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I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea..; I will always be with you. (A theory to upset Eagle)
Topic Started: Jun 11 2014, 05:08:44 AM (11,741 Views)
ShogunTake
Jail Guard
It makes me think, MGS4 pretty much only exists because of the massive demand, right? (death threats, obsessed fans and such) So I feel that along the way we could have gotten a much better/thought out MGS4 then we got. I mean at one point he was pretty much finished with MGS altogether yet obviously right now you can tell how much effort he's putting into TPP.

MGS4 was a great game but to me it could have been so much better.
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Hasa92
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Heavily-Armed Trooper
I liked MGS4 a lot, it's not my favourite MGS game but i like it a bit more than MGS, PO and i like it much, much more than PW. The main reason i liked MGS4 than those games was because it came with MGO2, which is one of the best online games i have ever played.

But Raiden really sucked in MGS4... I ways okay with him in MGS2 but trying to change him into another Cyborg Ninja just ruined his character, Frank Jaeger is the only proper MGS Cyborg Ninja to me.
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Kenny FastThumbs
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Light Infantry
ShogunTake
Jun 13 2014, 02:09:48 PM
It makes me think, MGS4 pretty much only exists because of the massive demand, right? (death threats, obsessed fans and such) So I feel that along the way we could have gotten a much better/thought out MGS4 then we got. I mean at one point he was pretty much finished with MGS altogether yet obviously right now you can tell how much effort he's putting into TPP.

MGS4 was a great game but to me it could have been so much better.
To me, MGS4 was a lesson in what can happen when ambition exceeds efficiency in game design.

This could well have been caused (at least partly) by external pressures during development, and yes, I agree that it could have been much better.

Quote:
 
The main reason i liked MGS4 than those games was because it came with MGO2, which is one of the best online games i have ever played.


I've played every MGS to death, but I've never played nor had any interest in playing MGO, so I can't comment on its quality. MGS has always been a puzzle game disguised as an action game to me. Formulating and executing creative strategies particularly in the stealth sections has always been my favourite part of MGS. I never had any interest in MGS as a deathmatch shooter. The last online shooter I enjoyed was Halo Reach, and by the end of that I had enough of moving the camera and squeezing the trigger. Street Fighter is the only competitive multiplayer game I'm interested in now.

Quote:
 
But Raiden really sucked in MGS4... I ways okay with him in MGS2 but trying to change him into another Cyborg Ninja just ruined his character, Frank Jaeger is the only proper MGS Cyborg Ninja to me.

I agree. Attempting to transplant Grey Fox's popularity onto the markedly unpopular Raiden never did anything for me. I preferred him in MGS2 because at least he felt like his own character rather than an imitation of another.
Edited by Kenny FastThumbs, Jun 13 2014, 02:56:45 PM.
Click here for delicious helpings of MGS with no added tranq!
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Nacktreiten
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JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a good character to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
Fixed that for you.
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Hakola
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Nacktreiten
Jun 13 2014, 02:58:46 PM
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a good character to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
Fixed that for you.
No, no.

I meant "whiny, arrogant asshat".

He felt kinda like Tidus from Final Fantasy X, in a way. He didn't fit.
"Who the hell are you!?"
"Hurt me, Snake! HURT ME MORE!"
"GRAY FOX!"
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Crimson Rex
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Sparkle Sparkle Sparkle
And how was Raiden arrogant?
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Bladewolf
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kojima is incredible! how the fuck have i not seen that?!
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a whiny, arrogant asshat to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
LOL at anyone selling Fox as a badass memorable character, loser gets his shit wrecked in every fight, he is the poster boy of overrated one note nostalgia character, the Boba Fett of the MGS series.

Its amazing how people bitch about raiden being a ''whiny'' character, but considers big boss a badass one, despite the fact he is the most linkin park angst ridden crybaby character in the entire series, a beard does wonders for a character i guess.
Edited by Bladewolf, Jun 13 2014, 08:33:12 PM.
Karma's a bitch, huh? Fucking hack
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Heisenberg
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Bladewolf
Jun 13 2014, 07:39:09 PM
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a whiny, arrogant asshat to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
LOL at anyone selling Fox as a badass memorable character, loser gets his shit wrecked in every fight, he is the poster boy of overrated one note nostalgia character, the Boba Fett of the MGS series.

Its amazing how people bitch about raiden being a ''whiny'' character, but considers big boss a badass one, despite the fact he is the most angst ridden crybaby character in the entire series, a beard does wonders for a character i guess.
You don't like Boba Fett?...
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TheDankSnake
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Colonel Kush
Inspector_Swag
Jun 13 2014, 08:03:52 PM
Bladewolf
Jun 13 2014, 07:39:09 PM
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a whiny, arrogant asshat to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
LOL at anyone selling Fox as a badass memorable character, loser gets his shit wrecked in every fight, he is the poster boy of overrated one note nostalgia character, the Boba Fett of the MGS series.

Its amazing how people bitch about raiden being a ''whiny'' character, but considers big boss a badass one, despite the fact he is the most angst ridden crybaby character in the entire series, a beard does wonders for a character i guess.
You don't like Boba Fett?...
Of course he doesnt its bladewolf! :D and as for BB being a whiny baby, i dont understand how he is like that at all. I get how we dont get to fully appreciate the relationship BB and the boss shared because of mgs3 simple storyline but we all know how big their bond was. So if you were placed in BBs shoes i bet you wouldnt be reacting that much different if you found out your country lied to you about the purpose of your mission and everything around it. As a matter of fact the position that he is in is thanks to the boss so i dont see a reason why he wouldnt be mentally tortured by her auora.
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Snake, history will never know what she did. No one will ever learn the truth. Her story, her debriefing... will endure only in your heart. Everything she did, she did for her country. She sacrificed her life and her honor for her native land. She was a real hero. She was a true patriot. - EVA
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Venture
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mfw dante calls me a cunt
dont talk shit about boba fett man.


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ADAMska87
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Bladewolf
Jun 13 2014, 07:39:09 PM
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a whiny, arrogant asshat to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
LOL at anyone selling Fox as a badass memorable character, loser gets his shit wrecked in every fight, he is the poster boy of overrated one note nostalgia character, the Boba Fett of the MGS series.

Its amazing how people bitch about raiden being a ''whiny'' character, but considers big boss a badass one, despite the fact he is the most linkin park angst ridden crybaby character in the entire series, a beard does wonders for a character i guess.
.....And now I see the the reason behind all the hate hahhha
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Arachnid
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Jail Guard
Bladewolf
Jun 13 2014, 07:39:09 PM
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a whiny, arrogant asshat to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
LOL at anyone selling Fox as a badass memorable character, loser gets his shit wrecked in every fight, he is the poster boy of overrated one note nostalgia character, the Boba Fett of the MGS series.

Its amazing how people bitch about raiden being a ''whiny'' character, but considers big boss a badass one, despite the fact he is the most linkin park angst ridden crybaby character in the entire series, a beard does wonders for a character i guess.
You mean the same guy who was a bit pissed when his base was destroyed and his army was wiped out but was over it by the next scene?

Or the same guy who had no reaction to being in a 9 year coma other than a few questions?

Or are you talking about how he was sad about having to kill the Boss for a span of two games (if you count portable ops) but got over it in the second one? Your right, he was only forced to kill his mother figure. What a whiner lol

To be honest, anyone who thinks Raiden is cool but thinks Gray Fox is lame and overrated (and considers Boba Fett the same) loses all credibility anyways.
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Heisenberg
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Arachnid
Jun 14 2014, 12:00:11 AM
Bladewolf
Jun 13 2014, 07:39:09 PM
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a whiny, arrogant asshat to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
LOL at anyone selling Fox as a badass memorable character, loser gets his shit wrecked in every fight, he is the poster boy of overrated one note nostalgia character, the Boba Fett of the MGS series.

Its amazing how people bitch about raiden being a ''whiny'' character, but considers big boss a badass one, despite the fact he is the most linkin park angst ridden crybaby character in the entire series, a beard does wonders for a character i guess.
You mean the same guy who was a bit pissed when his base was destroyed and his army was wiped out but was over it by the next scene?

Or the same guy who had no reaction to being in a 9 year coma other than a few questions?

Or are you talking about how he was sad about having to kill the Boss for a span of two games (if you count portable ops) but got over it in the second one? Your right, he was only forced to kill his mother figure. What a whiner lol

To be honest, anyone who thinks Raiden is cool but thinks Gray Fox is lame and overrated (and considers Boba Fett the same) loses all credibility anyways.
Don't talk shit about Raiden. He's far more developed and interesting in MGS2 alone than Big Boss has been from MGS3 and PW.
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Arachnid
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Inspector_Swag
Jun 14 2014, 12:10:48 AM
Arachnid
Jun 14 2014, 12:00:11 AM
Bladewolf
Jun 13 2014, 07:39:09 PM
JenniferNova
Jun 13 2014, 08:54:53 AM
Eagle
Jun 12 2014, 06:25:07 PM
Nacktreiten
Jun 12 2014, 06:10:56 PM
You're right, I do want him dead because he wasn't a very good character. He's more of a burden than anything, and in a game that's supposed to show Big Boss' face-heel turn having him around as dead weight would be horrible.
You assume that Chico might not change. Who's to say he won't become like Raiden? And just because you don't think he's a good character doesn't mean others don't.
How would him becoming like Raiden make him a good character?

Raiden went from a whiny, arrogant asshat to a second-rate Gray Fox-wannabe. :p

And Chico's only been a burden so far. I can see people really dislike him.
LOL at anyone selling Fox as a badass memorable character, loser gets his shit wrecked in every fight, he is the poster boy of overrated one note nostalgia character, the Boba Fett of the MGS series.

Its amazing how people bitch about raiden being a ''whiny'' character, but considers big boss a badass one, despite the fact he is the most linkin park angst ridden crybaby character in the entire series, a beard does wonders for a character i guess.
You mean the same guy who was a bit pissed when his base was destroyed and his army was wiped out but was over it by the next scene?

Or the same guy who had no reaction to being in a 9 year coma other than a few questions?

Or are you talking about how he was sad about having to kill the Boss for a span of two games (if you count portable ops) but got over it in the second one? Your right, he was only forced to kill his mother figure. What a whiner lol

To be honest, anyone who thinks Raiden is cool but thinks Gray Fox is lame and overrated (and considers Boba Fett the same) loses all credibility anyways.
Don't talk shit about Raiden. He's far more developed and interesting in MGS2 alone than Big Boss has been from MGS3 and PW.
We're probably gonna have to agree to disagree on that. Raiden was one character in MGS2 (who I actually liked) and then a completely different character in MGS4 (who was a massive step down. I don't call that development. They could have made him a completely new character in 4 and nothing would have felt out of place.

Big Boss, on the other hand, we actually see learn and develop throughout the series. Solid Snake is my favorite, but there is no denying that Big Boss has had the most character development of any character in the series.
Edited by Arachnid, Jun 14 2014, 01:01:19 AM.
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Heisenberg
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I said in MGS2. MGS4 Raiden rapes the character's point and development.
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Arachnid
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Inspector_Swag
Jun 14 2014, 01:05:27 AM
I said in MGS2. MGS4 Raiden rapes the character's point and development.
In that case, better. Still, more development that Big Boss in all his games combined is massively overreaching.
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Revolver_FOX
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This Is Good, Isn't It?
Lol this convo should make it's own thread.


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MGSV: GZ / TPP Ghost Runs

PSN: Revolver_XOF
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Heisenberg
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Arachnid
Jun 14 2014, 01:25:06 AM
Inspector_Swag
Jun 14 2014, 01:05:27 AM
I said in MGS2. MGS4 Raiden rapes the character's point and development.
In that case, better. Still, more development that Big Boss in all his games combined is massively overreaching.
Not at all. Naked Snake is possibly one of the most stagnant protagonists I've ever seen in MGS3. He is essentially the same person from beginning to conclusion of MGS3. The most characterization/growth was the tear and refusing to shake the DCI's hand.

PW he has actual development, but it still doesn't outweigh that of Raiden's in MGS2.
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Arachnid
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My bad, didn't mean to completely derail this haha.
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Revolver_FOX
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This Is Good, Isn't It?
Lol it's all good. It's been a great read.


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MGSV: GZ / TPP Ghost Runs

PSN: Revolver_XOF
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