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We Can Expect An Excellent Script
Topic Started: May 2 2014, 09:59:27 AM (3,526 Views)
Fascist Weasel
"But I haven't lost my skull.."
Rogue Agent
May 7 2014, 10:26:34 PM
Fascist Weasel
May 7 2014, 05:30:40 PM
So you'd rather be able to remember cool lines than to feel a greater emotional response to Big Boss? I couldn't care less what happens to Big Boss at the moment because he feels like an empty vessel the player is meant to fill and use to progress the story (supporting characters giving emotional performances then cue reaction shot of Snake). I care more about Skullface than the main freaking character because I heard his tragic story from his actual mouth. We heard the anguish and the anger in his voice as he told us his history.
Yes, especially when I thought that the lines he delivered had emotional weight to them.
What are these great lines that carry so much weight that they make up for their scarcity?
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Gigagiga
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Max Payne
May 4 2014, 09:24:27 AM
People acting as if story ambiguity is revolutionary shows just how bad the storytelling/writing in those games can be. Integrating the bulk of story into tapes is lazy, ambiguity doesn't have to equal stripping off parts of the story and putting it somewhere else, you don't really change anything like that.
What I was annoyed about was all the exposition in MGS4 and the other games in the series. It was not only boring and occasionally painful to sit through, but the characters giving the exposition were forced to go "out of character" to deliver those lines. In the tapes in Ground Zeroes, we can actually watch (errr.... listen to) the backstory actually "happen." It's more exciting, and we have to use our heads more than letting an NPC piece it altogether for us.

Edited by Gigagiga, May 8 2014, 08:28:42 AM.
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The Baneposter
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Only me

When you move exposition from the story to the tapes, you're not changing the story structure or dialogue, you just moved it from one location to another. Having to piece together is bit of a half ass excuse to shove all the dialogue into tape rather than write good situations within the story.
You don't need to have everything be on tape to have some sense of mystery *see MGS2* but for it all to fit within the story, it requires good writing on Kojima's part and i'm not sure if he can deliver this time around. Of course I want the tapes to stay and I do want some background stuff on them, but in Ground Zeroes they took it was overboard and had tons and tons of relevant info on the tapes, the story is incomplete without them.
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Thimc0ck
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(SGR) SEAN
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Dive Bombing Eagles
Max Payne
May 8 2014, 09:24:40 AM
When you move exposition from the story to the tapes, you're not changing the story structure or dialogue, you just moved it from one location to another. Having to piece together is bit of a half ass excuse to shove all the dialogue into tape rather than write good situations within the story.
You don't need to have everything be on tape to have some sense of mystery *see MGS2* but for it all to fit within the story, it requires good writing on Kojima's part and i'm not sure if he can deliver this time around. Of course I want the tapes to stay and I do want some background stuff on them, but in Ground Zeroes they took it was overboard and had tons and tons of relevant info on the tapes, the story is incomplete without them.
The way kojima said it was like this
The use of cutscenes has been to move the story along and provide drama but since the game is now going open world there would be cutscenes all over. Some that not everyone was going to see. I didnt want to force them.I decided to put some of the story into the audio tapes to accomodate for that.
Theres an interview with did you know gaming that has a more detailed awnser. This was just off the top of my head.
The freedom of doing whatever you want is a good thing.
The tapes help achieve this by not putting cutscenes everywhere on the map that would have explain the same things the tapes would have.
Also since some people new to mgs wont give a damn about the story. The audio tapes will be an optional thing that he will probably check out either as he plays (since it doesnt disturb the gameplay) or wait untill he beats the game and then he will become curious and listen to the tapes.
In this mgs theres no need to put abunch of cutscenes everywhere to explain the story.
The tapes fit well with how open the game is going to be.
Edited by (SGR) SEAN, May 8 2014, 12:19:30 PM.
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The Baneposter
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First of all this game probably won't be open world, it'll be a bunch of sand box levels and the open world stuff is just marketing terms.
Second of all, that's a terrible explanation. If it is open world, the story is in the fucking story missions, why would it need to be all over the map in the form of tapes? why doesn't he tell us those stories he has written up through side quests and NPCs? like every other proper open world game does.
You don't see Deus Ex pushing all its story into telecom tapes because of its very open structure. What he's trying to prevent creates reputability, to take different paths and see what you missed.
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(SGR) SEAN
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Dive Bombing Eagles
Well. The game is open world in a sense you can select form of infiltration select the path todo so which in turn will make you miss stuff like bosses and important story elements.

Dont expect EVERYTHING to be in the audio tapes..
The tapes work with what the game is going for.
The tapes in ground zeroes did not make the story complete.
You could understand the story just fine without the tapes.
The tapes just add more detail to the story you already know. Exept this time their not forcing it down your throat and making you sit through hours upon hours of cutscenes. Breaking the flow of gameplay.
Edited by (SGR) SEAN, May 8 2014, 12:47:20 PM.
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The Baneposter
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Skullface's backstory and character aren't just tiny details, they're important info that should be within the main framework of the story, not just thrown into a tape. The whole torture thing I can forgive being on the tapes, but Kaz and Chico got considerable amount of character within them too.
It might be because GZ is a small game, but I dunno, doesn't excuse it. They should have worked more than one story mission into GZ, then.
Kojima isn't breaking new ground with open world or whatever, every single decent open world game fits the important story elements into the story missions, and has other tid bits scattered around the world. Not vice versa.
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(SGR) SEAN
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Dive Bombing Eagles
Well considering everything in those audio tapes happened before ground zeroes how would you have fit them into the story withought them.
Big boss never witnessed these events happen, if he did he could have probably stopped them.
But since all of this happened before it keeps the drama and tension in the scenes the tales where portraying.
Imagine if most of the tapes, like skull faces backstory, happened in ground zeroes. There would be no way for you to be able to find where he is and listen to what hes saying withought it not making any sense.
It would break the tone of the game.
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The Baneposter
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They can, if they reworked Ground Zeroes to include some form of confrontation/back and forth between Skull Face and Big Boss, or have hints about his past thrown around the game, nothing quite affirmative, but something. When they just moved all that exposition, they didn't make it less redundant, laborious, etc, they just moved it around which I find counter intuitive rather than intuitive.
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(SGR) SEAN
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Dive Bombing Eagles
Well. The way it was done i feel made skull face a more menacing character while still retaining some mistery.
Hes the reason big boss lost everything he worked for.
If he had confronted him it would really break the whole reason for revenge. It would have ended up being a scene that was not needed to convey the message of the game.
Skull face is a master mind, and he set up everything just to get big boss.
The villain pretty much always remains a mystery.
Volgin got the same treatment.
Some backstory through cutscenes which werent needed and not much else about him was known other than hes a sadist.
There are somethings that you cant put into the story withought breaking the flow of the story.
It would just be adding stuff that is not needed, but having it be in audio tape and be a collectible gives it purpose for being there.
Its better that it is a collectible then it being spoon fed to you when you get to a certain part of the game. Mgs4 could have benefited from audio tapes to avoid how long the cutscenes were. Primarily the flash back sequences.
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The Baneposter
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There isn't much mystery because his background was spelled out in the audio tape, they shifted the exposition yes, but it's still exposition. I remember before Ground Zeroes became a thing, a few journalists spoke of a scene where Skull Face/Big Boss have some sort of negotiation. That could have been cool to see, heck why not have a side mission/side objective or something about collecting info about the enemy, in which we get a bit of info about SF?
Tbh I wouldn't have even minded if Skull Face's backstory and all that stuff was left for TPP instead of being shoved into tapes in GZ. Trust me, I know how redundant MGS dialogue can be, but proper storytelling would have had Skull Face's backstory be telegraphed through GZ/TPP instead of being shifted to a collectible just like that. The story really feels incomplete without the tapes, that's never good.
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(SGR) SEAN
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Dive Bombing Eagles
Well ok. In that aspect yea something could have been done.
But unfortunately since kojima wants to keep a "serious" tone there has to be compromises with the story to be able to keep that tone.
I guess making some exposition be audio tapes is the way they chose todo it.
But we dont know how much is going to be in the audio tapes in the phantom pain.
It could either be really important story information or just extra stuff that doesnt add much to the story.
I guess we wait until the game comes out to really form an awnser.
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Rogue Agent
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Fascist Weasel
May 8 2014, 08:19:39 AM
What are these great lines that carry so much weight that they make up for their scarcity?
Many of them in the cutscenes and the audio tapes. Almost all of them clicked. I liked how they were delivered and the tone.

I don't know, it's probably just me lol.
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Fascist Weasel
"But I haven't lost my skull.."
Ground Zeroes was the prologue to The Phantom Pain. Skullface's backstory could have been told in The Phantom Pain but it will definitely be expanded upon. Perhaps the audio tapes were a filler collectible because people were complaining that Ground Zeroes might be too short as it was initially just a prologue section to blast through (apparently). Maybe Skullfaces backstory in that audio tape just happened to be something that they chose. Ground Zeroes is a very weird product and I don't think The Phantom Pain's storytelling should be judged off of it except for how cool cutscenes are now.
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Rogue Agent
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Yeah, most likely you're correct.
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Fascist Weasel
"But I haven't lost my skull.."
Rogue Agent
May 8 2014, 02:53:46 PM
Fascist Weasel
May 8 2014, 08:19:39 AM
What are these great lines that carry so much weight that they make up for their scarcity?
Many of them in the cutscenes and the audio tapes. Almost all of them clicked. I liked how they were delivered and the tone.

I don't know, it's probably just me lol.
Sorry if I was being a dick. If you like it that way then that is fine but I just feel Big Boss needs to speak more a lot more for this tale of revenge to achieve its full potential.
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Rogue Agent
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Nah, it's okay. What you say does make sense.

Hopefully he speaks far more in the main game, even if it may not be as much as other games like MGS3 and PW.

One more thing I wanted to say before is that if he's heartbroken at the events of Mother Base destruction, then maybe that's why he'll speak even less in the main game just like how he never spoke much after he killed The Boss. But I myself think that this isn't a good comparison and 2 different scenarios and therefore I'm probably reaching here, since he doesn't speak much even in GZ.
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Heisenberg
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Rogue Agent
May 8 2014, 03:27:09 PM
Nah, it's okay. What you say does make sense.

Hopefully he speaks far more in the main game, even if it may not be as much as other games like MGS3 and PW.

One more thing I wanted to say before is that if he's heartbroken at the events of Mother Base destruction, then maybe that's why he'll speak even less in the main game just like how he never spoke much after he killed The Boss. But I myself think that this isn't a good comparison and 2 different scenarios and therefore I'm probably reaching here, since he doesn't speak much even in GZ.
That's what I presumed, but he's so reserved in GZ. Kind of broke my theory.
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Rogue Agent
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Yeah, which is a shame, I suppose. I thought he'd speak a bit more in GZ.
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