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Slavery; THAT'S RACIST
Topic Started: May 13 2014, 08:09:00 PM (2,333 Views)
Zetheraxza
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So we know that there are references to 'Blood Diamonds' with 'Diamond Dogs" for Big Boss's new faction and we see Big Boss in the E32013 Trailer where he may be shooting Women and Children. Being the Antagonist that Big Boss will become, who says that we will not be seeing the people being forced into slavery and be mining Diamonds in order to invest in their new faction? Now lets take this a lot further, we know how we will be able to actually walk around the base this time unlike Peace Walker. We may be able to have the "capture the base" game play for Big Boss's area of operations and we could be going back time to time and see our "captives" mining and living under poor conditions. If the base income for mining becomes low, you may be able to go to the mines and may shoot one of the slaves and make an example to boost your economy and this may reduce HEROISM in the game. This part seems a bit too far-fetched and this may be one of the controversies Kojima may be talking about in order to not release the game, but what do you guys think about SLAVERY as a story and to discuss this more, will something like this may be implemented in the game-play as well? Slavery doesn't have to be about race either, you may take out soldiers and POW and decide for yourself on what their future is? Diamond Dogs Employee or Forced Labourer.
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The Baneposter
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Diamond Dogs, blood diamonds, it kind of does make sense. Big Boss needs the cash to fund his mercenary unit an fuck with Zero/Skullface, so he engages i illegal diamond mining. It would be interesting if the mines have some sort of interactive aspect rather than just being an event we see in the background, but yeah I really doubt it'll happen.
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trimegadon
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all out.

I dont know how bad big boss is supposed to be portraid in mgs V , but in the trailers before he allegedly shoots against children, he is actually seen handing to one of them a diamond.In real life, diamond slavery children work there for nothing, so BB might found a mine in his Diamond dogs uprising plan, and actually freed them from slavery but let them still work for him and his cause...
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The Baneposter
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Erm..just because the employer changed doesn't make it any less slavery or wrong. Big Boss is still using children to farm Diamonds. He's just checking the diamonds, not giving it to them.
Edited by The Baneposter, May 13 2014, 09:22:33 PM.
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trimegadon
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all out.

Max Payne
May 13 2014, 09:22:12 PM
Erm..just because the employer changed doesn't make it any less slavery or wrong. Big Boss is still using children to farm Diamonds. He's just checking the diamonds, not giving it to them.
I dont know man its just that shooting down children is kind of hard to swallow...
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TheDankSnake
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trimegadon
May 13 2014, 09:16:49 PM
I dont know how bad big boss is supposed to be portraid in mgs V , but in the trailers before he allegedly shoots against children, he is actually seen handing to one of them a diamond.In real life, diamond slavery children work there for nothing, so BB might found a mine in his Diamond dogs uprising plan, and actually freed them from slavery but let them still work for him and his cause...
If you look BBs diamond he gives to the child is much larger than the ones they already have in their hands so maybe BB was like "this is an example of the diamonds i want you getting" but sadly they dont have ones of that caliber so BB, frustrated with them, decides to shoot them haha far off theory but its plausible
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Snake, history will never know what she did. No one will ever learn the truth. Her story, her debriefing... will endure only in your heart. Everything she did, she did for her country. She sacrificed her life and her honor for her native land. She was a real hero. She was a true patriot. - EVA
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The Baneposter
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Nah, I just think he stumbles onto the mine, and then the lad shows him the diamond, as he analyzes it/checks it out, they all open their hands with diamonds in it which makes him realize ''well shit, I want one of those''
Or yeah he's just farming his monthly profits haha.
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Tokyo Tapes
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Look sir, droids

I Hope this blood Diamond aspect is treated with due maturity, implementing gameplay mechanics to something like this would be, in my opinion, just like making a game where you send people to concetration camps, and the whole thing is seem as just another "management operation"".
Kojima is capable of handling it, i think. Also, at this point is difficult to know exactly how the Africa parts will integrate the plot.
Edited by Tokyo Tapes, May 13 2014, 10:58:00 PM.
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Heisenberg
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This game would get shitted on if you can make black people slaves and kill them.
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The Baneposter
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I'm not asking for it to be a game mechanic per se, but something you can interact with. Gaming as a medium is unique because you're not just an observer, capitalize on that.
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trimegadon
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all out.

Its a very sensitive subject.Senseless killing of enslaved children cant be justified.
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_se7en_
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maybe we have the option to recruit children and put them on the "Mining" team. I can see that happening
Edited by _se7en_, May 13 2014, 11:46:19 PM.
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Heisenberg
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_se7en_
May 13 2014, 11:38:19 PM
maybe we have the option to recruit children and put the on the "Mining" team. I can see that happening
Yeah, that's reasonable.
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TheDankSnake
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Colonel Kush
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May 13 2014, 11:02:36 PM
I'm not asking for it to be a game mechanic per se, but something you can interact with. Gaming as a medium is unique because you're not just an observer, capitalize on that.
Thats what kojima is tryin to do with video games... He wants them to be like books or movies where they carry deep meaning and impact... Think of it like if ou were readimg a book about slavery you would have some emptions towards that. Now with TPP youll actually be "experiencing" what you would be reading so if this were to be done tastefully i think it would mean a great steppimg stone in video game history
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Snake, history will never know what she did. No one will ever learn the truth. Her story, her debriefing... will endure only in your heart. Everything she did, she did for her country. She sacrificed her life and her honor for her native land. She was a real hero. She was a true patriot. - EVA
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uncensored
Heavily-Armed Trooper
I still don't think he shot the children and that was just clever placing of scenes in the trailer to stir up controversy
I'm sure that Big Boss will somehow "rescue" these kids in a certain perspective, and offer a better life if they look for his diamonds
For example, we see child soldiers being trained in the Red Band trailer. What if Big Boss comes and takes out their leader, and BB offers them an opportunity to still have "purpose" instead of leaving the children fend for themselves, or maybe even a better life than being forced to be child soldiers. From the outside looking in, it seems as if Big Boss is enslaving these kids to work for him, when in Big Boss's eyes, he gave these kids an opportunity or chance to still survive.

...but if BB really kills kids in this game, Kojima better be ready for boycotts and all that...that shit ain't cool to see on screen.
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Switch
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Big Boss killing the children makes no sense. It's very out of character for him, even for someone who is "becoming a demon". Think of the scene where Big Boss spoke to Chico after Chico said the he wanted to die. Also, as uncensored just said, it would be directly responsible for boycotts of and a great deal of hate being directed towards MGSV.
I'm pretty much certain it was just manipulative clip placement in the trailer and would be very surprised if Big Boss killed child slaves in TPP.
Edited by Switch, May 14 2014, 03:28:50 AM.
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Black Adder
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Max Payne
May 13 2014, 08:16:17 PM
Diamond Dogs, blood diamonds, it kind of does make sense. Big Boss needs the cash to fund his mercenary unit an fuck with Zero/Skullface, so he engages i illegal diamond mining. It would be interesting if the mines have some sort of interactive aspect rather than just being an event we see in the background, but yeah I really doubt it'll happen.
Perhaps while on missions you can scout for mines, kind of how dungeons are located in The Elder Scrolls? I think that would be pretty awesome.
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Heisenberg
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I don't think he kills them either. I've found that Kojima usually isn't trolling with events. And that stuff he hypes up is usually is a misrepresentation and/or anticlimactic. Remember the Chico strangle for instance?

I'm sure it's just him firing at something entirely different.
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Pawn
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No amount of African child slaves, African child killings, or anything even remotely out-of-line is going to stop me from purchasing this game. NOTHING.

That said, Big Boss is far too sympathetic to be willing to kill children over diamonds, it's just not in his nature and you cannot change a man's nature. Only his tendencies can be changed and its temporary at best. The fact of the matter is Big Boss will kill his enemies, specifically enemies who try to kill him or are aligned against him and clearly have it coming to them. Big Boss is only to going to become a demon in his paranoia that is fueled by Kaz's open vocalizations about his desire for revenge, the types of business he'll be dealing in which are very clearly shady trades like mining for diamonds. He's not going to look at a child, unable to work, and then decide to put a bullet in their head for it, but that doesn't mean he won't send that same child on a dangerous mission that could potentially get them killed after they've healed up.

Similarly, Big Boss isn't going to deny people their just rewards for working for him, or for failing to execute a goal of his. I think Big Boss' "demonic" persona will be more directed at his enemies, he'll be less forgiving toward them, more willing to inflict the types of physical pain that would make even Ocelot cringe should they be holding information he deems important. I think his level of cruelty and evil will escalate to levels between Ocelot's and Volgin's: ruthless, cunning, willing to sanction excruciating torture sessions against opposition to extract information about Skullface and Major Zero, however he will not become a sadist, and start actively being a villain simply because he derives pleasure from it.

Basically, there's a huge difference between turning into a Demon and turning into the Devil. Big Boss is just going to become a Demon.
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The Doctor
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I agree with Swag like there will be many people bitching if you do kill them and hire them to slave for Diamonds. I do think it will be done right and like Aragorn said, you should be able to interact. By the way, Aragorn, you say you want interaction, but like what do you mean by that? As in how would you want the player to interact?
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
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