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Ground Zeroes Hack. Game is bigger than you think; Unused Map areas that may return for TPP
Topic Started: May 23 2014, 05:55:15 AM (6,040 Views)
Heisenberg
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It certainly looks open world, but he has said that before. If it's not yet again, then I'm just saying he should check his vocabulary. :P
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Novitch
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Its more like an open sandbox
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NateDog
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ballisticola
May 28 2014, 11:44:17 AM
Come on, you refuse to see that open world doesn't just mean "one map like GTA". Battlefield's online is 100% open world. What about GTA3 and Vice City? Their maps are smaller than some Battlefield maps...that must mean they're not open world? And they have loading screens.
I'm sorry what? How can you equate a map in an online shooter with "open world"? There may be different levels of "open world" but a Battlefield map is not open world. If you want to give an example of an FPS that is open world then say Rage or something (which isn't completely open world but forget that), but saying maps that are split apart = open world?
Watch this space.
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The Baneposter
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Assassin's Creed is multiple maps split apart yet it is open world. Open world is about exploration and going from place to place at will, if we're just going from level to level, but the levels themselves are sandboxes that ain't open world, that's more or less like Dishonored.

Battlefield 3/4 have big maps but that's it. There isn't that freedom in it like say Red Dead Redemption's multiplayer that give it open world qualities.
''An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives''
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ballisticola
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I'm just saying he should check his vocabulary. :P
I don't think it's unreasonable for him not to explain what open world is. It's not like he said "This game has no boundaries" :D
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There may be different levels of "open world" but a Battlefield map is not open world.
How isn't it? You can go anywhere on the map.
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Open world is about exploration and going from place to place at will, if we're just going from level to level, but the levels themselves are sandboxes that ain't open world
So why is Assassin's Creed different?

In GZ you can go from place to place at will. In fact the same can't be said for GTAV.
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''An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives''
GZ is this. So is GTA. So is Battlefield. So is Assassin's Creed. So are many other games.
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open world qualities
A world that is open to the player. They are the only qualities needed for an open world.
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The Baneposter
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Erm...doesn't that practically make most games open world? Battlefield throws you into a big environment and you face off in multiplayer modes. GZ is one map, that's it, one location that allows for multiple approaches. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it isn't open world. Its just a sandbox like Dishonored.
''An open world is a level or game designed as a nonlinear, vast open area with many ways to reach an objective''
Same wiki page, does that sound like Battlefield to you?
Key word is always ''at will'', here. If TPP just takes you from level to level with no real main hub or something, does it still qualify as open world?
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Heisenberg
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Judging by Afghanistan (assuming the rest of the game is akin), I'll be more than satisfied.
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(SGR) SEAN
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Battlefield is not open world.
You cant leave the area and go wherever you want like in gtav
By this logic then
Assasins creed,gz and even tpp wont qualify as open world either.
Open world is a huge area with practically no boundaries.
Only game that really has done it that way is gta where you can fly away from the map at will

If open world is getting defined as " you have multiple ways to approach an objective" then pretty much any game that has an objective in the middle of the map is considered open world since you can get to that objective from any direction.


Edited by (SGR) SEAN, May 28 2014, 02:31:46 PM.
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ballisticola
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''An open world is a level or game designed as a nonlinear, vast open area with many ways to reach an objective''
Same wiki page, does that sound like Battlefield to you?
Yes. Are you saying it's not? :D
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If TPP just takes you from level to level with no real main hub or something, does it still qualify as open world?
Yes.

''An open world is a level or game designed as a nonlinear, vast open area with many ways to reach an objective''

How you start the level is nothing to do with it being open world or not. It's how the level works.
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Only game that really has done it that way is gta where you can fly away from the map at will
No, that's exactly what you can't do. It's a boundary of infinity with nothing beyond it. Like Battlefield. Both are open world.
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If open world is getting defined as " you have multiple ways to approach an objective" then pretty much any game that has an objective in the middle of the map is considered open world since you can get to that objective from any direction.
If you can travel to anywhere on the map from the start, it's open world. Even some where you can't are still open world, i.e GTA3.
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Zan Datsu
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I did my research on the open world thing and i think now that MGS V is truly a open world game.
Edited by Zan Datsu, May 28 2014, 03:16:35 PM.
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Until that diamond nipple awesome game is ever created, all we can do is dream that one day, an MG1 remake happens
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The Baneposter
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Yes, i'm saying its not because it just is a big bloody map, that doesn't classify as open world. Just like CoD isn't an RPG because you can customize your soldier.

It kind of does. If that ''level'' is open and you can go anywhere and however you like and travel inbetween areas and levels, that's open world akin to Assassin's Creed. But when you're constricted and put on a linear path but with multiple ways to approach an objective, that just makes it a sandbox, not an open world game or sandbox open world game.
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Zetheraxza
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I don't know how you some of you are using "Open World" freedom vs "Open Sandbox" freedom. Open World will consists of a huge map as whole or split up. Sandbox doesn't do anything to change that. It's just another style/genre/gameplay mechanic regardless of linear or open world approach. Sandbox games are normally applied to genres and Kojima knows what he has been talking about. He has said it is a "stealth simulator" which means there are many different approaches and ways to play the game and doesn't really mean much on whether the game is open world. GZ is more of an exploration game in a small scale but it is a sandbox game. Open sandbox doesn't change or has much to do with a game being open world.

A side question, does anybody know actual perimeters or even estimated perimeters of GZ?
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Zan Datsu
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"Phantom Pain provides a vast world where the player can really go anywhere and get lost"


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Now that it's open-world you get the freedom to create your own strategy for espionage. Getting used to it as a case of simulating how you want to infiltrate a base. You're given a mission and in order to execute this mission you need to plan, strategise and execute. There are many ways to do this; all the freedom is up to you and there are no rules lined out like the linear games in the past.


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The first reason why I wanted to go open-world is because I wanted to create a world that had a lot of freedom and allowed users to create their own gameplay.
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Znake
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Open world is about big maps and free roam of how to approach objetctives, true. But it is also a subgenre of adventure games (games that force you to explore as part of the game itself). And by adventure it includes action-adventure and some RPG's, which many of them have freeroam and exploration too by default but not always a big map.

That is why Battlefield is not an open-world game, because at the end it's just a shooter. You can "explore" the huge maps it has but it has no function other than hiding or finding another cover. Farcry 3 and Borderlands force you explore as part of the game itself, and thus they are considered a hybird of FPS with adventre open-world.

It is important to understand the difference between genre and subgenre of games to avoid confusion.
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The Baneposter
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Znake
May 28 2014, 06:38:01 PM
Open world is about big maps and free roam of how to approach objetctives, true. But it is also a subgenre of adventure games (games that force you to explore as part of the game itself). And by adventure it includes action-adventure and some RPG's, which many of them have freeroam and exploration too by default but not always a big map.

That is why Battlefield is not an open-world game, because at the end it's just a shooter. You can "explore" the huge maps it has but it has no function other than hiding or finding another cover. Farcry 3 and Borderlands force you explore as part of the game itself, and thus they are considered a hybird of FPS with adventre open-world.

It is important to understand the difference between genre and subgenre of games to avoid confusion.
I rarely agree with Znake but yep, this. In practical terms, open world isn't just a big map, at the end of the day.
Zether@ I don't disagree with what you're saying, if Kojima just stops fucking saying open world, we won't have a problem.
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NateDog
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I'm not even going to argue why Battlefield isn't open-world, everyone else has done it anyway but it's a ridiculous thing to say so if you think it then go along thinking it.
Watch this space.
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James Jimmy
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"Open world" to me mainly means that you are thrown out inside a big map/world and you can go anywhere you like from "moment 0". The older GTA games had some limitations to that (you had to complete some storyline missions to unlock certain parts of the map), but games like The Elder Scrolls are prime examples of "open world" games. Ground Zeroes was just too small to be considered open world. But if you take that map and multiply it by 200 times, then yes, I'd say it is open world, because you start at a certain point and you can go anywhere you like. I think that's what Kojima meant. I also remember an interview he did right before GZ came out, that he said something like that the map will be loaded as you are playing, so there's not going to be loading screens in the way (I'm looking at you, Skyrim).

In any case, I believe Kojima is intelligent enough to know what he means by "open world" and not vastly mislead everyone, because it'll backfire on him big time. Just my two cents. :)
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ballisticola
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when you're constricted and put on a linear path but with multiple ways to approach an objective, that just makes it a sandbox, not an open world game or sandbox open world game.
You've just described one of the main criticisms of GTA. All the missions are A to B to C to D. You can't have a mission without having to go somewhere and do something.
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It is important to understand the difference between genre and subgenre of games to avoid confusion.
Genre has nothing to do with whether a game is open world.

The Digital Fix - "the true open world nature offered up", "What we have here is a true open world game that really is a sandbox."

Digitally Downloaded - "The open world that you exist within still operates while you are navigating your iDROID device"

Edge Magazine - "it successfully weaves an intensely authored experience into an open world.", "Every inch of Camp Omega’s open world has been touched by a designer’s hand and built for a reason", "When things go wrong in most open-world games, you’re offered nothing but chaos, whereas in Ground Zeroes discovery feels like a scripted reward, even when it’s not."

God is a Geek - "Ground Zeroes is billed as open world, though in truth that’s a little generous. The entire prison camp map is open from the start, with the ability to approach objectives as you see fit, but it isn’t much larger than a level in MGS4, simply less linear now.", "the wide open map means you can tackle foes however you like."

Eurogamer - "It's a short, concentrated burst of the newly introduced open-world gameplay systems, and it suggests that Metal Gear Solid 5, across its two instalments, could be the most significant evolution in the series since it gained its Solid suffix.", "The shift to the open-world genre ensures that the environment does much of the heavy lifting, and it helps that Ground Zeroes' own Camp Omega is something of a treat.", "finding your mark becomes an exercise in deduction and exploration rather than relying on banal markers. In one swift cut, this edit solves a problem that's blighted the open-world genre for years."

GameCritics - "The advance promotion for Ground Zeroes billed it as 'MGS goes open-world', and that wasn't just hype.", "This entry is a huge accomplishment which makes the argument that the Metal Gear series isn't just still relevant in the world of modern open-world action games, but that it has the chance to be at the forefront of them."

Play UK - "Gone are the linear corridors and environments of past games, replaced with an open sandbox with multiple ways to approach and accomplish each objective." It also has a tag saying "stealth open world".

Playstation Universe - "Yep, Metal Gear Solid has finally gone open world. Admittedly, the game environment feels more harmonious with Snake Eater’s larger areas rather than a sprawling sandbox, but nonetheless the tactical freedom on offer is truly liberating."

PSX Extreme - "It’s not Grand Theft Auto or Assassin’s Creed; you do have more room to move, but it’d be inaccurate to call this an open-world sandbox title. You simply have more options at your disposal. Your approach is no longer dictated by your surroundings."

DarkZero - "Ground Zeroes never spoils its open world design with obtrusive barriers. Multiple areas can be entered through various means."

Giant Bomb - "Ground Zeroes makes it feel like the game designers really get how to put an interesting stealth-based open world together."

I am aware that some don't agree with what "open world" means, but just look at most of those (and I gave up not even half way down the reviews page). "if Kojima just stops fucking saying open world, we won't have a problem", what about the rest of us? We obviously define open world as just a world that is open to the player. You can't shut us all up :facelick: The bottom line is that Kojima isn't saying the whole game is one massive map...because that would be crazy big :D
Edited by ballisticola, May 28 2014, 10:42:15 PM.
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Bladewolf
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kojima is incredible! how the fuck have i not seen that?!
If is not like GTA, is not open world, period, end of story
People here goes pretty far in trying to justify Kojima's lies.
Karma's a bitch, huh? Fucking hack
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Kharisha
Light Infantry
I'm reading this and I can't believe this bullshit that i'm reading. It is not a place of MGS fanbase but rather it's haters.

Let me fucking explain to you what is MGSV Open World level design.

If you ever had PC in your life you should know the game that is called Operation Flashpoint or ArmA series from Bohemia Interactive. These games are Military-based FPS/Tactical shooters where you complete missions in the open world environment. This is one map:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130920075004/zombieclan/images/7/79/Untitled-5.jpg

it is 200 km or even more in ArmA. It is by far much bigger than GTAV map or any map you know in the videogame. This map will have few bases and you complete missions in this area how you want and where you want. But it does not have missions like in GTA and it won't have the same interactivity like in GTA so you don't need to explore everything for additional stuff. This is not how ArmA or MGSV are designed. You won't get a lot of exploration in it. I mean you can explore it but it's not the core of the game. Big world in MGSV is just a big arena for you to complete it's core and side missions in the way you want. It's purpose to support your style of the gameplay and not exploration like in GTA or Assasssin's Creed games. This is important (!)

Let me explain another important thing. GTA games are first of all open world games but they are not Sandbox games and they don't have emergent gameplay at all compared to what will be in MGSV. GTA V for example is very linear game at it's core. For example when you launch a mission in GTA V you can only complete it via linear route. Some missions require you to be only in one car and if you go out of it you will fail the mission because the mission was designed that way for you to be there for a story. GTAV campaign is story driven and story driven games require for you to do what designer said.

In MGSV you can do what you want to complete your mission. You can finish the mission with multiple choices. This is sandbox gameplay design and this is what MGSV will be. There won't be one giant Afghanistan where you buy stuff in shops and explore a lot. Maybe there will be some interaction but it is not going to be the core of the game. Afghanistan will be a big arena where you can complete any mission the you want and after you are done with it or just want to change the scenery you can use your helicopter to travel to other areas or to your Mother base.

It's that simple. Kojima never lied about it. It is how the game was designed from the ground up. This is the open world game and it is much harder to make than GTA game because Sandbox gameplay is the hardest thing to do in a videogame since it's existence.

This site is full of obnoxious haters that for some reason don't understand simple things or just hate for no reason at all. Good luck to everyone.
Edited by Kharisha, May 29 2014, 01:55:00 AM.
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