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Did kojima pull something off?; Reasons behind GZ release
Topic Started: May 23 2014, 10:23:59 AM (2,546 Views)
big_boss1988
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I am questioning at the time being that kojima wanted GZ to be inferior to TPP to make it look better in many ways. More cutscenes. Less mysterious and vague. Online features. More soundtracks. Bigger maps. More gameplay features ( cardboard box, replacing knocking... Etc). I think kojima is pulling a marketing stunt. After all, it was the marketing team at KP who suggested to release them separately. Think of it as too many birds with one stone.

Separate releases= more money+ more development time+ inferior and superior experience+keeping the hype up

Note: when i say inferior, it doesn't garbage. It just mean that there is a better experience.
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curtisstrum
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I think kojima used ground zeroes as a trial and feedback test. Hence also the the name (ground zeroes) he is now using gz as way to make it better. Whatever complaints or positive feedback is in gz he will sort it and make the phantom pain better :)
Edited by curtisstrum, May 23 2014, 10:31:08 AM.
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big_boss1988
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That's another bird.
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ballisticola
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After all, it was the marketing team at KP who suggested to release them separately.
Really? Because he said it was going to be released separately in his first interview. This is the first time I've heard about the marketing team. It was all "for the fans" and "we wanted it out for next gen".

How can you say it's inferior to TPP? How can anyone? The controls look the same from what we've seen.
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The Doctor
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Plus isn't GZ supposed to be so we can get use to TPP or something?
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
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big_boss1988
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Don't believe everything you hear people. It's obvious he lied about the reason he released GZ or at least wasn't saying everything and i understand that.

@ballisticola that's what he said in an interview. This is not a with or against GZ thread by the way. I wanted to play MGSV as soon as possible and he gave me the chance. Can't complain.

@the doctor so, we should release every new IP's prologue separately.
Edited by big_boss1988, May 23 2014, 12:44:34 PM.
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Zan Datsu
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As mentioned 100 times now GZ serves as a Prologue, a Demo, a tutorial and probably many more.
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The Doctor
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No I am saying I am sure this was the intention whilst they continue work on TPP so we wouldn't have to wait until TPP was released and we'd be use to the controls instead of screwing up
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
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The Baneposter
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So wait, every game needs a separately released tutorial so we can get used to it, or whatever? does Kojima really think we're all a bunch of incompetent buffoons?
Messing up IS part of the experience.
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Zan Datsu
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That's true Max but note that Kojima changed MGS drastically and i welcome this prologue/Demo/Tutorial (whatever you wanna call it).

Imagine we experience these changes in a full game (which is a big and long game) everyone would be confused and kinda shocked because it would be too much i guess. Atleast for me i can now get use to the controls, mechanics, settings and map design etc. with GZ so i'm prepared for TPP.
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Zetheraxza
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Are you saying that people play certain series or games most of their time? You think people would really go like, "Pressing L3 to run? What control design is this?" or "L1 to aim and R1 to shoot? What game does this?" or "Thank God we got a tutorial to get used to controls that is pretty much standard nowadays in most FPS/TPS shooter because circle for CQC and Pressure for aiming was not awkward for controls, right? RIGHT?"

EDIT: GZ was a Demo and we payed to be play-testers for improving TPP. And due to high production costs, we payed $90 for a full game in order for them to break even in case the game got flopped.

These controls are the most fluid controls of all MGS games. Everybody would be able to pick it up. Unless MGS was all we played, then these controls would be hard. PeaceWalker and MGS4 are the closest in terms of controls with GZ. Unless you jumped to GZ straight from MGS3, then its understandable with the shock. You would be so SHOCKED because the controls are so much better.
Edited by Zetheraxza, May 23 2014, 08:21:33 PM.
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Acid Boss
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Konami could have gotten the user used to the controls without Ground Zeroes being a paid prologue. There is such thing as a small free demo that could have released prior to TPP release.

Aside from that however, regardless of the controversy surrounding Ground Zeroes release and whether or not it was planned from the start that it would be a separate release, there truly were articles to support the fact that they really didn't know what the hell they were doing with it. Initially Ground Zeroes was supposed to be standalone, but it quickly became a back and forth deal and the speculation was rampant.

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Silent Assassin
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ballisticola
May 23 2014, 12:05:30 PM
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After all, it was the marketing team at KP who suggested to release them separately.
Really? Because he said it was going to be released separately in his first interview. This is the first time I've heard about the marketing team. It was all "for the fans" and "we wanted it out for next gen".

How can you say it's inferior to TPP? How can anyone? The controls look the same from what we've seen.
I think I remember hearing that Kojima said he never meant to release them separately. Not sure where, though.

And by inferior I think he means that TPP will look much better when compared to the size and features of GZ.
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big_boss1988
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That's exactly what i mean.
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Mr. Tibbs
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May 23 2014, 01:21:53 PM
That's true Max but note that Kojima changed MGS drastically and i welcome this prologue/Demo/Tutorial (whatever you wanna call it).

Imagine we experience these changes in a full game (which is a big and long game) everyone would be confused and kinda shocked because it would be too much i guess. Atleast for me i can now get use to the controls, mechanics, settings and map design etc. with GZ so i'm prepared for TPP.
Some people may like that but I definitely think trial and error is part of the experience. The first time I picked up dark souls, I died something like 50 times before I cleared the prologue stage. Everything about the game was unfamiliar to me. But it was all logical. The gameplay made sense, but not in a way I was used to. You grow with the game and feel a sense of accomplishment. The first time that I beat a boss without retrying, I felt like an unstoppable warrior. Games need challenge to be fun. GZ was like that to me. Everything about it is completely different from an MGS game. Which was great. I had gotten really good at MGS games so that they weren't challenging. I'm actually kind of upset that I won't get to experience that full, overwhelming difficulty with TPP. I, and many others I'm sure, enjoy when a game actually challenges you instead of guiding you along with slow levels and quick time events.

Just my two cents. But I think the whole tutorial aspect is either bullshit because TPP was just taking to long, or a dumb move because Kojima thinks gamers can't handle a challenge anymore.
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The Baneposter
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I'm pro-GZ by the way, if someone right now asked me ''should I buy Ground Zeroes'' i'd affirmatively say yes, but c'mon getting used to the controls? are we really that fucking dumb and unable to adapt that we need 7 hours of paid content to adapt to controls? especially when this game doesn't have an overtly different or complicated control scheme, its pretty standard fair ain't it?
Its just a petty excuse tbh.
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Gigagiga
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It probably also had something to do with Konami's declining game sales. They need MGS.

Still a stellar release, though.
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ballisticola
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It's massively backfired then. The last thing I heard was how badly it had sold. And they virtually encouraged it before release. When the developers are telling everyone how short it is and how to complete it even faster, you have to wonder what the true motivation behind it is. Because it's certainly not making enough money to fund a company like Konami.
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big_boss1988
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It doesn't fund a company like konami. But, it helps making up for the fox engine's costs and TPP budget. Although it doesn't fully fund the project.
Edited by big_boss1988, May 26 2014, 11:41:41 AM.
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ballisticola
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Where does that come from? People just say it. There is nothing to say this is trying to fund (or partially) the engine. You don't build an engine if you don't have the money. Konami make over $100 million a year (and that's just now). How much does the engine cost? I don't know. But a company the size of Konami could have easily funded the development of any engine in the 6 years between MGS4 and GZ. GZ isn't going to ever dent that...unless it suddenly make hundreds of millions of dollars.
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