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Phantom Pain Gameplay Presentation
Topic Started: Jun 19 2014, 01:09:36 PM (30,170 Views)
Vic Vinegar
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Has it ever been confirmed how time will progress in TPP? Real-time or the one second=one minute time seen in the E3 version?
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DrEdArgon
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Vergil
Jun 24 2014, 06:27:26 PM
DrEdArgon
Jun 24 2014, 06:16:20 PM
But keep in mind that 3 days deadline is going to be in that game and many don't have 18 hours free time to just sit in front of their console to play the game so you might be able travel to Mother Base in terms of saving the game (without checkpoint) and continue later on - of course that will skip time.
Well yea but at that point in the story I HIGHLY doubt that BB will have Mother Base even started, not without Kaz.
Mother Base at Carribean was just large place for bird crap & rust when they first started. So there might be initial base there before they move in to bigger one. And there's no telling did Kaz start a new base while Big Boss was in coma.

EDIT - 1 in-game day = 6 hours unless they have changed it.
Edited by DrEdArgon, Jun 24 2014, 06:30:46 PM.
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jonhou
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BigBadass
Jun 24 2014, 06:29:27 PM
Do we even know if Diamong Dogs is necessarily founded by Big Boss? What if Miller and Ocelot started it in between 1975 and 1984, while BB was still in a coma?
http://mgsforums.com/topic/7678325/1/
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nathanshames
Jun 24 2014, 05:56:41 PM
So i noticed in the E3 demo, Big Boss infiltrated a base to get Intel on Millers whereabouts so he could rescue him, after he gets the Intel he returns to mother base before presumably going back again to get Miller. So i guess just retrieving the Intel was a whole singular mission otherwise he would've gotten a mission fail for going back to Mother Base, as was stated by Eyestone. I'm starting to get an idea of how the game is going to flow, maybe.

I'm pretty sure it was said you, the player, will have a time limit of 3 in-game days to rescue Kaz, so i wonder if that time keeps going while you are at Mother Base? Perhaps in the final game there will be no returning to MB after retrieving the Intel on Miller's location and that is why they said it was a special version of the mission( to allow for us to get a look at Mother Base in the 30 minute video).
I'm almost sure, well I hope, that the missions don't flow like that and this was only for E3. I'd assume you continue to the area the intel leads you to find Kaz, as if you replay the mission later you probably don't even have to find the intel. This was more than likely just for E3 as they wanted to make a dramatic escape and show off Mother Base
Also, Mother Base will at least be partially be done before Kaz is rescued? How? Because the ending of the E3 2013 trailer, right after "Men will become demons," Big Boss is carrying Kaz off the helipad at MotherBase and you can see construction in the background.
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KoRnFlakes
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nathanshames
Jun 24 2014, 05:56:41 PM
So i noticed in the E3 demo, Big Boss infiltrated a base to get Intel on Millers whereabouts so he could rescue him, after he gets the Intel he returns to mother base before presumably going back again to get Miller. So i guess just retrieving the Intel was a whole singular mission otherwise he would've gotten a mission fail for going back to Mother Base, as was stated by Eyestone. I'm starting to get an idea of how the game is going to flow, maybe.

I'm pretty sure it was said you, the player, will have a time limit of 3 in-game days to rescue Kaz, so i wonder if that time keeps going while you are at Mother Base? Perhaps in the final game there will be no returning to MB after retrieving the Intel on Miller's location and that is why they said it was a special version of the mission( to allow for us to get a look at Mother Base in the 30 minute video).
Pretty sure the guy who was talking said that they could've just continued on with the mission of rescuing Kaz if they wanted to but decided to go back to Mother Base to show it off, so it looks like it's not going to flow like Peace Walker where you get one mission, return to mother base, even though the next mission begins in the same location.
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Venture
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DrEdArgon
Jun 24 2014, 06:29:56 PM
Vergil
Jun 24 2014, 06:27:26 PM
DrEdArgon
Jun 24 2014, 06:16:20 PM
But keep in mind that 3 days deadline is going to be in that game and many don't have 18 hours free time to just sit in front of their console to play the game so you might be able travel to Mother Base in terms of saving the game (without checkpoint) and continue later on - of course that will skip time.
Well yea but at that point in the story I HIGHLY doubt that BB will have Mother Base even started, not without Kaz.
Mother Base at Carribean was just large place for bird crap & rust when they first started. So there might be initial base there before they move in to bigger one. And there's no telling did Kaz start a new base while Big Boss was in coma.

Dont we see Kaz being taken off the chopper at Mother Base after Big Boss rescues him?
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Jim Houseman
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Vic Vinegar
Jun 24 2014, 06:29:29 PM
Has it ever been confirmed how time will progress in TPP? Real-time or the one second=one minute time seen in the E3 version?
If you watch the idroid clock before he sets off on the horse, it stays the same time for about 12 seconds, so the demo clock was being altered to show off nightfall.
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Vergil


Eliab
Jun 24 2014, 07:15:58 PM
DrEdArgon
Jun 24 2014, 06:29:56 PM
Vergil
Jun 24 2014, 06:27:26 PM
DrEdArgon
Jun 24 2014, 06:16:20 PM
But keep in mind that 3 days deadline is going to be in that game and many don't have 18 hours free time to just sit in front of their console to play the game so you might be able travel to Mother Base in terms of saving the game (without checkpoint) and continue later on - of course that will skip time.
Well yea but at that point in the story I HIGHLY doubt that BB will have Mother Base even started, not without Kaz.
Mother Base at Carribean was just large place for bird crap & rust when they first started. So there might be initial base there before they move in to bigger one. And there's no telling did Kaz start a new base while Big Boss was in coma.

Dont we see Kaz being taken off the chopper at Mother Base after Big Boss rescues him?
Shit you're right.
Whoopsies, my mistake.
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Jim Houseman
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KoRnFlakes
Jun 24 2014, 06:58:59 PM
Pretty sure the guy who was talking said that they could've just continued on with the mission of rescuing Kaz if they wanted to but decided to go back to Mother Base to show it off, so it looks like it's not going to flow like Peace Walker where you get one mission, return to mother base, even though the next mission begins in the same location.
Peace walker was ridiculously segmented, like that mission which ends in Snake finding a locked door in the cloud forest, and the next mission is to find the keycard!

I'm not sure how representative the demo is, but it would make sense if you can do a sub-objective like scan the intel for Miller's location, go home, and then come back later to find Miller.
Edited by Jim Houseman, Jun 24 2014, 09:45:30 PM.
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Vergil


i hope it's not as segmented as PW, that for sure.
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ballisticola
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BigBadass
Jun 24 2014, 04:51:33 PM
ballisticola
Jun 24 2014, 04:26:48 PM
Hold on, I don't get it now!? :D

So the whole idea is people will exploit it and just use it to remove people from the area. But the solution is to have them be removed when you complete the mission? And if they get found they don't get Fultoned?

Which is exactly the same as not having Fulton at all. You just knock them out and if no one finds them...you never needed to remove them in the first place. And if they are found, what happens? They wake them up, have a little look around and then go back to doing what the were doing.

It's easier to knock them out and hide them, saving me money for a bitching new helipad ;)
What are you talking about?

We are saying that the Fulton shouldn't even be a way for removing enemies from your mission in the first place! Fulton's use should be for recruiting, and recruiting only. Wanna hide enemy bodies? Put them inside trash cans, lockers or throw them in bushes. Want to recruit that soldier? Tag them so that they can be 'fultoned' at the end of the mission OR extract them via chopper.

So yeah, not having the Fulton remove enemies from the area definetly is not the same as not having Fulton at all, since it would still be used for recruiting... the only thing it should be used for anyway.
It maybe easier, but it cost 300 GMP a go, as opposed to 1000 GMP for a chopper. And following on from what's just been talked about, the mission we are seeing is the start of the mission "Rescue Kazuhira Miller". Are you seriously expecting people to evacuate soldiers they've knocked out at the beginning of the mission? Or are you expecting people to transport (at least) 4 soldiers at a time (to be cost effective) to a safe area and call a chopper? There are 12 people in this demo being Fultoned, you need to call 3 choppers and transport them to a safe area...or all 12 for 1 chopper (if you can even do that). And then you still have to complete the mission. The piece of gameplay we saw last year shows you inside a village with many houses, is anyone seriously going to carry soldiers outside to put them on a chopper?

And tagging them until the end of the mission? Why? It makes no difference. Either way they aren't interfering with play. And if it's purely about recruiting, you can exploit this system too, just throw them on a roof where no one can find them. And most importantly, won't they wake up at some point? :huh:

You say "the Fulton shouldn't even be a way for removing enemies from your mission in the first place!", but why does it matter? You can dispose of bodies without it.

There should be just a limit per mission. And if you want more you call a chopper and do the donkey work.

On the mission. It says on the iDroid "Selected Mission - 'Rescue Kazuhira Miller'". "Selected"? In GZ it just says "Mission", so that to me suggests there is a different way to select a mission and it seems like it's in game.
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Vergil


I wonder if whistling for the horse will attract guards.
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BigBadass
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ballisticola
Jun 24 2014, 10:30:26 PM
The mission we are seeing is the start of the mission "Rescue Kazuhira Miller". Are you seriously expecting people to evacuate soldiers they've knocked out at the beginning of the mission? Or are you expecting people to transport (at least) 4 soldiers at a time (to be cost effective) to a safe area and call a chopper? There are 12 people in this demo being Fultoned, you need to call 3 choppers and transport them to a safe area...or all 12 for 1 chopper (if you can even do that). And then you still have to complete the mission. The piece of gameplay we saw last year shows you inside a village with many houses, is anyone seriously going to carry soldiers outside to put them on a chopper?
If you want to REMOVE them from the level, yeah. It shouldn't be this easy to remove enemies. If you want to recruit them, tag them for Fultoning. The ones you really want (like high level soldiers) or the ones you think have a higher risk of being lost because they woke up or something, you extract. You are forgetting that MOST of the soldiers are completely disposable in the first place. You tag all of them, receive most of them at the end of the mission, and there's nothing to complain. I repeat: the high level ones you don't wanna lose, you can extract by chopper.

ballisticola
 
And tagging them until the end of the mission? Why? It makes no difference. Either way they aren't interfering with play.
Of course they are. If you Fulton them during the mission, you make the game way easier by disposing of enemies completely with no penalty (save for the 300 GMP. Which seriously isn't that much of a penalty, let's face it). If we change it to the tagging system you have two options: you either tag them and risk losing them/having them being found and therefore raising suspicion; or you can kill them, which is kind of a penalty in itself. Plus, killing them mean you don't get to recruit them.

ballisticola
 
And if it's purely about recruiting, you can exploit this system too, just throw them on a roof where no one can find them. And most importantly, won't they wake up at some point? :huh:

You say "the Fulton shouldn't even be a way for removing enemies from your mission in the first place!", but why does it matter? You can dispose of bodies without it.
I don't get what your point is here. Yes, throwing them into somewhere they can't be found is something that can be done. But that's the thing! You have to do something, you have to get out of your way to hide bodies, like in previous games. And there's still the risk of they being found. With Fulton, you press a button, enemies are gone and you even receive more soldiers in your army! Completely OP.
Edited by BigBadass, Jun 25 2014, 01:55:05 AM.
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KoRnFlakes
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BigBadass
Jun 24 2014, 04:51:33 PM
We are saying that the Fulton shouldn't even be a way for removing enemies from your mission in the first place! Fulton's use should be for recruiting, and recruiting only.

I don't get what your point is here. Yes, throwing them into somewhere they can't be found is something that can be done. But that's the thing! You have to do something, you have to get out of your way to hide bodies, like in previous games
And that's exactly what it's used for, recruiting people, there is barely any difference between using the fulton to remove enemies from the battlefield and using them to recruit people because it's going to remove them from the field regardless.

And like Bal said, if they made it so they were tagged and only extracted when the mission ends but were untagged if they were found, there are ways around that so doing it that way would be entirely pointless.

Also, you never had to go out of your way to hide bodies in the previous games, all you had to do was know the guards patrol routes and hide them just outside of it, you could leave the bodies right in the center of the floor and it wouldn't matter since the guy patrolling right in the next hallway doesn't go in there.

Is the fact that you don't have to use the fulton on guards if you find it too overpowered or immersion breaking that difficult to grasp for people? You still have the option of bringing them to the helicopter to extract them and can save the fultons for containers, vehicles and AA guns.

It's the same thing as marking and reflex, if you don't like them or think they make the game too easy for you, they can be switched off, if you think the tranq pistol makes things too easy, don't bring it with you, if you think fultoning out guys makes things too easy, don't do it, the only one making you do it is yourself so you're the one taking away your enjoyment of the game if you don't like those features.

Don't like the "Don't like it, don't use it." logic? Tough shit.

The fulton doesn't need to be changed, people just need to get it through their thick fucking skulls that fultoning isn't the only way to extract people.
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ballisticola
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Still we carry you.

Let's say you want to Fulton that soldier right after getting the box. You tranq him and then tag him. Then you find the intel and go off to rescue Kaz.

He's never going to be lying there for the rest of the mission, waiting for you to finish, because he'll wake up. Or he will be spotted. There is no penalty. You're not even in the area, and even if you were, they'll just get freaked out for a minute and forget it ever happened.

Or you don't tag him. He's never going to be lying there for the rest of the mission, because he'll wake up. Or he will be spotted. There is no penalty. You're not even in the area, and even if you were, they'll just get freaked out for a minute and forget it ever happened. You may as well have just Fultoned him.
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BigBadass
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KoRnFlakes
 
Also, you never had to go out of your way to hide bodies in the previous games, all you had to do was know the guards patrol routes and hide them just outside of it, you could leave the bodies right in the center of the floor and it wouldn't matter since the guy patrolling right in the next hallway doesn't go in there.
So, basically you just said in previous games the player had to:

- Know enemy patrol routes.
- Drag knocked down enemies out of said route, or
- Hide them somewhere the soldier patrolling couldn't see.

With the recovery system the player has to:

- Press one button and the enemies are gone, can't be found, and are added to your army.

Plus, there's no risk of enemies being found. Which one seems more challenging and realistic?

KoRnFlakes
 
The fulton doesn't need to be changed, people just need to get it through their thick fucking skulls that fultoning isn't the only way to extract people.
lol Calm down man. I don't hate the Fulton like that, I'm just saying I belive there's a better way to implement it.

@ballisticola: so if we added Fulton Recovery System to MGS1, MGS2, MGS3 and MGS4, those games wouldn't become easier? Yeah, right. <_<

I'll still use the fulton system. As I said, I don't hate it. But I think it could've been done better. Why the need to defend every little thing about the game? Even the good stuff can be improved, c'mon now.
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KoRnFlakes
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Grab that cane, pop that vicoden and tell them bitches it's not lupus!
Or instead of tranqing them, you hold them up and tell them to get down, they'll stay down until a combat level alert is called, so all you'd have to do is hold up every guy in the area, tag them, complete the mission.

It's especially easy once you consider the fact that you can tranq a guy in the face, kick him awake then hold him up, so you can put a guy to sleep, carry him where no guards travel, kick him awake, hold him up, tag him and you've got no risk of another guy finding him and no risk of him waking up and walking off.

Quote:
 
So, basically you just said in previous games the player had to:

- Know enemy patrol routes.
- Drag knocked down enemies out of said route, or
- Hide them somewhere the soldier patrolling couldn't see.

With the recovery system the player has to:

- Press one button and the enemies are gone, can't be found, and are added to your army.

Plus, there's no risk of enemies being found. Which one seems more challenging and realistic?


1, Which is not difficult to pull off because every single guard patrols in a linear path.

2, That's only if the two guards patrolling paths cross with one another, in most cases, they don't so you can just knock a guy out and leave him there and the other guards in the area won't notice.

Which leaves...*gasps* no risk of them being found because nobody walks into those areas who could find them.

Neither of the two are realistic, with the guards, there'd be a radio check in with every single guy, not just one of them. The fulton isn't meant to be realistic, it's meant to give people a simple non-tedious way of recruiting people. Meaning neither are very challenging.

Quote:
 
But I think it could've been done better. Why the need to defend every little thing about the game? Even the good stuff can be improved, c'mon now.


The point of making improvements is to make things better, what you're suggesting is would make things more tedious than anything else, which isn't an improvement because it makes things worse, not better.

It's a simple thing to figure out, the fulton is the easy way to extract people, the chopper extraction is the challenging way because there's risk of the guys waking up and finding the other bodies you knocked out, and the risk you'd come across more guys on your way to the chopper.
Edited by KoRnFlakes, Jun 25 2014, 03:01:15 AM.
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ballisticola
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Still we carry you.

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- Press one button and the enemies are gone, can't be found, and are added to your army.
The system you are putting forward is only pressing one button. Being found is completely irrelevant.
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so if we added Fulton Recovery System to MGS1, MGS2, MGS3 and MGS4, those games wouldn't become easier? Yeah, right. <_<
MGS enemies just disappear anyway and the weather would be against you ;)
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BigBadass
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KoRnFlakes
 
Or instead of tranqing them, you hold them up and tell them to get down, they'll stay down until a combat level alert is called, so all you'd have to do is hold up every guy in the area, tag them, complete the mission.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but MGS2 had this all figured out years ago. Holding and disposing of enemies was done much better in that game. I don't even think I need to go into details here.

KoRnFlakes
 
Which leaves...*gasps* no risk of them being found because nobody walks into those areas who could find them.
There would still be the risk of the guard waking up and causing the base to be aware of your presence.

KoRnFlakes
 
The fulton isn't meant to be realistic, it's meant to give people a simple non-tedious way of recruiting people.
And what I suggested was to remove the Fulton ability to dispose of enemies, not the recruiting part. I actually think the recruiting part of the Fulton (a non-tedious blah blah) is important, and that's why I didn't say "remove Fulton altogether"!

KoRnFlakes
 
The point of making improvements is to make things better, what you're suggesting is would make things more tedious than anything else, which isn't an improvement because it makes things worse, not better.
So in your mind a more balanced system is worst than an overpowered one? Okay then, to each their own.

ballisticola
 
Quote:
 
so if we added Fulton Recovery System to MGS1, MGS2, MGS3 and MGS4, those games wouldn't become easier? Yeah, right. <_<

MGS enemies just disappear anyway and the weather would be against you ;)
Hah! You got me there :P
But my point still stands.
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KoRnFlakes
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Grab that cane, pop that vicoden and tell them bitches it's not lupus!
BigBadass
Jun 25 2014, 03:18:13 AM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but MGS2 had this all figured out years ago. Holding and disposing of enemies was done much better in that game. I don't even think I need to go into details here.

There would still be the risk of the guard waking up and causing the base to be aware of your presence.

And what I suggested was to remove the Fulton ability to dispose of enemies, not the recruiting part. I actually think the recruiting part of the Fulton (a non-tedious blah blah) is important, and that's why I didn't say "remove Fulton altogether"!

So in your mind a more balanced system is worst than an overpowered one? Okay then, to each their own.
1, And even so, at no point do you have to go completely out of your way to hide a sleeping/dead body, what good is saying MGS2 did disposing of bodies better than the other games when you can leave them in the middle of the floor and not worry about anyone finding them?

2, No actually there's not, their alert level doesn't go up when they wake up a sleeping guard and guards who wake up from sleeping don't call an alert. There's no risk at all of leaving them there, especially since you're never in one area long enough for them to wake up anyway.

3, And as I said before, there is barely any difference between using the fulton to dispose of enemies or using it to recruit people, they're being taken off the map regardless of the players intentions when using it.

4, Except what you're suggesting they do isn't balancing anything since extracting them is still as easy as it would be if you didn't need to tag them and wait until the end of the mission since all you'd need to do is hold up every guard and tell them to get down and none of them will get back up. The only difference is it takes longer and is more of a tedious chore than a way to balance things.

And it's balanced enough already, it costs GMP to use and unlike Peace Walker, you don't get your GMP back, when it's spent, it's gone, and odds are you're not going to start the game with a whole hell of a lot of it, so it's not like you'll have an infinite amount of fultons, and then of course you'll be spending loads of GMP on developing new weapons and equipment and having it delivered to you, which numbers in just a few thousand to tens of thousands. So you'll eventually have to decide whether it's worth fultoning even one guy when you might need to call in a supply drop or develop a new weapon/item that you might need.

That and the fact that the fulton doesn't have a 100% chance of succession.

The fulton is balanced, some people are just too thick to figure that out for themselves.
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