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| Protagonist and player relationship in The Phantom Pain; Some thoughts after last trailer | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 11 2014, 02:15:02 AM (2,178 Views) | |
| Kulbelbolka | Jun 11 2014, 02:15:02 AM Post #1 |
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Light Infantry
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Now after I watched last trailer I have very strange feeling about The Phantom Pain and it's narrative. I'll try to explain. Protagonists in videogames are avatars of the players. Some of them have their own personalities (like in MGS) and some of them is just empty suits without voice and little known facts (like in Half-Life). Two different approaches to immerse player into the game's world. In MGS case, protagonist was always a continuation of player's will - you and Solid Snake/Big Boss/Raiden enter in some kind of symbiosis and act as one person. Some sort of synchronization - you interact with the game's world through protagonist, you are like a ghost that partly posses game's hero. After I saw this new trailer, I think that the game will have one giant problem of biblical proportions (aka C.L.U.S.T.E.R.F.U.C.K.) - me (the player) and the Snake won't be on the same side. And it ruins everything on so many levels. Snake is obviously losing it - he covers his face with ashes of fallen brothers in arms, kills his own people at several scenes, makes some kind of alliance with Skull Face and looks like beaten piece of meat. Trailer of previous year made me feel that it's Kaz who want to arrange mass murder of Cipher people and set the world on fire, while Big Boss stayed somehow morally neutral, like he get the message and he must be more careful this time and that was good for me, but now it's obvious that our new Venom Snake is psychopath filled with hatred and depression. I won't be surprised if player will even lose control over him through gameplay moments and he will do some crazy shit, because he is losing his mind (aka Player's Control). Problem is - I don't feel the same way as Big Boss. I don't want kill my own people, don't want to have friendship with Skull Face, don't want to make diamonds from the ashes of dead comrades and sold them to sponsor my revengeful war against Zero. I just want to build my private army and kill fucking Skull Face for what he did in Ground Zeroes, nothing more. MGS was always linear series of videogames in terms of the story. You could make several choices sometimes, but they didn't affect the whole picture (Meryl and Otacon are both alive in MGS4, you know). So either The Phantom Pain will provide us with some serious choices that will significantly affect the story (to became monstrous Big Boss from scary tales of Patriots propaganda or to stay a human being after all, a misunderstood visionary of mercenary business), either it will force us to become The Big Boss from that trailer - psychopath covered with blood, already a demon, etc. If I'm not mistaken, it's called ludonarrative dissonance and it's well presented in Bioshock series, for example. I mean why go on full stealth and non-lethal approach if you end up as mass murderer and the Devil himself? Why should I tear my ass for S-Rank and rescue prisoners if it all ends bad? So my hopes are: 1) It's the trailer montage filled with mind traps to misinterpret things - remember scene from the E3 2013 trailer when Snake choked Chico? It looked like Snake trying to kill him in anger and only in Ground Zeroes we saw that it was vice versa situation. 2) Story will provide us with meaningful choices to became a monster of to stay Big Boss that we know and love. That would be perfect, but I don't think that it will be the presented. 3) If both previous hopes are just a wet dreams than Kojima must make me feel absolute necessity to transform my old buddy Big Boss in Dr. Evil. And I have lots of doubts that he can make it. P.S. Again about friendship with Skull Face - if it's because Snake don't know that it's Skull Face who destroyed Motherbase on his own, without Zero's approval, than it's total bullshit, because player know already from Ground Zeroes what happened, through audiotapes. I really hope that there is an explanation for this, like Big Baws playing Skull Face like a damn fiddle or else. If don't that it's another side of the same problem I told you about - while player knows everything, Big Boss still don't and there is no way to tell him. It's interactive medium god damn it, not horror movie for teenager when you scream "HE IS RIGHT BEHIND YOU, STUPID ASSHOLE", but he can't hear you. |
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| Revolver_FOX | Jun 11 2014, 02:19:56 AM Post #2 |
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This Is Good, Isn't It?
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Hideo Kojima stated multiple times that snake doesn't talk much due to the fact that he wants the player to feel like it's his snake. So I'm sure you will have a lot of freedom on how it plays out. Kojima is the master of trolling an smoke and mirrors. I'm sure he didn't kill that camp of kids on purpose. I'm sure their are reasons to these scenarios . But when it comes down to it, this game is the downfall of Big Boss We all know this, and obviously some shit is going to happen. Edited by Revolver_FOX, Jun 11 2014, 02:20:40 AM.
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![]() MGSV: GZ / TPP Ghost Runs PSN: Revolver_XOF | |
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| trimegadon | Jun 11 2014, 02:27:14 AM Post #3 |
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all out.
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War is no fun.Thats i why i love everything about this MGS.
Edited by trimegadon, Jun 11 2014, 02:29:19 AM.
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![]() SHADOW MOSES | |
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| Hakola | Jun 11 2014, 02:30:12 AM Post #4 |
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Heavily-Armed Trooper
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I -want- to see Big Boss become the villain. That's what we've been waiting for since MGS3, so it's about time. Also, the memorial diamonds from the fallen comrades most likely won't be what's funding them, because creating diamonds from dead people is probably not a way to earn cash. I'm guessing his horn might be a giant cremation-diamond, which would be sweet. In the end I have a feeling it'll be somewhat justified and not very black and white. But Big Boss must fall, and I want to be there when it happens. |
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"Who the hell are you!?" "Hurt me, Snake! HURT ME MORE!" "GRAY FOX!" | |
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| Bladewolf | Jun 11 2014, 03:15:01 AM Post #5 |
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kojima is incredible! how the fuck have i not seen that?!
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Some people like it, one doesnt choose to be a soldier to throw flowers you know. |
| Karma's a bitch, huh? Fucking hack | |
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| Kulbelbolka | Jun 11 2014, 03:36:29 AM Post #6 |
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Light Infantry
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Some people missing the point of my post. I'm not against Big Boss becoming a villain, I'm against tearing the ties with player. In other words - when the moment will come I must be 100% sure that there was no other way to make it different for Big Boss. For now, I see some things at the trailer that "my" Big Boss would never do, like he is not my avatar in game's world anymore. But we'll wait and see, I guess. |
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| Heisenberg | Jun 11 2014, 03:37:28 AM Post #7 |
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MGSF Patriot
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Are you unable to play GTA? |
FOX-HOUND Award
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| Revolver_FOX | Jun 11 2014, 03:40:21 AM Post #8 |
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This Is Good, Isn't It?
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I'm sure it will end and BB won't truly be evil It will be just how the world sees him. Most villains in MGS fall into they gray area |
![]() MGSV: GZ / TPP Ghost Runs PSN: Revolver_XOF | |
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| Heisenberg | Jun 11 2014, 03:41:45 AM Post #9 |
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MGSF Patriot
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Then it'll be a disappointment. |
FOX-HOUND Award
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| Revolver_FOX | Jun 11 2014, 03:44:30 AM Post #10 |
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This Is Good, Isn't It?
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I could be wrong but MGS has a way of making me See from the villains perspective. I hope BB goes off the deep end, Because the man he is in 3 and PW Does not line up with the BB of the future. I want some emotional climatic ending. Edited by Revolver_FOX, Jun 11 2014, 03:46:56 AM.
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![]() MGSV: GZ / TPP Ghost Runs PSN: Revolver_XOF | |
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| Agent | Jun 11 2014, 03:44:46 AM Post #11 |
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We played the villain in TLoU and that worked. |
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| Trigsby | Jun 11 2014, 03:46:09 AM Post #12 |
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Don't fight it.
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Have to agree with this, I think we'll see a loss of innocent life at his hands, for example, but not without him regretting it and feeling sorry. I don't think he'll remorselessly kill people without batting an eyelid. |
| Youtube | |
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| Switch | Jun 11 2014, 03:50:40 AM Post #13 |
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It reminds me somewhat of the end of The Last Of Us, where... Spoiler: click to toggle Despite coming to know Joel as a likeable and generally moral character, I thought what he was doing was entirely wrong and constituted remarkably poor judgement. Nevertheless, I definitely think that being the person controlling his actions in that situation is an extremely effective way of provoking players into evaluating them and their morally questionable nature. We could not stop Joel from doing what he was doing and, as the player, we could not avoid directly controlling him as he did what he did. With Big Boss in TPP, I expect Kojima is trying to achieve a similar result, and I'm all the more glad for it. I'd argue that there's no better way to highlight the morally questionable nature of the protagonist's actions than by having us be in direct control of their execution. We've played as Big Boss as a naive soldier who was willing to die to serve and protect his country, we've played as him as he has become an esteemed war veteran and now we're going to be directly involved in the events that make others see him as a ruthless and widely feared tyrant -- what better way than this to highlight the mistakes he has made?
Edited by Switch, Jun 11 2014, 03:51:28 AM.
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| Snake Eater | Jun 11 2014, 03:58:58 AM Post #14 |
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Take Your Heart
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I agree. I have nothing against the "misunderstood villain" character, but in this case the whole point of the game's story is to show Snake's downfall. I want to be angry or disturbed by his actions when I finish MGSV. Edited by Snake Eater, Jun 11 2014, 04:02:25 AM.
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![]() WAKE UP! GET UP! GET OUT THERE!! | |
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| Hakola | Jun 11 2014, 04:42:57 AM Post #15 |
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Heavily-Armed Trooper
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Oh, so you play as the villain in The Last of Us? That's great, because -- you know... some of us haven't finished it yet. ![]() Thanks. |
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"Who the hell are you!?" "Hurt me, Snake! HURT ME MORE!" "GRAY FOX!" | |
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| EmmGeeEss | Jun 11 2014, 06:43:04 AM Post #16 |
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WHAT, SWEEP?!
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The fact that we're going to be forced to do things that'll inevitably make us (perhaps too strong of a word, but it works if you apply it to the context of the game itself) hate Big Boss, and we are the ones that will be in control of these things, and will have to carry them out in order to proceed with the story, and will ultimately be our actions, is extremely appealing to me. I have to ask: Why must we always have be able to sympathise with the villain when the very worst of them deserve no sympathy? Do people have sympathy for all the arsehole dictators of the world who rule with an unruly iron fist, cause nothing but political unrest and treat the citizens of their country like dirt? No. Do people have sympathy for serial killers and rapists? No. Do people have sympathy for those who harm others for nothing but their own sick pleasure? No. (I don't like to draw comparisons between the aforementioned unspeakable acts and crimes and a character in a video game, but in terms of their alignment, it works.) Face it: Big Boss is becoming that Big Boss, and there ain't no way we're going to be able to sympathise with him. We're finally going to get to understand why people hated him so much and why he was considered evil. He isn't doing these things as an act of 'misguided will', or something like that. No, he's doing these things because he is fucking pissed, and he doesn't give a fuck. He is satisfying his bloodlust, doing whatever he wants, necessary or not. Shit's gonna get real, and I am fucking pumped! xx |
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| TheDankSnake | Jun 11 2014, 08:29:23 AM Post #17 |
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Colonel Kush
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I think ima be extremely entertained with what we might do in this game hahaha. Idk but throughout my life the villains in movies, books and games have really caught my attention and fascinated me (thus why im a raider fan) |
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| The Baneposter | Jun 11 2014, 09:48:25 AM Post #18 |
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Only me
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Sorry but this is not a case of a blank slate, not your Big Boss. MGS is a linear series when it comes to story, each character has their own defined traits and characteristics. Big Boss isn't a blank slate with a blank face you insert yourself onto, he's his own character. This won't severe the tie with the player, just like TLoU didn't severe the tie with the player as someone mentioned earlier. By giving you command over things, by it being YOU who pulls the trigger on that child soldier, it makes it all the more impactfull and stronger. |
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| Venture | Jun 11 2014, 12:15:02 PM Post #19 |
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mfw dante calls me a cunt
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I wish I had more opportunities in video games to be insane villains, im so tired of being well balanced heroes. edit: the protagonist is chico/quiet so it doesnt matter. Edited by Venture, Jun 11 2014, 12:15:52 PM.
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| Thermals! | Jun 11 2014, 12:37:03 PM Post #20 |
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=]
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Don't expect people to pussyfoot around spoilers when the game is a year old. |
| PEACE will come. | |
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1:18 AM Jul 11