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Ishmael - Character Thread; All things Ishmael
Topic Started: Apr 8 2014, 02:21:30 AM (1,566 Views)
SilvergreyEagle
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I'm not taking any credit as most of this information comes from a collection of youtube theorists, and this makes a great point I want to address that everyone should know regarding Ishmael and the hospital scene.

If you listen carefully, It seems that the voice of Ishmael is voiced by the same guy who now voices Big Boss; Kiefer Sutherland. Now I am aware of the whole Gray Fox theory with Ishmael and so on, although I don't think that is the case, I believe its a more "simpler" explanation and believable, that Ishmael is indeed Big Boss himself portrayed, whether it being a hallucination or a figment of his imagination in a "dream sequence", his own subconscious guiding him. Kojima does everything of no coincidence, very sneakingly, and I mention that because in the trailer, Big Boss directly asks, "who are you", and Ishmael points at him, and says he has been watching over him for 9 years. No doubt that after being asked who he is, the pointing towards Big Boss means "I am you", and the "watching over you for 9 years" also seems to hint that he is his own subconscious "guiding" him if you will. Because it does not make sense for Ishmael to be literally watching over him in a hospital when he himself seems like a patient, it does not make sense. Another fine point is his actual bandages wrapped around his face covering his identity, as he is the only one with a face covered, this could mean distortion that's projected from Big Boss, a blurry image, mainly because that's his own subconscious that he has had during that 9 year coma. (If it is actually 9 years). It does make sense.

Again this is not my own theory, but someone else's to the point I recognize it to be one of the greatest points regarding Ishmael, that I feel to make it recognized. But in the end we will see.
Edited by SilvergreyEagle, Apr 8 2014, 02:22:06 AM.
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steeleman
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I know it's been brought up a million times but it defiantly is a possibility. On the other hand I'm tempted to think that Ishmael is the Medic on the Helicopter.
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Intandem
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This topic has been done to death, I'm sure you can find a topic on it somewhere here in the MGS V subsection of the forums.

My theory is that Big Boss is a high value/priority target, and thus it would be paramount to ensure his safety in the event of an assassination attempt. Big Boss is a wanted man, with agencies and certain people (Skullface/XOF) wanting him dead. It absolutely makes sense for whoever is protecting Big Boss (could be Cipher/Zero or the remnants of MSF) to ensure his survival. The best way to do this is to have someone overlooking Big Boss' treatment during his stay at the hospital.

So to say that it doesn't make sense that someone would be watching over Big Boss, is out of touch with reality. The simplest explanation is that Ishmael is there to protect Big Boss, and he could very well be real. There's a possibility that he could be an hallucination, but I think there's more evidence to support that he is infact real rather than not. But just because you say it doesn't make sense, doesn't give any more weight to your theory of him being not real.

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SilvergreyEagle
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Intandem
Apr 8 2014, 03:51:19 AM
This topic has been done to death, I'm sure you can find a topic on it somewhere here in the MGS V subsection of the forums.

My theory is that Big Boss is a high value/priority target, and thus it would be paramount to ensure his safety in the event of an assassination attempt. Big Boss is a wanted man, with agencies and certain people (Skullface/XOF) wanting him dead. It absolutely makes sense for whoever is protecting Big Boss (could be Cipher/Zero or the remnants of MSF) to ensure his survival. The best way to do this is to have someone overlooking Big Boss' treatment during his stay at the hospital.

So to say that it doesn't make sense that someone would be watching over Big Boss, is out of touch with reality. The simplest explanation is that Ishmael is there to protect Big Boss, and he could very well be real. There's a possibility that he could be an hallucination, but I think there's more evidence to support that he is infact real rather than not. But just because you say it doesn't make sense, doesn't give any more weight to your theory of him being not real.
Yes, actually you brang up a good point that I thought about as I was writing that specific part, with Ishmael physically watching over him, possibly by the Patriots. When I said it doesn't make sense, I wasn't meaning it to strengthen my argument, it was just a side comment, so sorry for the misunderstanding. But yes, you did clarify something that I did miss.
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Intandem
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SilvergreyEagle
Apr 8 2014, 04:11:46 AM
Intandem
Apr 8 2014, 03:51:19 AM
This topic has been done to death, I'm sure you can find a topic on it somewhere here in the MGS V subsection of the forums.

My theory is that Big Boss is a high value/priority target, and thus it would be paramount to ensure his safety in the event of an assassination attempt. Big Boss is a wanted man, with agencies and certain people (Skullface/XOF) wanting him dead. It absolutely makes sense for whoever is protecting Big Boss (could be Cipher/Zero or the remnants of MSF) to ensure his survival. The best way to do this is to have someone overlooking Big Boss' treatment during his stay at the hospital.

So to say that it doesn't make sense that someone would be watching over Big Boss, is out of touch with reality. The simplest explanation is that Ishmael is there to protect Big Boss, and he could very well be real. There's a possibility that he could be an hallucination, but I think there's more evidence to support that he is infact real rather than not. But just because you say it doesn't make sense, doesn't give any more weight to your theory of him being not real.
Yes, actually you brang up a good point that I thought about as I was writing that specific part, with Ishmael physically watching over him, possibly by the Patriots. When I said it doesn't make sense, I wasn't meaning it to strengthen my argument, it was just a side comment, so sorry for the misunderstanding. But yes, you did clarify something that I did miss.
No worries. It's still quite possible that Ishmael is an hallucination/projection of Big Boss' mind. There are quite a few proponents of this theory on these forums :cool:

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themidnightsun156
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"Death to the young is more than that undiscovered country; despite its inevitability, it is a place having reality only in song or in other people's grief." - Maya Angelou


Blind runs, ghost runs, and other stuff
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Switch
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This theory has been mentioned several times before, but it's nevertheless what I believe to be the best theory so far - and the one that makes the most sense given what we know (to me, anyway ;) ).
Edited by Switch, Apr 8 2014, 10:01:57 AM.
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Memphis86
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It cant be an hallucination, watch the first first first trailer when moby dick studios announced the game, ishmael was driving the car in where they roll over, how ahallucination can drive?
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Switch
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Memphis86
Apr 8 2014, 08:33:54 PM
It cant be an hallucination, watch the first first first trailer when moby dick studios announced the game, ishmael was driving the car in where they roll over, how ahallucination can drive?
Because what's shown isn't necessarily what's happening. See Fight Club. :P
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blingmonkeys
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SilvergreyEagle
Apr 8 2014, 02:21:30 AM
I'm not taking any credit as most of this information comes from a collection of youtube theorists, and this makes a great point I want to address that everyone should know regarding Ishmael and the hospital scene.

If you listen carefully, It seems that the voice of Ishmael is voiced by the same guy who now voices Big Boss; Kiefer Sutherland. Now I am aware of the whole Gray Fox theory with Ishmael and so on, although I don't think that is the case, I believe its a more "simpler" explanation and believable, that Ishmael is indeed Big Boss himself portrayed, whether it being a hallucination or a figment of his imagination in a "dream sequence", his own subconscious guiding him. Kojima does everything of no coincidence, very sneakingly, and I mention that because in the trailer, Big Boss directly asks, "who are you", and Ishmael points at him, and says he has been watching over him for 9 years. No doubt that after being asked who he is, the pointing towards Big Boss means "I am you", and the "watching over you for 9 years" also seems to hint that he is his own subconscious "guiding" him if you will. Because it does not make sense for Ishmael to be literally watching over him in a hospital when he himself seems like a patient, it does not make sense. Another fine point is his actual bandages wrapped around his face covering his identity, as he is the only one with a face covered, this could mean distortion that's projected from Big Boss, a blurry image, mainly because that's his own subconscious that he has had during that 9 year coma. (If it is actually 9 years). It does make sense.

Again this is not my own theory, but someone else's to the point I recognize it to be one of the greatest points regarding Ishmael, that I feel to make it recognized. But in the end we will see.
We have being discussing the whole ishmael theory over here - enjoy! ^_^

http://mgsforums.com/topic/7667851/20/#new
Edited by blingmonkeys, Apr 8 2014, 11:57:42 PM.
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DaPhantomSnake
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Ok here's my crazy Outlandish preposterous conspiracy theory!!! The Bandaged Man is Big Boss And the person that is waking from the coma is a Man named Ishmael. Who is in fact a clone of Big Boss. The Genome Soldier Clone. The first of the genome soldiers that would later be used during the shadow Moses incident. And I think Big Boss need him alive so he can form the basis of Big Boss's new unit the Diamond Dogs. We play the entire game as Ishmael. The forgotten clone!!!!! And Ground Zeroes is a virtual reality simulation that was used to make Ishmael believe he was Big Boss meanwhile everybody thinks Ishmael is the real big boss when in fact he is just a clone and the Real Big Boss is in the shadows looking for a way to kill Zero. I really wouldn't put it past kojima to do something this outrageous considering he replaced snake with raiden in mgs2. Hopefully I'm wrong about it but something tells me we are not going to be playing as Big Boss in TPP
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DMFox
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DaPhantomSnake
May 1 2014, 09:52:39 PM
Ok here's my crazy Outlandish preposterous conspiracy theory!!! The Bandaged Man is Big Boss And the person that is waking from the coma is a Man named Ishmael. Who is in fact a clone of Big Boss. The Genome Soldier Clone. The first of the genome soldiers that would later be used during the shadow Moses incident. And I think Big Boss need him alive so he can form the basis of Big Boss's new unit the Diamond Dogs. We play the entire game as Ishmael. The forgotten clone!!!!! And Ground Zeroes is a virtual reality simulation that was used to make Ishmael believe he was Big Boss meanwhile everybody thinks Ishmael is the real big boss when in fact he is just a clone and the Real Big Boss is in the shadows looking for a way to kill Zero. I really wouldn't put it past kojima to do something this outrageous considering he replaced snake with raiden in mgs2. Hopefully I'm wrong about it but something tells me we are not going to be playing as Big Boss in TPP
Body double, VR theory...

You really want a game about the downfall of BB to be a VR simulation experienced by someone else? A "random clone" who is of no importance to the story?

This is meant to be how BB falls to "the dark side". And you want that to be the cause of someone elses actions? not BB's own psychological downfall? The WHOLE point of the game?
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DaPhantomSnake
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DMFox
May 1 2014, 09:55:53 PM
DaPhantomSnake
May 1 2014, 09:52:39 PM
Ok here's my crazy Outlandish preposterous conspiracy theory!!! The Bandaged Man is Big Boss And the person that is waking from the coma is a Man named Ishmael. Who is in fact a clone of Big Boss. The Genome Soldier Clone. The first of the genome soldiers that would later be used during the shadow Moses incident. And I think Big Boss need him alive so he can form the basis of Big Boss's new unit the Diamond Dogs. We play the entire game as Ishmael. The forgotten clone!!!!! And Ground Zeroes is a virtual reality simulation that was used to make Ishmael believe he was Big Boss meanwhile everybody thinks Ishmael is the real big boss when in fact he is just a clone and the Real Big Boss is in the shadows looking for a way to kill Zero. I really wouldn't put it past kojima to do something this outrageous considering he replaced snake with raiden in mgs2. Hopefully I'm wrong about it but something tells me we are not going to be playing as Big Boss in TPP
Body double, VR theory...

You really want a game about the downfall of BB to be a VR simulation experienced by someone else? A "random clone" who is of no importance to the story?

This is meant to be how BB falls to "the dark side". And you want that to be the cause of someone elses actions? not BB's own psychological downfall? The WHOLE point of the game?
I definitely don't want it to be like that..That would really suck. I just think that all is not what it seems to be. Everyone is either saying Ishmael is Grey Fox or Solidus or a Hallucination or the Medic or whoever. But Kojima is the king of Trolls. Have you forgotten about MGS 2? WTF did Raiden have to do with any of it?? Raiden didn't belong at all yet MGS2 happened. I'm hoping that my theory is wrong but don't be ignorant to the fact that Kojima has done that before. I want to play as Big Boss and see how he became the antagonist in Metal Gear I would absolutely love that. But I also wanted to play as The legendary Solid Snake in MGS2 and look how that turned out. The point behind my theory which is purposely preposterous is for those reading it to think outside the box. Kojima could be setting us all up for a giant GIANT twist that nobody sees coming. Did anyone really see Raiden coming? Absolutely not. Kojima has us all looking at one thing while he's at work doing another. My point- think outside the Box
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DMFox
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Oh, I know something is off, believe me. It's jsut a matter of what, but i seriously don't think he will remove the main point of the game... like that.

I feel there will be some wtf moments (good and not so good), but I don't think he'll screw the game over that bad...
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DaPhantomSnake
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Let's hope
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Kelesis
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DaPhantomSnake
May 1 2014, 09:52:39 PM
I really wouldn't put it past kojima to do something this outrageous considering he replaced snake with raiden in mgs2.
Ah, the source rears it's ugly head again :roy:
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Kulbelbolka
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I really hope that Ishmael is not hallucination, because same plot twist is already in Call of Duty: Black Ops with the very similar setting.
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Trigsby
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DMFox
May 1 2014, 09:55:53 PM
DaPhantomSnake
May 1 2014, 09:52:39 PM
Ok here's my crazy Outlandish preposterous conspiracy theory!!! The Bandaged Man is Big Boss And the person that is waking from the coma is a Man named Ishmael. Who is in fact a clone of Big Boss. The Genome Soldier Clone. The first of the genome soldiers that would later be used during the shadow Moses incident. And I think Big Boss need him alive so he can form the basis of Big Boss's new unit the Diamond Dogs. We play the entire game as Ishmael. The forgotten clone!!!!! And Ground Zeroes is a virtual reality simulation that was used to make Ishmael believe he was Big Boss meanwhile everybody thinks Ishmael is the real big boss when in fact he is just a clone and the Real Big Boss is in the shadows looking for a way to kill Zero. I really wouldn't put it past kojima to do something this outrageous considering he replaced snake with raiden in mgs2. Hopefully I'm wrong about it but something tells me we are not going to be playing as Big Boss in TPP
Body double, VR theory...

You really want a game about the downfall of BB to be a VR simulation experienced by someone else? A "random clone" who is of no importance to the story?

This is meant to be how BB falls to "the dark side". And you want that to be the cause of someone elses actions? not BB's own psychological downfall? The WHOLE point of the game?
Those theories are super annoying, honestly don't get why people are actually building on them.

This dude has an interesting, (and logical) theory as to how the medic in the chopper is Ishmael.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmHfxgM3MNA

Edited by Trigsby, May 2 2014, 11:29:02 PM.
Youtube
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Kulbelbolka
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Trigsby
May 2 2014, 11:28:20 PM
DMFox
May 1 2014, 09:55:53 PM
DaPhantomSnake
May 1 2014, 09:52:39 PM
Ok here's my crazy Outlandish preposterous conspiracy theory!!! The Bandaged Man is Big Boss And the person that is waking from the coma is a Man named Ishmael. Who is in fact a clone of Big Boss. The Genome Soldier Clone. The first of the genome soldiers that would later be used during the shadow Moses incident. And I think Big Boss need him alive so he can form the basis of Big Boss's new unit the Diamond Dogs. We play the entire game as Ishmael. The forgotten clone!!!!! And Ground Zeroes is a virtual reality simulation that was used to make Ishmael believe he was Big Boss meanwhile everybody thinks Ishmael is the real big boss when in fact he is just a clone and the Real Big Boss is in the shadows looking for a way to kill Zero. I really wouldn't put it past kojima to do something this outrageous considering he replaced snake with raiden in mgs2. Hopefully I'm wrong about it but something tells me we are not going to be playing as Big Boss in TPP
Body double, VR theory...

You really want a game about the downfall of BB to be a VR simulation experienced by someone else? A "random clone" who is of no importance to the story?

This is meant to be how BB falls to "the dark side". And you want that to be the cause of someone elses actions? not BB's own psychological downfall? The WHOLE point of the game?
Those theories are super annoying, honestly don't get why people are actually building on them.

This dude has an interesting, (and logical) theory as to how the medic in the chopper is Ishmael.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmHfxgM3MNA

Guess where did he get all this arguments from.
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steeleman
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I know for a fact the Medic is Ishmael. I will be pleasantly surprised if it's not.
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