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My interpretation of events leading to the attack of Mother Base; A new look at Huey
Topic Started: Jun 22 2014, 05:26:30 AM (2,207 Views)
StealthyOne
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Don't know if this was mentioned by someone else in another topic, but here goes.

I was bored, so I decided to listen to the tapes in GZ just because. Then I noticed something.

Kaz mentions that Strangelove left MSF because ZEKE was complete, and there was no new research going on with AI. Afterwards he says that Huey said "I have more important things to worry about" when asked about her leaving. That got me thinking. What if Cipher reached out to Strangelove and asked her to join? Think about it, around this time, Cipher could have started research and development of the patriot AI system. With Strangelove being one of the top researchers in the field, she would be a prime candidate for recruitment. Maybe Cipher recruits Strangelove to help work on the SOP system. She tells Huey that she is leaving MSF, and the reasons why. A conflicted Huey (who is infatuated with Strangelove) wants to be by her side no matter what. Strangelove, knowing how Huey feels about her, convinces him to help her and Cipher lead an attack on Mother Base. Her last words to Huey in PW were something about being with a person who can walk their own path. Maybe Huey sees this as a chance to make his own choices. Instead of answering to BB, he decides to take his own path in pursuit of Strangelove's affection. Therefore leading him to commit treason against BB and MSF. It would make sense, seeing as how Huey is being interrogated in TPP trailers, and how suspicious his actions are in GZ.


Thoughts? Also, sorry for the long explanation.
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Great theory. It would also tie in, if in fact that Kaz was referring to Huey, the statement he said at the end of the 2013 E3 trailer.
"He mentioned something interesting, Cipher is pursuing new research.."
Strangelove could've told Huey about her AI work for the Patriots, thus Huey revealed it to Ocelot or Kaz while they was torturing him.
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StealthyOne
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That's what i was thinking. A lot of pieces fit together.
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Kelesis
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It does fit with what we have on the table. I think it's interesting that Kaz mentions Huey following Strangelove around in one sentence, then talks about Huey's response ("have bigger issues to deal with") in another. It was like the writers wanted us to remember that he follows her around, but have us almost surprised when we hear that Strangelove isn't one of his priorities at the moment. Even Big Boss was surprised.

Also, I can't remember if Huey's response to Strangelove leaving was before or during the preparations for the UN inspection. If it was before they got the letter, then that would add to the theory. Kaz said it was a week ago when Strangelove left? If Strangelove was not present during the UN's request to inspect MSF, we might be able to assume Kaz asked Huey the question at the time Strangelove left, which means Huey was referring to something other than the UN inspection since there was no request at the time?
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StealthyOne
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Kelesishiro
Jun 22 2014, 05:49:38 AM
It does fit with what we have on the table. I think it's interesting that Kaz mentions Huey following Strangelove around in one sentence, then talks about Huey's response ("have bigger issues to deal with") in another. It was like the writers wanted us to remember that he follows her around, but have us almost surprised when we hear that Strangelove isn't one of his priorities at the moment. Even Big Boss was surprised.

Also, I can't remember if Huey's response to Strangelove leaving was before or during the preparations for the UN inspection. If it was before they got the letter, then that would add to the theory. Kaz said it was a week ago when Strangelove left? If Strangelove was not present during the UN's request to inspect MSF, we might be able to assume Kaz asked Huey the question at the time Strangelove left, which means Huey was referring to something other than the UN inspection since there was no request at the time?
Huey could've known about the plan before the official letter was sent. If he and Strangelove/Cipher were in talks, then he could've been a pawn of the plan before it started.

"I have bigger things to deal with" might refer to the fact that he was worried about his possible defection from MSF, and what it might mean for him in the long run.
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Kelesis
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"Mankind will come together, reunited between these fluffy buns."
Yeah, that's true. By the way, did you find it a little odd that during the end credits it mentions the 1980 - Huey's son Hal is born? It kind of... stuck out. Even the LET project mention didn't feel that...out of place. I suppose I could just take it at face value as a sort of nod to Otacon but...I somehow doubt it.
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StealthyOne
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Kelesishiro
Jun 22 2014, 06:03:07 AM
Yeah, that's true. By the way, did you find it a little odd that during the end credits it mentions the 1980 - Huey's son Hal is born? It kind of... stuck out. Even the LET project mention didn't feel that...out of place. I suppose I could just take it at face value as a sort of nod to Otacon but...I somehow doubt it.
Could possibly be a similar situation to how the Patriots held Olga's child hostage in order to force her cooperation?
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ZetsubouNoNnoitra
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Kinda thought about Strangelove working with Zero before!
but they could be both forced to cooperate with him.

Edit: "I have bigger things to deal with" maybe he said that because he was afraid that they'd harm Strangelovre.
Edited by ZetsubouNoNnoitra, Jun 22 2014, 06:17:15 AM.
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StealthyOne
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ZetsubouNoNnoitra
Jun 22 2014, 06:14:39 AM
Kinda thought about Strangelove working with Zero before!
but they could be both forced to cooperate with him.

Edit: "I have bigger things to deal with" maybe he said that because he was afraid that they'd harm Strangelovre.
Good point. But I can also see Strangelove working with Cipher on her own will. Due to her obsession with AI research.


Off topic:

Why aren't more people posting on this topic? lol.
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Venture
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I know ive seen this discussed a couple times before , maybe not here. It sounds quite plausible. I dont remember the wording in PW but if Strangelove did say something like "walk your own path" that would explain Huey's new legs. I can understand Huey's cause for defection if its for Strangelove but what is her reason. I mean sure, she's bored and wants to make AI systems but this doesnt seem like a compelling reason for her to betray MSF. She's forgiven Big Boss, and she's become a legitimate member of the MSF family, she joined because she wanted to. It would seem out of character if she decided to go to Zero just because she would have something to do for him. So I would agree with the kidnapping idea.


Edited by Venture, Jun 22 2014, 07:33:10 AM.
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EmmGeeEss
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I really like your idea of Strangelove being recruited to work on the SOP system - I can totally see that happening - but helping them carry out the attack on Mother Base? It doesn't add up.

Unless Skull Face does, in fact, work for Cipher, and this ends up being one of the major twists in The Phantom Pain, this doesn't match up with everything we've heard, because it was Skull Face who orchestrated and carried out the attack on Mother Base (most likely as a way of getting Big Boss to exact revenge against Cipher - who he predicted would lay the blame on Cipher straight away - because he knew Big Boss would be out of the way rescuing Chico, and wouldn't be killed in the attack, so the two could join forces in their desire to take down Zero), and he appears to want to destroy Cipher and get his hands on Zero as much as Big Boss and Kaz want to, come the events of The Phantom Pain.

This means Skull Face has no involvement or alignment with Cipher, especially from what we heard during his conversation with Paz in the epilogue.

Thoughts?

xx
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Syke, oh, Mantis
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Plausible theory? Here? Mind:blown.
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Venture
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EmmGeeEss
Jun 22 2014, 07:41:41 AM
I really like your idea of Strangelove being recruited to work on the SOP system - I can totally see that happening - but helping them carry out the attack on Mother Base? It doesn't add up.

Unless Skull Face does, in fact, work for Cipher, and this ends up being one of the major twists in The Phantom Pain, this doesn't match up with everything we've heard, because it was Skull Face who orchestrated and carried out the attack on Mother Base (most likely as a way of getting Big Boss to exact revenge against Cipher - who he predicted would lay the blame on Cipher straight away - because he knew Big Boss would be out of the way rescuing Chico, and wouldn't be killed in the attack, so the two could join forces in their desire to take down Zero), and he appears to want to destroy Cipher and get his hands on Zero as much as Big Boss and Kaz want to, come the events of The Phantom Pain.

This means Skull Face has no involvement or alignment with Cipher, especially from what we heard during his conversation with Paz in the epilogue.

Thoughts?

xx
Well Big Boss and Kaz might blame Cipher but Boss saw XOF with his own one eye and 9 years later they are still sporting the same XOF patch. I see Big Boss begrudingly accepting Skullface's offer to work together against Cipher. And its not like Skullface knew Big Boss was going to survive, he deliberately tried to kill him with two different bombs. So him wanting to make Big Boss hate Cipher anymore than he already did doesnt really make sense

What I am kind of confused about is, was Skullface ordered to attack mother base and the whole betray Zero just an afterthought? Does Skull have the ability to fake out MSF with the IAEA without Zero's network? Has he kidnapped Strangelove and she is not working with Cipher on his new research? uh whatever, I'm just going to wait until 2020 when the game comes out.
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Kelesis
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"Mankind will come together, reunited between these fluffy buns."
Eliab
Jun 22 2014, 08:27:51 AM
Well Big Boss and Kaz might blame Cipher but Boss saw XOF with his own one eye and 9 years later they are still sporting the same XOF patch.
But didn't they throw away the XOF patches in the beginning intro? :huh:

I don't remember seeing it in the new trailer, unless you're thinking of 2013 E3 trailer when Skull Face and co. come out of the chopper? They have it on then, but that scene could be a flashback or something before the attack on MSF. I just always thought the XOF thing was just for their time in Camp Omega.
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Venture
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Kelesishiro
Jun 22 2014, 08:55:07 AM
Eliab
Jun 22 2014, 08:27:51 AM
Well Big Boss and Kaz might blame Cipher but Boss saw XOF with his own one eye and 9 years later they are still sporting the same XOF patch.
But didn't they throw away the XOF patches in the beginning intro? :huh:

I don't remember seeing it in the new trailer, unless you're thinking of 2013 E3 trailer when Skull Face and co. come out of the chopper? They have it on then, but that scene could be a flashback or something before the attack on MSF. I just always thought the XOF thing was just for their time in Camp Omega.
I assumed Big Boss could put it together that the XOF group that the marines are talking about, the patchs that he finds and Kaz talks about over the radio is the same group that flys overhead him and attacks mother base. Also, its not a flashback in the 2013 trailer because I think the gear they are wearing is the same gear you see them wearing in the 2014 trailer and not what they wear in GZ. Also skull is wearing the same eye mask thing in both trailers, which just makes me think its from the same time period.


I dunno, I guess Big Boss could just forget all of the marines talking about the backwards fox logo and them explicitly saying XOF, and even finding the patches and Kaz acknowledging them. But that just sounds too dumb and makes them seem so oblivious.
Edited by Venture, Jun 22 2014, 09:07:37 AM.
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Kelesis
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"Mankind will come together, reunited between these fluffy buns."
Good point. Didn't notice the post 9 years uniform and mask.
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Talby
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I don't really like the idea of Big Boss being duped by Skull Face in the Phantom Pain, at least not for very long. The audience already knows Skull Face is responsible, so the whole time we'll be yelling, "damn it Big Boss, he's the one who destroyed MSF! Shoot him!" while we wait for the inevitable double-cross. It would only work if both Big Boss and the audience were in the dark about Skull Face.

Like a lot of scenes from the trailers, I think the scene with Big Boss and Skull Face is meant to mislead us and get us talking. The actual context of that scene might be something completely different.
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ADAMska87
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Eliab
Jun 22 2014, 08:27:51 AM
EmmGeeEss
Jun 22 2014, 07:41:41 AM
I really like your idea of Strangelove being recruited to work on the SOP system - I can totally see that happening - but helping them carry out the attack on Mother Base? It doesn't add up.

Unless Skull Face does, in fact, work for Cipher, and this ends up being one of the major twists in The Phantom Pain, this doesn't match up with everything we've heard, because it was Skull Face who orchestrated and carried out the attack on Mother Base (most likely as a way of getting Big Boss to exact revenge against Cipher - who he predicted would lay the blame on Cipher straight away - because he knew Big Boss would be out of the way rescuing Chico, and wouldn't be killed in the attack, so the two could join forces in their desire to take down Zero), and he appears to want to destroy Cipher and get his hands on Zero as much as Big Boss and Kaz want to, come the events of The Phantom Pain.

This means Skull Face has no involvement or alignment with Cipher, especially from what we heard during his conversation with Paz in the epilogue.

Thoughts?

xx
Well Big Boss and Kaz might blame Cipher but Boss saw XOF with his own one eye and 9 years later they are still sporting the same XOF patch. I see Big Boss begrudingly accepting Skullface's offer to work together against Cipher. And its not like Skullface knew Big Boss was going to survive, he deliberately tried to kill him with two different bombs. So him wanting to make Big Boss hate Cipher anymore than he already did doesnt really make sense

What I am kind of confused about is, was Skullface ordered to attack mother base and the whole betray Zero just an afterthought? Does Skull have the ability to fake out MSF with the IAEA without Zero's network? Has he kidnapped Strangelove and she is not working with Cipher on his new research? uh whatever, I'm just going to wait until 2020 when the game comes out.
I think Skullface did the attack on his own...remember when Paz says ''cipher would never..", implying that Zero wouldn't do what Sully's planning...Then He says " yes..cipher will mourn his death". So.. what I got from it was that Skully was taking out Big Boss on his own doing, then going after Zero.


On the topic though..I always assumed it was Dr. Strangelove who SF was talking about when he said "the scientist was our way in". I also thought that she would be the one who was the key to the patriots AI system...they are both british. Brits are evil hahh
Edited by ADAMska87, Jun 22 2014, 09:42:00 AM.
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The Joy
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I dunno, it doesn't completely add up. Strangelove wouldn't defect to Zero (at least not immediately), nor is she kidnapped by Skull Face (if so, she'd be in the base). She could've been kidnapped by Zero, but Zero would absolutely not want to kill BB, so he wouldn't use her to stage the inspection.
It's possible that Skull Face's mission was to interrogate Paz, but he had other plans. If he knew about (or even conducted) the kidnapping of Strangelove for Zero, he could still use it to influence Huey. He could simply lie to Huey when saying he's the one who has her, while she's actually in Zero's captivity due to him wanting the AIs. He promises Huey that their plan is to destroy MG or something, and as naive as he is, Huey believes them and aids them.
Still, afterwards Strangelove and Huey obviously meet again so perhaps he also turns to Zero (either of his own will or not)?
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EmmGeeEss
Jun 22 2014, 07:41:41 AM
I really like your idea of Strangelove being recruited to work on the SOP system - I can totally see that happening - but helping them carry out the attack on Mother Base? It doesn't add up.

Unless Skull Face does, in fact, work for Cipher, and this ends up being one of the major twists in The Phantom Pain, this doesn't match up with everything we've heard, because it was Skull Face who orchestrated and carried out the attack on Mother Base (most likely as a way of getting Big Boss to exact revenge against Cipher - who he predicted would lay the blame on Cipher straight away - because he knew Big Boss would be out of the way rescuing Chico, and wouldn't be killed in the attack, so the two could join forces in their desire to take down Zero), and he appears to want to destroy Cipher and get his hands on Zero as much as Big Boss and Kaz want to, come the events of The Phantom Pain.

This means Skull Face has no involvement or alignment with Cipher, especially from what we heard during his conversation with Paz in the epilogue.

Thoughts?

xx
The impression I got was that XOF was one of Cipher's clandestine cells, but that Skullface wants to destroy Cipher. Since he can't fight Cipher directly, he encouraged Snake to go on a full-on war against Cipher by attacking him.

A practical example of this dynamic would be, say, intentionally screwing someone over at work in a way that implicates your superior so that your superior gets fired over it, not you.
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