio signal were to travel at the speed of light, uninterrupted, it would take around four years to travel from there to here. If we were to send a response, it would again take the same amout of time to travel back. So a message and a response would take at least 8 years to take place, in optimal conditions, to the nearest star. However, there are no known planets within that range that have intelligent life, let alone the possibility that it has the ability to transmit radio waves.

I hope this helps you realise the impossibility of an event happening where we could even communicate remotely with another lifeform, at least in our current era. It's more likely that, if we ever were so lucky to receive a signal from another planet, we'd be long extinct by then.
And there's another factor that a lot of people seem to neglect as well; in terms of the universe we have been around ('we' being intelligent humans) for a very short amount of time. That means that for us to make contact with other intelligent life, another civilization would have to have formed at the exact same time. Even then, if they sent a signal, humanity might die before the signal even reaches us. It's an issue of timing and the odds of getting it right are probably very low.
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Tazmo
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I read that we share 50% of the same DNA with the banana! Now try and fathom the differance if a life form is 50% more evolved then we are, look at DeGrasse on 1%, 50%! Now CJS, imagine a lifeform one percent more evolved then us, the difference between us and apes is 1%, if our difference is that vast, imagine how vastly superior an alien species could be, we wouldn't even be able to comprehend something so simple as a radio wave from another species, we would be primitive cave monkeys compared to someone 1% more developed, it's also extremely ignorant to say we're alone, but of course there is the possibility we are the most advanced species, that would also mean we are unable to communicate, it's very fascinating, it's not as simple as asking why haven't we received radio waves. Radio waves are probably like a cup on string to them.

Quote:
 
Life outside the Earth? It's a math issue, and there's virtually 100% chance of it. Now intelligence life? Different equation. The fact that we exist is already an extremely rare phenomenon, so I'd say it's a very debatable issue.
If it's a math issue wouldn't you agree that it's only a matter of time before the right chemical balance and conditions are met before our exact life form is recreated? After all the universe is expanding apparently, wouldn't that justify the claim the not only is their intelligent life out there but there is an exact copy of us?
Edited by Tazmo, Jul 23 2013, 01:01:01 PM.
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Rooster
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Captain Jack Sparrow
Jul 23 2013, 01:29:17 AM
I just wanted someone to enlighten me (iīm not taking sides if there are or not intelligent life forms). If there is so much intelligent life forms out there, why canīt we receive their radio signals?
Say there are civilisations who's technological evolution has progressed along a similar line as ours has and those civilisations use radio waves as a form of communication for an average of 10,000 years before finding a better method of communicating over long distances or dying out. Now consider that the observable universe is 13.77 billion years old which means it's 13.77 billion light years across. Now consider that we've only had the means to detect these transmissions since the Bell radio telescope was built back in the 60's and have only been able to scan large areas of the sky specifically looking for these signals since the 80's and 90's.

When you look at these vast ammounts of time for signals to reach us and the relatively short ammount of time these signals were broadcast and that we've only been able to detect these signals for 40 years and have only been looking for these signals for 20 years it becomse easy to see why we haven't yet found a signal from someone.


Alternatively we may have, search "wow signal" read some articles and draw your own conclusions.
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DrEdArgon
May 1 2014, 08:56:41 PM
She had some mental problems and was locked away in mental health facility (or torture prisons in her words) approx. every six months for weeks, sometimes months. Let me see if I can find some pictures of those cats.

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Tazmo
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MGSF - Where everyone is right and you're wrong

Are we prepared for aliens?


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Gene
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I was actually watching some Ancient Aliens and UFO files earlier :D.

I'm not really sure how anyone can deny the existence of extra terrestrial life to be honest. Like Rooster said it's almost a certainty that other intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe, whether it's visited Earth or not is another matter though - the shows I mentioned earlier have a lot of flaws in them, but I do think they raise some interesting questions.

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Vodou Marekaj Fantom
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...Die By The Gun

look at how complex life is, nuerons firing, enzymes shifting, bonds forming and breaking, hormones flowing, blood pumping, so much, and only in the human body, let alone the entire universe. What, im supposed to believe that it just randomly happened? The right snowball just started to roll? I respect your beliefs, but while you find it crazy that I believe in a higher power, I find it crazier that you believe all of the dozens of billions of people to ever live, and the trillions of organisms across the earth and the universe all just appeared from a snowball effect. You call it whatever theory you want, he calls it allah, I call i jesus, we all have our own thoughts, but some are a little more realistic than others.
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Tom P.
 
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May 26 2014, 06:02:17 PM
Vodou Marekaj Fantom
May 26 2014, 06:01:24 PM
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Rooster
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Listen in awe and you'll hear him...cluck at the moon!
Metro Sainte Maria
Aug 10 2013, 08:14:33 AM
look at how complex life is, nuerons firing, enzymes shifting, bonds forming and breaking, hormones flowing, blood pumping, so much, and only in the human body, let alone the entire universe. What, im supposed to believe that it just randomly happened? The right snowball just started to roll? I respect your beliefs, but while you find it crazy that I believe in a higher power, I find it crazier that you believe all of the dozens of billions of people to ever live, and the trillions of organisms across the earth and the universe all just appeared from a snowball effect. You call it whatever theory you want, he calls it allah, I call i jesus, we all have our own thoughts, but some are a little more realistic than others.
I don't think anyone would say you're crazy for believing life and the universe was created rather than happening from a random series of events. Look at the E8 Lie group, it's symmetry and order could be evidence that the universe was designed and created by some higher intellegence. The fact of the matter is that we just don't know and that's where faith comes in. Whether it's faith in a creator or faith science and nature it's all still faith.
Edited by Rooster, Aug 12 2013, 09:16:04 PM.
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DrEdArgon
May 1 2014, 08:56:41 PM
She had some mental problems and was locked away in mental health facility (or torture prisons in her words) approx. every six months for weeks, sometimes months. Let me see if I can find some pictures of those cats.

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Vodou Marekaj Fantom
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...Die By The Gun

Rooster
Aug 10 2013, 02:46:11 PM
Look at the Lie 8 group
sounds like an appropriate name if they're trying to convince me im the result of millions of random atoms bumping into each other.

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Tom P.
 
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May 26 2014, 06:02:17 PM
Vodou Marekaj Fantom
May 26 2014, 06:01:24 PM
Broke +220km/h (140 m/h) last night :)
in what?
IN AIR JORDANS
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