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Something I'm confused over...
Topic Started: Apr 15 2014, 11:47:35 PM (2,335 Views)
AbudJasemAlBaldawi
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Jeez, just because Big Boss is the savior of children doesn't not make him evil.
You too have known loss, and that loss torments you still. You hope hatred might someday replace the pain, but it never goes away.

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GohanLSSJ2
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AbudJasemAlBaldawi
May 24 2014, 02:24:16 AM
Jeez, just because Big Boss is the savior of children doesn't not make him evil.
Exactly. Just because he is LESS Evil than Coldman, Volgin or Skull Face doesn't mean he isn't evil. I'd say that for The Phantom Pain, Punished Snake would be on the same level as Gene.
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The Baneposter
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Inspector_Swag
May 24 2014, 12:03:53 AM
Personally, I don't think he's shooting the children either. I think it's merely Kojima piecing a following scene for shock value. But that's my personal opinion based on conjecture. Korn is right: you can't claim it's out of character, or can you write it off as shooting a lock with several billets.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense for him to shoot them, makes much more sense for that mine to be his, you know, he mines blood diamonds using child workers and then funds his operation.
And again, out of character is when a character with established traits and personalities does something completely out of said boundaries.
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Old Liquid
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If he did shoot them, the trailer would spoil a major plot point imo. To me it seems they are characters critical to the plot. We saw one of the kids, (the one with the yellow wool cap) being controlled by Kojima in the FOX Engine demo back in 11`. I think in a podcast Kojima called him Julius. But there is no way for sure we know their fate based on the few glimpses we have seen.
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Acid Boss
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Old Liquid
May 25 2014, 11:56:18 AM
If he did shoot them, the trailer would spoil a major plot point imo. To me it seems they are characters critical to the plot. We saw one of the kids, (the one with the yellow wool cap) being controlled by Kojima in the FOX Engine demo back in 11`. I think in a podcast Kojima called him Julius. But there is no way for sure we know their fate based on the few glimpses we have seen.
but it doesn't spoil anything, because we're obviously only speculating if he shot the children or not. The trailer doesn't definitively show you whether that's true or not... so what did it spoil?

And this bullshit of it 'NOT' being out of character is untrue, it is out of character for the Big Boss we've known thus far. Could you see the BB we knew killing kids in Peace Walker? TPP's scenario's might change Big Boss, but up until the end of PW or Ground Zeroes, I still don't see him killing kids, so yeah, it's out of character.
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Old Liquid
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Acid Boss
May 25 2014, 09:04:33 PM
Old Liquid
May 25 2014, 11:56:18 AM
If he did shoot them, the trailer would spoil a major plot point imo. To me it seems they are characters critical to the plot. We saw one of the kids, (the one with the yellow wool cap) being controlled by Kojima in the FOX Engine demo back in 11`. I think in a podcast Kojima called him Julius. But there is no way for sure we know their fate based on the few glimpses we have seen.
but it doesn't spoil anything, because we're obviously only speculating if he shot the children or not. The trailer doesn't definitively show you whether that's true or not... so what did it spoil?

And this bullshit of it 'NOT' being out of character is untrue, it is out of character for the Big Boss we've known thus far. Could you see the BB we knew killing kids in Peace Walker? TPP's scenario's might change Big Boss, but up until the end of PW or Ground Zeroes, I still don't see him killing kids, so yeah, it's out of character.
But if he does infact kill the kids, the trailer did spoil it.
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Acid Boss
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still don't follow bro, it doesn't spoil really anything because we don't know which way it goes down in the trailer. Therefore we're still able to think it goes either way and there is no definitive outcome that is solidified by that trailer at all.

It's like sneak peaks of the next weeks episodes after a cliffhanger, they allude to things but in no way are they spoilers at all, because the outcome is undetermined by them.
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Eagle
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Acid Boss
May 25 2014, 09:04:33 PM
Old Liquid
May 25 2014, 11:56:18 AM
If he did shoot them, the trailer would spoil a major plot point imo. To me it seems they are characters critical to the plot. We saw one of the kids, (the one with the yellow wool cap) being controlled by Kojima in the FOX Engine demo back in 11`. I think in a podcast Kojima called him Julius. But there is no way for sure we know their fate based on the few glimpses we have seen.
but it doesn't spoil anything, because we're obviously only speculating if he shot the children or not. The trailer doesn't definitively show you whether that's true or not... so what did it spoil?

And this bullshit of it 'NOT' being out of character is untrue, it is out of character for the Big Boss we've known thus far. Could you see the BB we knew killing kids in Peace Walker? TPP's scenario's might change Big Boss, but up until the end of PW or Ground Zeroes, I still don't see him killing kids, so yeah, it's out of character.
That's the point. He's no longer the Big Boss we knew in PW. He's obsessed with revenge. Naked Snake/would never shoot a child. Punished Snake on the other hand...
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KoRnFlakes
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Old Liquid
May 25 2014, 11:56:18 AM
If he did shoot them, the trailer would spoil a major plot point imo.
OK...and what's your point here? That wouldn't be too surprising since the Ground Zeroes trailers spoiled a good chunk of the ending there.

Max Payne
 
And again, out of character is when a character with established traits and personalities does something completely out of said boundaries.


And those boundaries are set by Kojima, not us, he decides what is and what isn't out of character and it's not out of character because Phantom Pain Big Boss isn't the same Big Boss we've played from 3 to Peace Walker, and really, how would any of us know whether or not he'd have shot a child back then anyway? The only child in any of the games before now was Chico who was on Big Boss's side to begin with.

You can't say that Big Boss would never shoot a child whether it was for self defense or whatever necessity he came up with because it was never shown whether he would or wouldn't, therefor it would not be out of character for Big Boss to kill cage kids because Big Boss not killing children was never an established character trait.

Oh, by the way, don't forget that Big Boss was pretty willing to pull Null's plug when he was in his machine, which would've killed him, and Null was only 16.
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(SGR) SEAN
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Eh i think shooting kids would be something kojima would actually show, he seems pretty serious on pushing the boundaries of what you can show in a video game to put your message across.
We know theres torture which is pretty risky to show in a video game already.
We know theres child soldiers.
Hospital massacre.
The whole paz scene with her guts coming out
Really it wouldnt surprise me that kojima would go this far as to having big boss shoot defenceless kids.
No sugar coating this time it seems... Exept for certain regions since gz
Alone has been censored already.
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The Baneposter
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KoRnFlakes
May 26 2014, 02:29:37 AM
Old Liquid
May 25 2014, 11:56:18 AM
If he did shoot them, the trailer would spoil a major plot point imo.
OK...and what's your point here? That wouldn't be too surprising since the Ground Zeroes trailers spoiled a good chunk of the ending there.

Max Payne
 
And again, out of character is when a character with established traits and personalities does something completely out of said boundaries.


And those boundaries are set by Kojima, not us, he decides what is and what isn't out of character and it's not out of character because Phantom Pain Big Boss isn't the same Big Boss we've played from 3 to Peace Walker, and really, how would any of us know whether or not he'd have shot a child back then anyway? The only child in any of the games before now was Chico who was on Big Boss's side to begin with.

You can't say that Big Boss would never shoot a child whether it was for self defense or whatever necessity he came up with because it was never shown whether he would or wouldn't, therefor it would not be out of character for Big Boss to kill cage kids because Big Boss not killing children was never an established character trait.

Oh, by the way, don't forget that Big Boss was pretty willing to pull Null's plug when he was in his machine, which would've killed him, and Null was only 16.
ACID/Korn@ But sudden transition makes for bad writing. Big Boss shouldn't just magically become a villain, you guys are mistaking character development for out of character.
Out of character is if Big Boss suddenly starts giving away his base to fund a orphanage. Out of character is for Snake to suddenly become a happy go lucky hipster. Him killing children wouldn't necessarily be out of character, although just killing them instead of using them when you think about, eh is kind of weird because he manipulated those kids in Metal Gear 1 and Metal Gear 2, i'm talking about the idea of out of character in general.
Its not within his character traits just yet for him to be killing children and enslaving them or whatever, TPP has to establish those traits.
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Black Adder
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KoRnFlakes
May 23 2014, 10:52:22 PM
curtisstrum
May 23 2014, 10:46:56 PM
Chances are he is shooting the cage on the lock to free them.
Video game logic would say that shooting the lock off would only take one shot, he shoots a hell of a lot more than one round, meaning he's not shooting at the lock.

That and he's got lockpicks and can pick locks reasonably quickly, he doesn't need to shoot the locks off.

Really...some people are going to some real great lengths to find an excuse for Big Boss to not be shooting at them, when he very well could be.
He "very well could be", but most likely, he is not. It is obviously edited to make us believe he is killing children. He never harmed Chico, and him choking Chico out was for his own good. He never harmed any children in any previous games. What would he gain from killing these children? If anything it would make more sense for him to indoctrinate them and force them to work mining diamonds. Killing them would serve no purpose. Big Boss is not a "child-killer", it's very unlikely for him to be shooting those children. He could be, but I am willing to bet he isn't shooting those kids. It would serve zero purpose aside from "OH MY GOD LOOK HOW BAD BIG BOSS IS!"

Another thing I am willing to bet is that Big Boss, while he may not be pure of heart, is not the evil villain he is made out to be in MG1. There have been plenty of hints dropped to prove that his image was purposely broken down and demonized ("Kaz, I'm already a demon"). He even says at the end of Peace Walker that the world will call them traitors, terrorists, or rebels or whatever he says, but HE alone knows their true purpose and his purpose has always been putting a stop to the Patriots and providing funding/military support to those who are in need. He will be deranged, he will be battling with his ideals and morals, he will do some horrible shit, but the end justifies the means. I am certainly willing to bet that he will be shown to be a misunderstood hero, a human who has made mistakes like anyone else, and a human who once again has been used and had his image distorted because the powers that be don't want his power to be known or used against them. So they demonize him. Just like Kojima is doing with this trailer by making you think "OH MY GOD LOOK HOW BAD BIG BOSS IS! HE IS KILLING CHILDREN!" It's an obvious edit to make that appear to be the truth. "Lets show these kids presenting diamonds to Big Boss, and then show Big Boss handing one back, and then show the kids backing away...now cut scene. BIG BOSS IS OPENING FIRE WITH HIS AR15 ON...something."
Edited by Black Adder, May 29 2014, 07:55:20 AM.
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AbudJasemAlBaldawi
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I always found Big Boss to be a gray character in MG2, especially how that kid says "the one-eyed man is like our daddy"
You too have known loss, and that loss torments you still. You hope hatred might someday replace the pain, but it never goes away.

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The Baneposter
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No the ends don't justify the means, sorry. He started out with good intentions, he wanted to stop The Patriots but then it grew out of hand, that goal deteriorated and he was just using it as an excuse to play out his sick fantasies of a world where soldiers are always needed, a place of constant battle and wars. You cross the line the minute you start recruiting children as a false shepherd after you kill their parents.
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The Doctor
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lol Big Boss is a legendary mercenary and he has trouble shooting the lock which takes him a dozen shots, with it being upclose? God knows what the final boss will be like lol. But yeah, unless this scene is different from the scene we believe it is from, I take the hint he's killing those guys in the cage...I mean, unless the lock is a super ultra mega death lock that can't be picklocked and must be shot off ten thousand times, why does he need to shoot a dozen times? Maybe twice or thrice but it went on more than five times....
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
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Heisenberg
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The Doctor
May 29 2014, 11:33:25 AM
lol Big Boss is a legendary mercenary and he has trouble shooting the lock which takes him a dozen shots, with it being upclose? God knows what the final boss will be like lol. But yeah, unless this scene is different from the scene we believe it is from, I take the hint he's killing those guys in the cage...I mean, unless the lock is a super ultra mega death lock that can't be picklocked and must be shot off ten thousand times, why does he need to shoot a dozen times? Maybe twice or thrice but it went on more than five times....
Maybe a few kids turned on him and didn't offer diamonds back?

Y U DO DIS?! AGGGHHH LLLLIIIQQQQUUUIIIIDDDD! *shoots the kids who won't barter*
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Crimson Rex
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May 29 2014, 11:13:09 AM
No the ends don't justify the means, sorry. He started out with good intentions, he wanted to stop The Patriots but then it grew out of hand, that goal deteriorated and he was just using it as an excuse to play out his sick fantasies of a world where soldiers are always needed, a place of constant battle and wars. You cross the line the minute you start recruiting children as a false shepherd after you kill their parents.
1. I agree with this and 2. LOLBioshock phrasing.
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