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Moby Dick; How will it influence the plot of MGSV?
Topic Started: May 16 2014, 03:35:34 PM (1,897 Views)
Kenny FastThumbs
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In my short time on these boards to date, I've seen Moby Dick brought up in discussions a few times, but I really think that the story itself and its potential influence on the plot of the Phantom Pain is an interesting enough topic to warrant its own thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YhUSEmhcpU

Above is a link to an excellent interview with Kojima after the release of GZ. It's well worth watching for those that haven't seen it. Moby Dick is brought up around 11 minutes in, watch Kojima's reaction:

Question:
"With regards to the Moby Dick studios thing, what was the significance of that? During the original trailer as well, there were a lot of references and quotes from the book. Does this have something to do with the revenge aspect of the game?"

Kojima:
"That's a very difficult question to answer. I can only say that Moby Dick is a big part of the theme for MGSV. I can only say that your feelings are pretty accurate, you'll see a lot of that, and because of that it's difficult to go into detail."


With that said, I never actually read Moby Dick (just reading some of the language used in it online has me tempted to buy a copy), but it's a classic that just about everyone is vaguely familiar with. A little research online tells me that some of the books strongest themes are those of revenge, race (sound familiar?) and the subjectivity of perception (such as different perceptions of the whale, and at one point each crew member on the ship has a different perception of the same coin, each one shaped by the observers personality).

Right off the bat, what are peoples thoughts here? Ishmael refers to Big Boss (assuming the man with the prosthetic arm is Big Boss, which I would say is a safe bet!) as Ahab. Would the whale naturally be the one who took Big Boss's limb, say Skull Face, or perhaps Cipher (yes I know that the attack on MSF and BB seemed to be Skull Face acting on his own)?

Could the theme of perception tie in with the phantoms (or whatever they are) seen in the hospital? And what about that giant fucking flaming whale?

Thoughts?

Edited by Kenny FastThumbs, May 16 2014, 04:04:27 PM.
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Snake911
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Big Boss is a dick in TPP.
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Kenny FastThumbs
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May 16 2014, 03:44:17 PM
Big Boss is a dick in TPP.
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Heisenberg
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I think it's about how Chico is told to BE quiet.
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Pinochet89
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From what we've sem until now, i think will most likely be the "Ahab" from the game than Big Boss.
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Risev
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Pinochet89
May 16 2014, 05:37:37 PM
From what we've sem until now, i think will most likely be the "Ahab" from the game than Big Boss.
what?
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Risev
May 16 2014, 05:38:24 PM
Pinochet89
May 16 2014, 05:37:37 PM
From what we've sem until now, i think will most likely be the "Ahab" from the game than Big Boss.
what?
I think he meant to say that Chico will most likely be the Ahab of TPP rather than Big Boss. Which I myself disagree with.
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The Doctor
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Guys, lets not bring the Quiet/Chico shit into this topic. For starters, I am getting bored of the joke lol. At first it was funny but it's like...Why?

OT: I've never read a Moby Dick book in my life, so I'll be clueless to know most references from Metal Gear and Moby Dick. The only ones I know is the Ishmael thing and the whale. That's it.
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Risev
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Got it Memeorized?
I bought the book a few months back, but didn't read a single word yet.
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Kenny FastThumbs
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The Doctor
May 16 2014, 09:59:12 PM
Guys, lets not bring the Quiet/Chico shit into this topic. For starters, I am getting bored of the joke lol. At first it was funny but it's like...Why?

OT: I've never read a Moby Dick book in my life, so I'll be clueless to know most references from Metal Gear and Moby Dick. The only ones I know is the Ishmael thing and the whale. That's it.
I appreciate a good laugh, but thanks Doctor.

OT:

The revenge theme will obviously extend beyond Big Boss, we've also got Kaz, possibly Chico, and whatever may be left of MSF all out for blood, among possibly several others.

I think the only character on the Pequod (Ahab's ship) out for revenge is Ahab himself. Ahab's burning desire for revenge was his own undoing of course, perhaps we will see TPP ending with BB swearing revenge on Zero, leading to Outer Heaven and ultimately his demise.

I need to get a hold of the book before TPP, I've always wanted to read it anyway.


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TheDankSnake
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I also think the theme of revenge is gonna extend to skull face as well... No one destroys a past aquaintances' whole fuckin army without there being some sort of bad blood... I really think we are gonna get a lot of moments in the story that will give us the chills an actually make us think "oh fuck this is crazy!"
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avimran
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This is a great thread... Clearly the story of Moby Dick has influenced TPP. I personally think that it'll be similar in the sense that Big Boss will go around the whole world, chasing Skull Face or Zero seeking his revenge.
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Kenny FastThumbs
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Quote:
 
I also think the theme of revenge is gonna extend to skull face as well


Quote:
 
I personally think that it'll be similar in the sense that Big Boss will go around the whole world, chasing Skull Face or Zero seeking his revenge.


EDIT: I must have deleted this line earlier, sorry, but basically yes, I agree with both of those statements.

Another major theme in Moby-Dick is race, which will also appear heavily in TPP according to Kojima.

And then we've got perception, which hasn't been mentioned by Kojima yet, but is a strong possibility, given the apparently heavy influence of the novel on the game. Perception is always important in war, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Kojima has already compared Big Boss's character development to Walter White, is he evil or are his actions justified?

In Moby-Dick, Ahab nails a gold doubloon to the mast and promises his crew that whoever sees Moby Dick first can have it, in order to motivate them. Each crew-members perception of the coin is different and shaped by their personality. Could BB's perception of the phantoms in the hospital be shaped by his own experiences, I wonder if Ishmael (assuming he's not imaginary) also saw a flaming Colonel Volgin?

Big Boss is hunting his own whale with his own mercenary crew.

What secrets can we learn about the Ishmael character by studying his namesake in the novel? Ishmael is famously the stories narrator, but what of his character, here's a bit from wikipedia:

Both Ahab and Ishmael are fascinated by the whale, but whereas Ahab perceives him exclusively as evil, Ishmael keeps an open mind. Ishmael's worldview is not static, as Ahab's is, but flux. "And flux in turn ... is the chief characteristic of Ishmael himself."[1] In the chapter "The Doubloon," Ishmael reports how each spectator sees his own personality reflected in the coin, but does not look at it himself. Only fourteen chapters later, in "The Guilder," does he participate in "what is clearly a recapitulation" of the earlier chapter.[2] The difference is that the surface of the golden sea in "The Guilder" is alive, whereas the surface of the doubloon is unalterably fixed, "only one of several contrasts between Ishmael and Ahab."



Edited by Kenny FastThumbs, May 17 2014, 02:22:47 AM.
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Revolver_FOX
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This is very interesting man, I've never even really thought about this. I think Kojima could be foreshadowing with The whole "Moby Dick Studios" as to what TPP will be. Like everything is not as it seems and he's probably steering us in a wrong direction with his trailers.

Regardless, well thought out thread.
Edited by Revolver_FOX, May 17 2014, 01:52:45 AM.


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Kenny FastThumbs
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May 17 2014, 01:52:03 AM
This is very interesting man, I've never even really thought about this. I think Kojima could be foreshadowing with The whole "Moby Dick Studios" as to what TPP will be. Like everything is not as it seems and he's probably steering us in a wrong direction with his trailers.

Regardless, well thought out thread.
Thanks.

That GDC trailer in the hospital was very surreal, hard to know what's real and what's not. Opinion on Ishmael alone is very divided, that damn Kojima, playing us like a fiddle again!
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OnionLayers
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They confirmed you play as chico for a chapter of the game.
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big_boss1988
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^ok.
Return to topic, i think even skullface will have a thurst for revenge of some kind. Also, don't expect it to be a copy paste story. Just some symbols like ishmael, ahab, the whale and the theme of revenge.
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Rogue Agent
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I hope the thing is like a vicious circle. Like Skull Face is chasing Cipher, but Snake is chasing Cipher too. However, Snake eventually starts chasing Skull Face and all 3 parties meet at the end and their paths converge - something like that.
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MSFSOLDIER
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''Ishmael, the only surviving crewmember of the Pequod, is the narrator of the book.'' - saw this on wikipedia about Moby Dick

Kojima said that the game is going to concentrate more on storytelling , what if Ishmael is the narrator of TPP?
Being a member of Diamond Dogs he could easily talk about Big Boss and his downfall.
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