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First post. Just a few personal theories based off the new trailer.
Topic Started: Jun 9 2014, 11:33:56 PM (3,597 Views)
Trigsby
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Don't fight it.
Like Troy Baker said, the scope of this game looks to be immense. So many parts of the story I can't wait to see.
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StealthyOne
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The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:06:37 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:04:14 AM
The Doctor
Jun 9 2014, 11:55:57 PM
Trigsby
Jun 9 2014, 11:54:35 PM
I think Boss tells him he's his Dad, and he gets a little upset by that.
I mean, he could know. He could be sent a picture of his dad, but not even Solid Snake knew until Big Boss told him himself...I don't think Big Boss will know until he finds some skeletons in his closet
This is a good point. And if you remember the phone call between Kaz and Zero at the end of PW, Kaz mentions something about the clones. I wonder how that will hash out in the game. Or if Kojima will just omit that part from the plot line. Who knows. I think it would be an interesting development though to see the three of them together and how they react.
I think it would make sense for the separation of Kaz and Big Boss because Kaz, 15 years later, would call Big Boss a monster...I mean, unless it is siding with Skullface after finding out it was XOF destroying Mother Base (The cremation scenes, it could be a sign of disrespect in Kaz's eyes), I don't know what else...Like Big Boss could threaten Kaz, claim why he could betray him
That's something else we'll have to see pan out. Eventually Kaz goes on to train Solid and become a survival expert or whatever. If he becomes a "good guy" later on then that would mean he had some kind of change of heart somewhere. Maybe Big Boss starts taking things too far. For example he could become so overshadowed by his hatred for zero that it surpasses normal revenge. Leading BB to somewhat forgive Skullface and team up with him for the common goal of destroying cipher. Kaz could see this as betrayal considering that Skullface was behind the attack at mother base. He realizes that BB is too far gone and walks away from it all.

But that's all just speculation. It has me scratching my head because in some scenes it would appear that Kaz is more hell bent on revenge then BB is. hmm.
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"He who dares, wins."
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The Doctor
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Welcome to Outer Heaven
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:13:07 AM
The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:06:37 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:04:14 AM
The Doctor
Jun 9 2014, 11:55:57 PM
Trigsby
Jun 9 2014, 11:54:35 PM
I think Boss tells him he's his Dad, and he gets a little upset by that.
I mean, he could know. He could be sent a picture of his dad, but not even Solid Snake knew until Big Boss told him himself...I don't think Big Boss will know until he finds some skeletons in his closet
This is a good point. And if you remember the phone call between Kaz and Zero at the end of PW, Kaz mentions something about the clones. I wonder how that will hash out in the game. Or if Kojima will just omit that part from the plot line. Who knows. I think it would be an interesting development though to see the three of them together and how they react.
I think it would make sense for the separation of Kaz and Big Boss because Kaz, 15 years later, would call Big Boss a monster...I mean, unless it is siding with Skullface after finding out it was XOF destroying Mother Base (The cremation scenes, it could be a sign of disrespect in Kaz's eyes), I don't know what else...Like Big Boss could threaten Kaz, claim why he could betray him
That's something else we'll have to see pan out. Eventually Kaz goes on to train Solid and become a survival expert or whatever. If he becomes a "good guy" later on then that would mean he had some kind of change of heart somewhere. Maybe Big Boss starts taking things too far. For example he could become so overshadowed by his hatred for zero that it surpasses normal revenge. Leading BB to somewhat forgive Skullface and team up with him for the common goal of destroying cipher. Kaz could see this as betrayal considering that Skullface was behind the attack at mother base. He realizes that BB is too far gone and walks away from it all.

But that's all just speculation. It has me scratching my head because in some scenes it would appear that Kaz is more hell bent on revenge then BB is. hmm.
Thats what I mean. I mean, all those people that Kaz lost, all those men who lost their lives at Mother Base, all because of Skullface. He could get word on this and then, Big Boss is friends with him to take out Zero and Miller is like...You fucking kidding me? How many men did we cremate because of that asshole?
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
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Trigsby
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Don't fight it.
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But that's all just speculation. It has me scratching my head because in some scenes it would appear that Kaz is more hell bent on revenge then BB is. hmm.


That's what I've been thinking a lot about too. Especially after they escape Mother Base at the end of GZ, Kaz is furious whereas Snake is quiet and not aggressive towards Paz. It's gonna be interesting to see Snake & Kaz's separation and what causes it. I'd agree and say Snake probably does some fucked up shit, so we are probably gonna see a massive mental breakdown from him in this game. I dunno.
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StealthyOne
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The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:15:45 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:13:07 AM
The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:06:37 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:04:14 AM
The Doctor
Jun 9 2014, 11:55:57 PM
Trigsby
Jun 9 2014, 11:54:35 PM
I think Boss tells him he's his Dad, and he gets a little upset by that.
I mean, he could know. He could be sent a picture of his dad, but not even Solid Snake knew until Big Boss told him himself...I don't think Big Boss will know until he finds some skeletons in his closet
This is a good point. And if you remember the phone call between Kaz and Zero at the end of PW, Kaz mentions something about the clones. I wonder how that will hash out in the game. Or if Kojima will just omit that part from the plot line. Who knows. I think it would be an interesting development though to see the three of them together and how they react.
I think it would make sense for the separation of Kaz and Big Boss because Kaz, 15 years later, would call Big Boss a monster...I mean, unless it is siding with Skullface after finding out it was XOF destroying Mother Base (The cremation scenes, it could be a sign of disrespect in Kaz's eyes), I don't know what else...Like Big Boss could threaten Kaz, claim why he could betray him
That's something else we'll have to see pan out. Eventually Kaz goes on to train Solid and become a survival expert or whatever. If he becomes a "good guy" later on then that would mean he had some kind of change of heart somewhere. Maybe Big Boss starts taking things too far. For example he could become so overshadowed by his hatred for zero that it surpasses normal revenge. Leading BB to somewhat forgive Skullface and team up with him for the common goal of destroying cipher. Kaz could see this as betrayal considering that Skullface was behind the attack at mother base. He realizes that BB is too far gone and walks away from it all.

But that's all just speculation. It has me scratching my head because in some scenes it would appear that Kaz is more hell bent on revenge then BB is. hmm.
Thats what I mean. I mean, all those people that Kaz lost, all those men who lost their lives at Mother Base, all because of Skullface. He could get word on this and then, Big Boss is friends with him to take out Zero and Miller is like...You fucking kidding me? How many men did we cremate because of that asshole?
Exactly. It's fun to speculate but I hope we're wrong. Don't wanna figure it all out before we play it haha.

Also, does anyone know who Eli's VA is? I really want to hear Eli speak so I can get a better judge of what his character will be like.
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The Doctor
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Welcome to Outer Heaven
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:18:40 AM
The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:15:45 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:13:07 AM
The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:06:37 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:04:14 AM
The Doctor
Jun 9 2014, 11:55:57 PM
Trigsby
Jun 9 2014, 11:54:35 PM
I think Boss tells him he's his Dad, and he gets a little upset by that.
I mean, he could know. He could be sent a picture of his dad, but not even Solid Snake knew until Big Boss told him himself...I don't think Big Boss will know until he finds some skeletons in his closet
This is a good point. And if you remember the phone call between Kaz and Zero at the end of PW, Kaz mentions something about the clones. I wonder how that will hash out in the game. Or if Kojima will just omit that part from the plot line. Who knows. I think it would be an interesting development though to see the three of them together and how they react.
I think it would make sense for the separation of Kaz and Big Boss because Kaz, 15 years later, would call Big Boss a monster...I mean, unless it is siding with Skullface after finding out it was XOF destroying Mother Base (The cremation scenes, it could be a sign of disrespect in Kaz's eyes), I don't know what else...Like Big Boss could threaten Kaz, claim why he could betray him
That's something else we'll have to see pan out. Eventually Kaz goes on to train Solid and become a survival expert or whatever. If he becomes a "good guy" later on then that would mean he had some kind of change of heart somewhere. Maybe Big Boss starts taking things too far. For example he could become so overshadowed by his hatred for zero that it surpasses normal revenge. Leading BB to somewhat forgive Skullface and team up with him for the common goal of destroying cipher. Kaz could see this as betrayal considering that Skullface was behind the attack at mother base. He realizes that BB is too far gone and walks away from it all.

But that's all just speculation. It has me scratching my head because in some scenes it would appear that Kaz is more hell bent on revenge then BB is. hmm.
Thats what I mean. I mean, all those people that Kaz lost, all those men who lost their lives at Mother Base, all because of Skullface. He could get word on this and then, Big Boss is friends with him to take out Zero and Miller is like...You fucking kidding me? How many men did we cremate because of that asshole?
Exactly. It's fun to speculate but I hope we're wrong. Don't wanna figure it all out before we play it haha.

Also, does anyone know who Eli's VA is? I really want to hear Eli speak so I can get a better judge of what his character will be like.
Apparently, the VA is British...Now that adds more heat to the rumour
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
The Gifs of Karen Gillan
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StealthyOne
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Light Infantry
The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:21:02 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:18:40 AM
The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:15:45 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:13:07 AM
The Doctor
Jun 10 2014, 12:06:37 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:04:14 AM
The Doctor
Jun 9 2014, 11:55:57 PM

Quoting limited to 7 levels deep
This is a good point. And if you remember the phone call between Kaz and Zero at the end of PW, Kaz mentions something about the clones. I wonder how that will hash out in the game. Or if Kojima will just omit that part from the plot line. Who knows. I think it would be an interesting development though to see the three of them together and how they react.
I think it would make sense for the separation of Kaz and Big Boss because Kaz, 15 years later, would call Big Boss a monster...I mean, unless it is siding with Skullface after finding out it was XOF destroying Mother Base (The cremation scenes, it could be a sign of disrespect in Kaz's eyes), I don't know what else...Like Big Boss could threaten Kaz, claim why he could betray him
That's something else we'll have to see pan out. Eventually Kaz goes on to train Solid and become a survival expert or whatever. If he becomes a "good guy" later on then that would mean he had some kind of change of heart somewhere. Maybe Big Boss starts taking things too far. For example he could become so overshadowed by his hatred for zero that it surpasses normal revenge. Leading BB to somewhat forgive Skullface and team up with him for the common goal of destroying cipher. Kaz could see this as betrayal considering that Skullface was behind the attack at mother base. He realizes that BB is too far gone and walks away from it all.

But that's all just speculation. It has me scratching my head because in some scenes it would appear that Kaz is more hell bent on revenge then BB is. hmm.
Thats what I mean. I mean, all those people that Kaz lost, all those men who lost their lives at Mother Base, all because of Skullface. He could get word on this and then, Big Boss is friends with him to take out Zero and Miller is like...You fucking kidding me? How many men did we cremate because of that asshole?
Exactly. It's fun to speculate but I hope we're wrong. Don't wanna figure it all out before we play it haha.

Also, does anyone know who Eli's VA is? I really want to hear Eli speak so I can get a better judge of what his character will be like.
Apparently, the VA is British...Now that adds more heat to the rumour
HA. That certainly adds fuel to the fire. Maybe Kojima is purposefully not showing his voice in the trailers because he wants to surprise us. Even though we've probably already figured it out. lol.

By the way, how do I only quote one part of a convo instead of the whole thing on here? Not trying to take up an entire page with our banter, Doctor. haha.
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The Doctor
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Welcome to Outer Heaven
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 12:29:52 AM
HA. That certainly adds fuel to the fire. Maybe Kojima is purposefully not showing his voice in the trailers because he wants to surprise us. Even though we've probably already figured it out. lol.

By the way, how do I only quote one part of a convo instead of the whole thing on here? Not trying to take up an entire page with our banter, Doctor. haha.
Just remove as much as the text you want on the quoting box until you find your text you want appearing
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
The Gifs of Karen Gillan
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DangersOfDP
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I'm saying Kaz walks away from BB because BB sides with Skull Face. The trailer clearly implies that BB starts to unite with Skull Face (just like I said months ago, people told me there was no way in hell, oh well) to further a common goal.

Kaz is absolutely hell bent on revenge, YES. That's why he walks away from BB. He wants to achieve revenge against the person who wronged them. But BB aligns with that person because of some other goal he wants to achieve. Probably erasing Cipher and bringing his vision of The Boss' will to life.

Kaz sees that BB doesn't even care anymore about their original goal of simple revenge and avenging their fallen brothers, and instead commits horrible atrocities just in the name of making Outer Heaven grow even bigger.


I am so stoked for the Liquid scenes. Seriously, Kojima needs to bring on the clones in this game. The past MG games almost completely ignore LET and the clones, when this is in fact one of the major plot points in the series. I don't want some post credits "oh yeah, by the way, this happend in that year, pretty cool, huh?" but full CUTSCENES with the clones. They need to be a core part of the story. This is Kojima's chance to make the future events seem even more dramatic or ironic, depending on the events during MGS5. If we don't see that much of the clones, it'll be a wasted opportunity. But apparently, Kojima knows this, because he included a very dramatic shot of BB and Liquid, struggling against each other, with lots of action and interaction going on. That's what I wanna see. Show me what influenced Liquid. Show me Solidus (maybe). And of course: Show us Solid, for goodness' sake. He was trained by BB. So please, show him, Kojima.
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StealthyOne
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DangersOfDP
Jun 10 2014, 12:51:29 AM
But apparently, Kojima knows this, because he included a very dramatic shot of BB and Liquid, struggling against each other, with lots of action and interaction going on. That's what I wanna see. Show me what influenced Liquid. Show me Solidus (maybe). And of course: Show us Solid, for goodness' sake. He was trained by BB. So please, show him, Kojima.
If Solid were to be in the game, I think that's something even Kojima wouldn't spoil in a trailer. He would definitely save that as a surprise, knowing how bad the fans want it. But even still, it might not happen.
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blingmonkeys
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@DangersOfDP good observation, I think I do remember a few predicting Skull Face x BB vs. Zero. But do we understand why? It seems that the trailer demonstrated a war against self rather than any distinct enemy. Apart from the past we cannot perceive Zero's current threat, yet we have to believe it is there and been fortified to an extent to bring forth these wild (far from logical/ human) decisions BB is making.

Perhaps part of Zero's current threat comes from the LET project?

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StealthyOne
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blingmonkeys
Jun 10 2014, 01:07:50 AM
@DangersOfDP good observation, I think I do remember a few predicting Skull Face x BB vs. Zero. But do we understand why? It seems that the trailer demonstrated a war against self rather than any distinct enemy. Apart from the past we cannot perceive Zero's current threat, yet we have to believe it is there and been fortified to an extent to bring forth these wild (far from logical/ human) decisions BB is making.

Perhaps part of Zero's current threat comes from the LET project?

I would say we might see the beginnings of SOP, and that could be Zero's wild card. SOP could be the "weapon to surpass metal gear." And maybe zero is in Africa developing it or something. I really hope we get to see Zero in the game. He's been in the background for pretty much the entire series. It would be really awesome to see an interaction between BB and Zero in this game. Plus it'd be cool to see Zero on the fox engine and have his character be of a completely different mindset than that of MGS3, which is pretty much all we have to go on right now.
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blingmonkeys
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StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 01:28:49 AM


[/quoteI really hope we get to see Zero in the game. He's been in the background for pretty much the entire series. It would be really awesome to see an interaction between BB and Zero in this game. Plus it'd be cool to see Zero on the fox engine and have his character be of a completely different mindset than that of MGS3, which is pretty much all we have to go on right now.
This is how I feel too, watching all these trailers I'm just like where is Zero? His name could be somewhat proleptic, in the sense that they are fighting an idea rather than an actual being.
Edited by blingmonkeys, Jun 10 2014, 01:58:33 AM.
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StealthyOne
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blingmonkeys
Jun 10 2014, 01:58:06 AM
This is how I feel too, watching all these trailers I'm just like where is Zero? His name could be somewhat proleptic, in the sense that they are fighting an idea rather than an actual being.
Exactly. Like we seem as a goodie in MGS3 and then you see him as a vegetable. He basically has no character development at all that isnt behind the scenes.
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StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 02:09:55 AM
Exactly. Like we seem as a goodie in MGS3 and then you see him as a vegetable. He basically has no character development at all that isnt behind the scenes.
This is a big problem with his character so far that MGSV needs to address. He needs to be properly developed in such a way that is consistent with the huge impact his character has on the events of the game.
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StealthyOne
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Jun 10 2014, 02:45:13 AM
StealthyOne
Jun 10 2014, 02:09:55 AM
Exactly. Like we seem as a goodie in MGS3 and then you see him as a vegetable. He basically has no character development at all that isnt behind the scenes.
This is a big problem with his character so far that MGSV needs to address. He needs to be properly developed in such a way that is consistent with the huge impact his character has on the events of the game.
Honestly, it can be assumed that Kojima probably ran short of ideas and decided to make Zero the big bad guy just to have something to keep the games coming. After all, he said he wanted MGS3 to be his last game. But fans wanted more and MGS4 was what we got. Dont get me wrong, i love MGS4 and the story. But it's obviously thrown together a little sloppily. So now I feel like he's bitten off a little more than he can chew. MGSV is his chance to redeem Zero's character, in my opinion. So i hope he doesnt disappoint.
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I actually like that Zero became one of the series' main antagonists, especially when considering that it directly supports the MGS3 theme of enemies being relative. I just think that his character desperately needs to be fleshed out; going from a comic James Bond fan to an egomaniac who has effectively taken over the world without any characterisation in-between isn't quite good enough.
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Heisenberg
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Jun 10 2014, 03:07:09 AM
I actually like that Zero became one of the series' main antagonists, especially when considering that it directly supports the MGS3 theme of enemies being relative. I just think that his character desperately needs to be fleshed out; going from a comic James Bond fan to an egomaniac who has effectively taken over the world without any characterisation in-between isn't quite good enough.
Welcome to the club of...well one member.

Zero being the villain was awful, regardless of some poorly contrived reasoning some fans make for it.
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abstract-one
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He probably just wanted the villain/founding Patriots to be someone, any character really, that had already been introduced, for the sake of having that be a twist.

To be captain hindsight he should have made more of the Big Boss prequels before even attempting to create a sequel to MGS2. That way some better candidates for the 'founding Patriots' could have been created instead of shoehorning the support team from MGS3 in to the role.

I'm kinda fine living with the story decisions made in MGS4, although they are lamentable, in terms of my ability to enjoy the rest of the series.

Since whats done is done, I don't understand why some people don't think Zero should be in MGSV at all, since he is the villain and we do need to see how he has changed since MGS3. You can't just pretend he isn't the villain when he is mentioned constantly, MGSV just needs to own up to it or reboot the series properly. Only referencing him is stupid.
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Devil Boss
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I liked the idea of Cipher in Ground Zeroes. Sort of a Phantom Menace behind the scenes, yet still present and frightening. Paz seems clearly afraid of him, Skullface and BB are looking for him without success, the whole prison camp, the ending...
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