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New trailer at E3 2015 confirmed.
Topic Started: Jun 10 2015, 04:25:26 PM (50,524 Views)
abstract-one
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The Doctor
Jun 16 2015, 09:33:24 PM
abstract-one
Jun 16 2015, 09:27:50 PM
Instead of getting cranky defensive about it, why don't you offer up your thoughts on why they would share the same exact scars. Without just stating its irrelevant because you choose to see it as irrelevant. We could probably move the conversation forward that way. Genuinely curious why they would have the same scars. Kojima is a little wacky in rationalizing these sorts of things, but I can't think of a way of wording why they would have the same scars.

I remember someone suggesting earlier that they would have to look exactly alike for some obtuse reason, so that no one could tell them apart. Perhaps so that Big Boss couldn't tell them apart. Seems baseless to me. Why?


Acid
 
Seems there is just no pleasing a few people who outright have it out for Solid.


LOL, yes its a regular inquisition.
Give me a reason why it wouldn't be Solid and Liquid. They might share the same scars from when they were born. Yes, people aren't born with scars, we have that. But these kids are clones. Plus like you said, Kojima does shit like this. Scars does not justify the ignorance of the twins.
You might as well ask me the explanation for Paz being in the trailers. We don't know about that, and we don't know about why there are potentially two Liquids or why both Liquid and Solid would have the same scars. Both theories are weird to explain.

Yes Kojima could invent some obtuse symbolic reason for them having the same scars. But unless I can think of what that reason might be I'm skeptical towards it. I have hard enough time thinking of a reason why they would dress exactly the same, and be hanging out with one another in some weird trance like state.

Scars are not genetic, so pointing out they are clones does nothing.

We could say they have implants in them. That cuts were made in the same spots to implant something, but it really does not look those kind of scars at all.

Quote:
 
Maybe somebody purposely made the same scars on both of both of them for the same reason that they're dressed the same. To cause confusion?


Could be. But who? Someone had suggested to mix up Big Boss before. But why would Big Boss care? If he does not want to kill Liquid, he wouldn't want to kill Solid. He might not like that he was cloned, but he is indifferent or neutral towards the clones themselves.

To confuse the Patriots? The Patriots created them. I'm sure they have a means of telling them apart if they want.

And why would Liquid and Solid play along with being virtually indistinguishable? Liquid seems to be a handful to control on his own, if not impossible to control, what with him jumping in that Metal Gear. I think we all expect them to have a rivalry if they have a relationship at all. Maintaining a level of similarity that makes them indistinguishable is only something twins who luv each other do.
Edited by abstract-one, Jun 16 2015, 09:46:39 PM.
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CraigUK
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Intandem
Jun 16 2015, 09:33:51 PM
CraigUK
Jun 16 2015, 09:25:48 PM
Kazuhira
Jun 16 2015, 09:17:45 PM
Two identical persons. Twins!

"Oh...it can't be Solid Snake because of the scars."

Really? After the striking evidence? That's completely irrelevant.
So you are going to dismiss the FACT they have identical scars, something which reasonably (to any normal person) not be possible, as nothing.

People aren't born with scars
People don't inherit scars
People who get scars tend to accidentally get them.

So tell me again why would David and Eli share the exact same scars? Don't dismiss it as stupid or whatever. I want a reason which isn't grasping at straws. I'm putting forward visual evidence that they are both the same person and you are arguing back by dismissing and saying it means nothing but not putting any reason forward for your side of the disagreement.
Okay, but why would there be two Eli's? If what you say is true, that if the 2nd twin is Eli and not David, then that makes the 2nd twin a clone of Eli. But if the twin was a clone, they wouldn't have identical scars now would they? On the other hand, if the two twins are actually Eli and David, then it is quite possible that they share similar injuries and disfigurements from the same incident. Now whether that incident is purposeful or accidental is unknown.
I personally don't think there are "2" elis. I think they are both Eli, but one of them isn't real, a manifestation of what Eli thinks his twin brother looks like after being told he has one, perhaps? Or BB picturing two of them after learning about LET and what it would be like having two of these kids running about.

Or as someone else said, could be decoy octopus (though i personally hope he isnt because he somehow gets shoehorned into every theory these days and its an easy co-out argument).
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Kazuhira
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It is stated in MGS1 that Liquid and Solid are identical. Like two water drops. The only difference is the hair colour and skin tone. Being identical means they share scars and that kind of stuff.
Edited by Kazuhira, Jun 17 2015, 03:11:29 AM.
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JJJ_
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I'm 99% sure that those two are (for whatever reason) two Elis. There's three reasons for this:
1. The two have the same scars
2. I don't think Kojima wants to have Liquid and Solid meeting each other before Shadow Moses
3. Kojima loves pulling red herrings.

And come on guys, let's not start antagonizing each other over a petty thing like this.
Edited by JJJ_, Jun 16 2015, 11:25:47 PM.
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Kitty Hamilton
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The Doctor
Jun 16 2015, 09:33:24 PM
abstract-one
Jun 16 2015, 09:27:50 PM
Instead of getting cranky defensive about it, why don't you offer up your thoughts on why they would share the same exact scars. Without just stating its irrelevant because you choose to see it as irrelevant. We could probably move the conversation forward that way. Genuinely curious why they would have the same scars. Kojima is a little wacky in rationalizing these sorts of things, but I can't think of a way of wording why they would have the same scars.

I remember someone suggesting earlier that they would have to look exactly alike for some obtuse reason, so that no one could tell them apart. Perhaps so that Big Boss couldn't tell them apart. Seems baseless to me. Why?


Acid
 
Seems there is just no pleasing a few people who outright have it out for Solid.


LOL, yes its a regular inquisition.
Give me a reason why it wouldn't be Solid and Liquid. They might share the same scars from when they were born. Yes, people aren't born with scars, we have that. But these kids are clones. Plus like you said, Kojima does shit like this. Scars does not justify the ignorance of the twins.
Liquid has a British accent, unlike Snake, suggesting they grew up in very different circumstances. Snake was unaware that he was a clone of Big Boss, and unaware of Liquid.

Why would Solid be dressed EXACTLY THE SAME as Liquid? It would be one thing if they were wearing the same uniform or something like that, but Eli's outfit (featuring jackal teeth, I might add) is unique and customized. So, not only were Solid and Liquid together at some point in the past, there was a conscious attempt on their part at disguise. So Solid met Liquid and BB as a child in Africa?

There's also the scar that people mentioned.

It seems more likely to me that this is a hallucination, dream sequence, or symbolic representation relating to Liquid's feelings about knowing he has a clone. The entire scene has this weird, dreamlike quality to it. Compare that to the scene with maybe-a-clone Paz.

Not that one of them actually being Solid is impossible, but it seems less likely to me.
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The Doctor
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abstract-one
Jun 16 2015, 09:39:56 PM
The Doctor
Jun 16 2015, 09:33:24 PM
abstract-one
Jun 16 2015, 09:27:50 PM
Instead of getting cranky defensive about it, why don't you offer up your thoughts on why they would share the same exact scars. Without just stating its irrelevant because you choose to see it as irrelevant. We could probably move the conversation forward that way. Genuinely curious why they would have the same scars. Kojima is a little wacky in rationalizing these sorts of things, but I can't think of a way of wording why they would have the same scars.

I remember someone suggesting earlier that they would have to look exactly alike for some obtuse reason, so that no one could tell them apart. Perhaps so that Big Boss couldn't tell them apart. Seems baseless to me. Why?


Acid
 
Seems there is just no pleasing a few people who outright have it out for Solid.


LOL, yes its a regular inquisition.
Give me a reason why it wouldn't be Solid and Liquid. They might share the same scars from when they were born. Yes, people aren't born with scars, we have that. But these kids are clones. Plus like you said, Kojima does shit like this. Scars does not justify the ignorance of the twins.
You might as well ask me the explanation for Paz being in the trailers. We don't know about that, and we don't know about why there are potentially two Liquids or why both Liquid and Solid would have the same scars. Both theories are weird to explain.

Yes Kojima could invent some obtuse symbolic reason for them having the same scars. But unless I can think of what that reason might be I'm skeptical towards it. I have hard enough time thinking of a reason why they would dress exactly the same, and be hanging out with one another in some weird trance like state.

Scars are not genetic, so pointing out they are clones does nothing.

We could say they have implants in them. That cuts were made in the same spots to implant something, but it really does not look those kind of scars at all.
PazThere is no official confirmation, yes, but its a dead Giveaway. Some twins wear the same.things anyways, maybe its uniform, nobody knows. It certainly looked like Solid. The facial pose similar to MGS1, the difference in the two Elis, I could go on

Plus you can't compare freaking normal birthis to the Les Enfants Terribles Project. There will have been some defects to the twins. Some physical (scars?), some not.
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He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games.
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abstract-one
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Kazuhira
Jun 16 2015, 09:44:29 PM
It is stated in MGS1 that Liquid and Solid are identical. Like to water drops. The only difference is the hair colour and skin tone. Being identical means they shares scars and that kind of stuff.
No it doesn't. There is a difference between being identical, and being virtually impossible to distinguish from one another.

Real life twins are referred to as identical, but the people who know them still quickly develop means of telling them apart. Little things.

Kitty
 

It seems more likely to me that this is a hallucination, dream sequence, or symbolic representation relating to Liquid's feelings about knowing he has a clone. The entire scene has this weird, dreamlike quality to it. Compare that to the scene with maybe-a-clone Paz.


I really like this explanation.

Edited by abstract-one, Jun 16 2015, 09:52:44 PM.
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KoRnFlakes
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Kazuhira
Jun 16 2015, 09:44:29 PM
Being identical means they shares scars and that kind of stuff.
...No, no no no no, hell no, just...no. Being identical twins does not mean they share scars. All that means is that they're identical on the genetic level and share the same or similar physical features. Not that they share scars, when one twin gets injured and scarred from it, the other doesn't have a scar in the exact same spot magically appear out of thin air.
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You ever wonder...if any of the MGS franchise rations...includes pancakes?

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Edgelord
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A nutjob without borders

Btw almost every blonde guy i know has their hair going brown in adult life. Keifer sutherlands hair was blonde as fuq before he turned 35.

But anyhoo shouldnt the whole solid snake theory belong in the theory thread?

OT: this trailer keeps giving me the feeling that the franchise will truly come full circle
BEFORE THY BECOMES SALTY WITH THE TEARS OF BEING OFFENDED.
BEHOLD THE FIELD IN WHICH I GROW MY FUCKS TO GIVE.
LAY THINE EYES UPON IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BARREN
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Intandem
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scottish_nutjob
Jun 16 2015, 09:57:41 PM
Btw almost every blonde guy i know has their hair going brown in adult life. Keifer sutherlands hair was blonde as fuq before he turned 35.

But anyhoo shouldnt the whole solid snake theory belong in the theory thread?

OT: this trailer keeps giving me the feeling that the franchise will truly come full circle
It relates to the trailer discussion.

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CraigUK
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scottish_nutjob
Jun 16 2015, 09:57:41 PM
Btw almost every blonde guy i know has their hair going brown in adult life. Keifer sutherlands hair was blonde as fuq before he turned 35.

But anyhoo shouldnt the whole solid snake theory belong in the theory thread?

OT: this trailer keeps giving me the feeling that the franchise will truly come full circle
We started out discussing the trailer, and how solid is/isn't in it. With screenshots. I don't see how it could be more about the trailer.

It has derailed a little, sure but that is still the topic of discussion.
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00steven
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Jun 16 2015, 09:25:02 PM
I don't get what the twins are doing in the clip... they seem tuned out, it's weird

Probably why Snake doesn't remember meeting him. Have they even been let out of the pod?
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00steven
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It's kind of surprising to me that people are so upset with those who think it's Solid Snake. I mean they show two "twins" and we even here the phrase "Les Enfants Terribles" dropped. Is it that far fetched?
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abstract-one
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00steven
Jun 16 2015, 10:32:43 PM
It's kind of surprising to me that people are so upset with those who think it's Solid Snake. I mean they show two "twins" and we even here the phrase "Les Enfants Terribles" dropped. Is it that far fetched?
Have you even read this thread?

Are some people just incapable of addressing other people's points without straw-manning them completely? No but thanks for pointing out the obvious without addressing any of the valid points as to why it isn't Solid and Liquid, as if you hadn't read them at all.
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vlad06
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My offer still stands, if anyone wants to put money on Solid Snake being in the game I'll happily "take yo cheese yo."
PSN ID: realvlad06
FOB: Sons of Liquid

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Xenocide
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CraigUK
Jun 16 2015, 09:25:48 PM



People who get scars tend to accidentally get them.
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Sorry, had to :innocent:
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Crimson Rex
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Why are people going crazy over two Elis when we should be talking about the hot naked clone of Pacifica?
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Whiskey Grin
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vlad06
Jun 16 2015, 10:48:26 PM
My offer still stands, if anyone wants to put money on Solid Snake being in the game I'll happily "take yo cheese yo."
I'd take that bet.

Solid Snake will be in the game at some point. I don't see Kojima bring the story "full circle" without including Solid in this game somewhere. I'm not saying he will have a large part, but he definitely wont be completely missed and instead have 2 Elis in it.
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Tricerius
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Jun 16 2015, 11:05:20 PM
Why are people going crazy over two Elis when we should be talking about the hot naked clone of Pacifica?
Because nobody really seems to care about Paz/Pacifica.
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CraigUK
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Jun 16 2015, 11:07:55 PM
vlad06
Jun 16 2015, 10:48:26 PM
My offer still stands, if anyone wants to put money on Solid Snake being in the game I'll happily "take yo cheese yo."
I'd take that bet.

Solid Snake will be in the game at some point. I don't see Kojima bring the story "full circle" without including Solid in this game somewhere. I'm not saying he will have a large part, but he definitely wont be completely missed and instead have 2 Elis in it.
I will eat my 1:2 scale collectors edition hand if the scene depicted at the end of the trailer ends up being liquid and solid.
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