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Whose side is Ocelot really on during TPP?; Is there another surprise in store from Ocelot?
Topic Started: Jun 16 2014, 11:01:45 PM (1,158 Views)
Kenny FastThumbs
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We know from MGS4 that Ocelot was loyal to BB, but he was also working with the Patriots during MGS2 waiting for the right time to strike, so his anti-Patriot sentiments couldn't have been known about then surely.

I wonder, does Ocelot manage to keep his Diamond Dogs allegiance hidden from Cypher, or are Diamond Dogs really controlled by Cypher and waiting to turn on BB, as theorized by YongYea in his latest video (just the defection part, not the Cypher connection). Perhaps Ocelot only truly sides with BB after TPP and unbeknownst to Cypher?

It would seem that Ocelot is loyal to BB and that's that, but Ocelot's allegiances are not exactly straight forward traditionally, just look at MGS1, 2 and 3......

Thoughts?
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The Joy
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Ocelot is known to be on BB's side, but since Ocelot NEVER conclusively shows what side he's on, he might do some questionable stuff. Ocelot definitely is still with The Patriots at that point, maybe even still with the Russians. We know he's really with BB, but for all we know he'll try to kill him in TPP. You never know
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Kenny FastThumbs
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Jun 16 2014, 11:13:13 PM
Ocelot is known to be on BB's side, but since Ocelot NEVER conclusively shows what side he's on, he might do some questionable stuff. Ocelot definitely is still with The Patriots at that point, maybe even still with the Russians. We know he's really with BB, but for all we know he'll try to kill him in TPP. You never know
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You never know.

Lol. I love that about Ocelot, that's one of my favourite aspects of his character, he always keeps you on your toes!
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Heisenberg
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Except in MGS4 it's so OTT and ridiculous. I want him to be more grounded in TPP, but still have that spy feel.
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I remember Ocelot joining the Patriots only under the circumstance that they get BB to join too. I have a feeling a lot of the events in TPP are pure manipulation, and that despite all of this on the surface, Cipher is still trying to get BB to join. Ocelot may be at the DD base to ensure that happens or at least attempt.
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StealthyOne
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Yea, it makes you wonder how he can maintain a good working relationship with The Patriots while helping BB achieve his revenge. I suspect some type of manipulation from Ocelot. Like it was stated before, in mgs2 he was obviously with The Patriots still. Either he's hiding his relationship with BB in TPP, or he's leading Cipher to believe he's trying to get BB to come back to them. But with Ocelot, there are so many things going on. He's definitely one the most developed characters in the series. We wont know till we play the game.
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Kenny FastThumbs
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Jun 17 2014, 12:00:31 AM
I remember Ocelot joining the Patriots only under the circumstance that they get BB to join too. I have a feeling a lot of the events in TPP are pure manipulation, and that despite all of this on the surface, Cipher is still trying to get BB to join. Ocelot may be at the DD base to ensure that happens or at least attempt.
Absolutely. An attempt from Ocelot to get BB back into the Cypher fold is a real possibility. As you said, Ocelot only joined under the specific condition of BB's membership, which would at least suggest that he was always more interested in BB than in Zero's plans. Yet he must have continued to work with them throughout TPP and into MGS2, ostensibly at least.
Edited by Kenny FastThumbs, Jun 17 2014, 12:13:31 AM.
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Gun Animal
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Just trying to work out Ocelot's allegiances in my head, here...

MGS3: US Triple-Agent posing as a KGB Double-Agent posing as a GRU commander

MGSV: ???

MGS1: Foxhound Agent who negs Liquid into staging a coup at the behest of the president, but in reality is actually the president's handler on behalf of the Patriots, but is only working for the patriots to collect and reassemble Big Boss's living remains and achieve his dream of a world without boarders where soldiers are no longer the tools of politicians.

MGS2: First working with the Gorlukovitch mercenaries to capture Metal Gear Ray for Russia, but double-crosses him because he's really working for the patriots while really working for Big Boss even though he's dead, but then also he's possessed by Liquid Snake? Who is also dead. Later, Working for the former President Solidus to keep tabs on him, while then alternating between really working for the patriots and being possessed by dead Liquid, while also working for dead Big Boss secretly somehow???

MGS4: Now he's just Liquid completely and he's trying to take over the world with a computer virus or something but really he was just messing around and he was never actually possessed and the whole thing was a joke just like this fucking game. Then dies as well. RIP.

So... the Phantom Pain needs to bridge Ocelot's change in aliegences between MGS3 and MGS1, but... IDK how you could do that. I'm beginning to think these games are obtusely written.
Edited by Gun Animal, Jun 17 2014, 08:48:55 AM.
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GRAY-HAWK
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Jun 17 2014, 08:44:15 AM
Just trying to work out Ocelot's allegiances in my head, here...

MGS3: US Triple-Agent posing as a KGB Double-Agent posing as a GRU commander

MGSV: ???

MGS1: Foxhound Agent who negs Liquid into staging a coup at the behest of the president, but in reality is actually the president's handler on behalf of the Patriots, but is only working for the patriots to collect and reassemble Big Boss's living remains and achieve his dream of a world without boarders where soldiers are no longer the tools of politicians.

MGS2: First working with the Gorlukovitch mercenaries to capture Metal Gear Ray for Russia, but double-crosses him because he's really working for the patriots while really working for Big Boss even though he's dead, but then also he's possessed by Liquid Snake? Who is also dead. Later, Working for the former President Solidus to keep tabs on him, while then alternating between really working for the patriots and being possessed by dead Liquid, while also working for dead Big Boss secretly somehow???

MGS4: Now he's just Liquid completely and he's trying to take over the world with a computer virus or something but really he was just messing around and he was never actually possessed and the whole thing was a joke just like this fucking game. Then dies as well. RIP.

So... the Phantom Pain needs to bridge Ocelot's change in aliegences between MGS3 and MGS1, but... IDK how you could do that. I'm beginning to think these games are obtusely written.
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Truth
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At this point in the series it's a bigger plot twist if he STAYS on one side.

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Just trying to work out Ocelot's allegiances in my head, here...
So... the Phantom Pain needs to bridge Ocelot's change in aliegences between MGS3 and MGS1, but... IDK how you could do that. I'm beginning to think these games are obtusely written.


MGS3 and the phone call at the end of PO can explain it. He has a fascination/borderline obsession with BB. He's willing to do anything as long as BB is involved.

Though I guess there could be a counterpoint of his nonexistence whereabouts during Peace Walker but there's still evidence of loyalty to BB.
Edited by Truth, Jun 18 2014, 05:31:53 AM.
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Oblivious
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I thought the 'safe' thing to assume, given Ocelot's reputation, was to consider him a double agent, working for Cypher (the Patriots) and DD (where his true allegiance is) at the same time. Through MGS1, MGS2, PO and PW, we know he's with the Patriots waiting for the moment to do something (stupid) about them (MGS4). This time, call me crazy, I don't think Ocelot is going to do any triple crossing or something like that without us knowing it.
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