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Ground Zeroes Hack. Game is bigger than you think; Unused Map areas that may return for TPP
Topic Started: May 23 2014, 05:55:15 AM (6,038 Views)
TheDankSnake
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Colonel Kush
There are just different levels to an open world game but needless to say everyone here should realize that what ballisticola is right because an open world game is a game that is open to the player to explore and gives them a wide variety of ways to complete an objective time n time again
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Snake, history will never know what she did. No one will ever learn the truth. Her story, her debriefing... will endure only in your heart. Everything she did, she did for her country. She sacrificed her life and her honor for her native land. She was a real hero. She was a true patriot. - EVA
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The Baneposter
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Khar, thank you for proving my point. You just said its a sandbox game and not an open world game. I have no quarell with Kojima doing it like this, at all, but my problem comes when he says its open world for the 3rd time in this franchise and it doesn't turn out to be. TbhI also doubt the ''multiplied by 200'' claim myself, since it just seems like people took it too literally when he just meant its big.
It's all about expectations, I think we all knew from day 1 that the game will give you several options in terms of how you infiltrate, no disagreements there, its how you'll be able to interact with the map and how much you'll be able to do so.
Again, think Assassin's Creed with this. Multiple hubs split apart that you can travel in between and roam and explore freely at your own pace, that's what open world is like. Or for a smaller scale example, Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Two hubs you progress back in forth inbetween where you can explore and start side and main missions at your own leisure.
Edited by The Baneposter, May 29 2014, 08:03:34 AM.
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Zetheraxza
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It is the matter of delivery for what's promised. Konami fails to do this with their games. Some "open world" Castlevania LoS2 turned out to be. At least TPP trailer has shown some sort of truth on the open world hut GZ was promised the same thing but they cancelled it. It's things like that I fear in TPP on how there would be more content but it would be removed like in GZ. Not getting what we were promised hurts, therefore criticism is justified here.
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James Jimmy
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Kharisha
May 29 2014, 01:52:29 AM
I'm reading this and I can't believe this bullshit that i'm reading. It is not a place of MGS fanbase but rather it's haters.

Let me fucking explain to you what is MGSV Open World level design.

If you ever had PC in your life you should know the game that is called Operation Flashpoint or ArmA series from Bohemia Interactive. These games are Military-based FPS/Tactical shooters where you complete missions in the open world environment. This is one map:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130920075004/zombieclan/images/7/79/Untitled-5.jpg

it is 200 km or even more in ArmA. It is by far much bigger than GTAV map or any map you know in the videogame. This map will have few bases and you complete missions in this area how you want and where you want. But it does not have missions like in GTA and it won't have the same interactivity like in GTA so you don't need to explore everything for additional stuff. This is not how ArmA or MGSV are designed. You won't get a lot of exploration in it. I mean you can explore it but it's not the core of the game. Big world in MGSV is just a big arena for you to complete it's core and side missions in the way you want. It's purpose to support your style of the gameplay and not exploration like in GTA or Assasssin's Creed games. This is important (!)

Let me explain another important thing. GTA games are first of all open world games but they are not Sandbox games and they don't have emergent gameplay at all compared to what will be in MGSV. GTA V for example is very linear game at it's core. For example when you launch a mission in GTA V you can only complete it via linear route. Some missions require you to be only in one car and if you go out of it you will fail the mission because the mission was designed that way for you to be there for a story. GTAV campaign is story driven and story driven games require for you to do what designer said.

In MGSV you can do what you want to complete your mission. You can finish the mission with multiple choices. This is sandbox gameplay design and this is what MGSV will be. There won't be one giant Afghanistan where you buy stuff in shops and explore a lot. Maybe there will be some interaction but it is not going to be the core of the game. Afghanistan will be a big arena where you can complete any mission the you want and after you are done with it or just want to change the scenery you can use your helicopter to travel to other areas or to your Mother base.

It's that simple. Kojima never lied about it. It is how the game was designed from the ground up. This is the open world game and it is much harder to make than GTA game because Sandbox gameplay is the hardest thing to do in a videogame since it's existence.

This site is full of obnoxious haters that for some reason don't understand simple things or just hate for no reason at all. Good luck to everyone.
This. That's how I imagine MGSV will be too. Huge map(s) with different options of tackling missions and going wherever you want, whenever you want it.
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Kharisha
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May 29 2014, 07:32:52 AM
Khar, thank you for proving my point. You just said its a sandbox game and not an open world game. I have no quarell with Kojima doing it like this, at all, but my problem comes when he says its open world for the 3rd time in this franchise and it doesn't turn out to be. TbhI also doubt the ''multiplied by 200'' claim myself, since it just seems like people took it too literally when he just meant its big.
For the last time here I will repeat myself Again. It is an open world game and a sandbox - combined.

200 km was just an example from ArmA games. Bohemia Interactive makes gigantic open world maps that can have 3-5 bases for the entire game to complete the game and you don't need to travel more but you can if you want. MGSV will be no different. Of course it won't have 200 km maps but it will have huge empty maps in general with bases and few easter eggs. The core of it's gameplay is not to steal a car and smash people with it. The core of it's gameplay is to steal a jeep + plan/execute and complete the mission the way you want. There won't be mini games... Maybe there will be some easter eggs and mini games will be inside your games but it's not the core of the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world - read what is open world. Kojima never lied about it even in the past. This is how designers work with diferent genres and sub-genres like "Emergent gameplay, nonlinear open world and etc."
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ballisticola
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It's things like that I fear in TPP on how there would be more content but it would be removed like in GZ.
When was anything removed from GZ? That's pure speculation.
Metal Gear Solid V: Lord of the Parasites - a study of MGSV
Mission 46: The Painful Truth
The Science of Metal Gear: Who is the dominant Snake?

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The Baneposter
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Kharisha
May 29 2014, 09:14:03 AM
Max Payne
May 29 2014, 07:32:52 AM
Khar, thank you for proving my point. You just said its a sandbox game and not an open world game. I have no quarell with Kojima doing it like this, at all, but my problem comes when he says its open world for the 3rd time in this franchise and it doesn't turn out to be. TbhI also doubt the ''multiplied by 200'' claim myself, since it just seems like people took it too literally when he just meant its big.
For the last time here I will repeat myself Again. It is an open world game and a sandbox - combined.

200 km was just an example from ArmA games. Bohemia Interactive makes gigantic open world maps that can have 3-5 bases for the entire game to complete the game and you don't need to travel more but you can if you want. MGSV will be no different. Of course it won't have 200 km maps but it will have huge empty maps in general with bases and few easter eggs. The core of it's gameplay is not to steal a car and smash people with it. The core of it's gameplay is to steal a jeep + plan/execute and complete the mission the way you want. There won't be mini games... Maybe there will be some easter eggs and mini games will be inside your games but it's not the core of the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world - read what is open world. Kojima never lied about it even in the past. This is how designers work with diferent genres and sub-genres like "Emergent gameplay, nonlinear open world and etc."
First of all emergent gameplay is one thing and open world is another thing, emergent gameplay can happen in both, heck the first game to really push forward the idea of emergent gameplay was Deus Ex and that game wasn't really open world, not at all.
Second of all, when it comes to open world games, when you don't have that freedom of traversal and engaging with things at will, it does kind of cease to open world, which is what we're talking about. The very presence of a mission select screen within GZ is kind of disheartening tbh.
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TheDankSnake
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Colonel Kush
The mission select screen is most likely only or GZ i feel you will be able to enter missions on your own freely using the idroid in TPP i really think kojima is trying to put emphasis on freedom in this game (which is what hes wanted all along but couldnt because of limitations). Take into account the things that were sacrificed for GZ being seperate from TPP
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Snake, history will never know what she did. No one will ever learn the truth. Her story, her debriefing... will endure only in your heart. Everything she did, she did for her country. She sacrificed her life and her honor for her native land. She was a real hero. She was a true patriot. - EVA
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Ryuman
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I don't see the problem with Kojima calling it open-world. If everyone here can't get a straight definition of what the term means then I can't see why anyone could call Kojima a liar.
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The Baneposter
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Ryuman
May 31 2014, 05:46:39 AM
I don't see the problem with Kojima calling it open-world. If everyone here can't get a straight definition of what the term means then I can't see why anyone could call Kojima a liar.
Except we kind of can, he knows what people expect out of an open world game, a big world for you to roam in freely, starting up missions and events at your own leisure with side activities and all that shit. And the problem is, this isn't the first time he said its going to be open world, was MGS3 open world?
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Bladewolf
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kojima is incredible! how the fuck have i not seen that?!
GTA3 was released in 2001, the tech was always there since ps2, sure that would mean average visuals (like MGSV is looking right now), but open world games exist years ago already.
Karma's a bitch, huh? Fucking hack
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Zetheraxza
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Ladies and Gentlemen, Raiden in GZ mission. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs-nOGgrwWs
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bigbossbalrog
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Just be quiet everyone. There's literally no proof that it's ever Open World or as Max like to put "Sand Box mission structure." We know there's going to be bounty quests (Which is implying it's open world.) So lets juts wait for the gameplay (Which will be coming during E3 in a few days.) before we judge if it's open world or open sand box. (Ground Zeroes was pretty damn open.)
Edited by bigbossbalrog, Jun 3 2014, 10:59:42 PM.
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Switch
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I don't really understand why we need to argue over technicalities in term definitions... :P Sure, Kojima might be misleading with his use of "open world", but that's got more to do with player perception of what an "open world" game is based on games previously released.
There are different flavours of open world games, with typical defining concepts being the ability to explore at will and a non-linear gameplay structure... both of which are confirmed to be in The Phantom Pain. Whether or not it involves connected sandboxes, is seamless between areas a la The Elder Scrolls or has a mission select screen won't completely make or break its "open world" identity.
Edited by Switch, Jun 4 2014, 02:03:19 AM.
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ballisticola
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I don't really understand why we need to argue over technicalities in term definitions... :P Sure, Kojima might be misleading with his use of "open world"
How do those two statements not contradict each other? :D

Isn't most of the world misleading the minority? Because that's what's happening. Most are saying GZ is open world, so it goes without saying TPP will be too.

If people were expect MGSV to be one map covering an entire continent then they should be ridiculed for their foolishness.
Metal Gear Solid V: Lord of the Parasites - a study of MGSV
Mission 46: The Painful Truth
The Science of Metal Gear: Who is the dominant Snake?

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TheDankSnake
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ballisticola
Jun 4 2014, 03:11:31 AM
If people were expect MGSV to be one map covering an entire continent then they should be ridiculed for their foolishness.
Seriously couldnt agree with you more. The amount if comupting power needed to even make that possible is extremely greater than at least 5 ps4s but i still think thats really lowballing it
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Snake, history will never know what she did. No one will ever learn the truth. Her story, her debriefing... will endure only in your heart. Everything she did, she did for her country. She sacrificed her life and her honor for her native land. She was a real hero. She was a true patriot. - EVA
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ballisticola
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Even if you could do it, it would be a whole lot of nothing and end up like Just Cause, with cut and paste places. Unless you are going to make cities and villages with a population, there's no point in making it.
Metal Gear Solid V: Lord of the Parasites - a study of MGSV
Mission 46: The Painful Truth
The Science of Metal Gear: Who is the dominant Snake?

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