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| Eli and David - Can We Please Settle This? (POSSIBLE SPOILERS) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 16 2015, 11:42:22 PM (6,054 Views) | |
| EmmGeeEss | Jun 16 2015, 11:42:22 PM Post #1 |
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WHAT, SWEEP?!
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As we all know (and were subsequently completely and utterly mindfucked by), anyone who watched the fantastic E3 2015 trailer yesterday saw something very strange indeed: two Elis sitting side-by-side in a chopper at the end of the trailer. ...BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?! Many here are saying that it must be Eli and David (aka Liquid and Solid Snake), and are toting it as stone cold fact, because, for one, they're twins and the two look exactly alike; and two, Big Boss says "Les Enfants Terribles..." while the camera is zoomed right in on the face of Eli #2. Those are the only things in support of the two being Eli and David, unless, of course, the second Eli's character model is being used as a replacement for the real David for the purposes of the trailer. (In my personal opinion, I think peoples' excitement and wishful thinking got the better of them.) However, many (myself included) are also saying that it isn't (and simply can't be) David sitting next to Eli. For one, Solid and Liquid Snake never once met before the Shadow Moses incident. Now, this can easily be retconned to include some sort of brainwashing and memory alteration stuff to make it all work (if they even decide to go down that line and not just retcon it to make a good story), but here's the kicker: why are the two Elis not only dressed exactly the same, right down to the necklaces, but also have the exact same scars? Twins are extremely similar, both in terms of personality and taste, but they're certainly not real-time duplicates of one another. 'Les Enfants Terribles' doesn't necessarily refer to the results of the project, but, rather, the project as a whole - otherwise, you'd have Solidus sitting next to them as well. This begs the question: what in the fuck is going on with the second Eli?! What does it mean? Can we get a discussion going that might offer some kind of explanation as to why it absolutely is or isn't Eli and David? GO! |
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| £ | Jun 17 2015, 12:02:10 AM Post #2 |
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The other child does not have a scar on his cheek, but either way it isn't a signifier of anything in particular; Chico has that scar on his cheek so whether or not the both have a scar is somewhat irrelevant. |
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| trimegadon | Jun 17 2015, 12:02:23 AM Post #3 |
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all out.
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Personally i dont think thats david next to Eli. Its just a way of portraying the theme of phantoms, other selfes etc. If you watch closely you will notice that the moment Eli is closing his eyes the other one opens his.This might be the moment he realises he is a clone so the "phantom" of him gets awakened and perfectly illustrates the inner battle of what he was told he is vs what he trully came to be. There is so much going on in this trailer that makes this even more diffcult to comprehend. Clones , people used as experiments and so on, that David, which i trully believe will be referenced or even shown later in the game,has nothing to do with that particular scene. Edited by trimegadon, Jun 17 2015, 12:10:10 AM.
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| FalcoPelle | Jun 17 2015, 12:17:17 AM Post #4 |
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Light Infantry
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In my opinion this is a bad, bad way to remember and introduce Solid Snake in the last Kojima MG trailer... no clues left, no particular sign.. and if there's Solid Snake maybe he's the first child not the second zoomed, in fact we can hear a sort of Liquid's voice "Les enfants terribles" from mgs1 in that exact moment with Liquid 2 |
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Metal Gear Planet | |
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| £ | Jun 17 2015, 12:18:53 AM Post #5 |
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Yeah, it's almost as if there's no way to know for certain until the game comes out, rendering this thread pointless! Almost. |
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| abstract-one | Jun 17 2015, 12:19:51 AM Post #6 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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I initially thought it was David and Eli, because the scene is revealed in such a way alongside the KieferSnake quote that is what it seems to imply. However I voted Eli and not David. I don't care if it contradicts MGS1 that they have already met by this time, as Kojima might not care either. I do find it strange that they would be dressed exactly alike, down to the custom Jackal tooth necklace. But if this strangeness were the only reason to think it wasn't both David and Eli, that wouldn't be much and I would have to conclude anyways that we're seeing David. However it is the scars which make me think something else is going on here, and we're not seeing Solid Snake in this scene. As much as some people were trying to pretend that its an irrelevant detail, it really isn't and can't be easily explained away. Clones don't share scares. They have five scars in common. The sixth one on the left clone's cheek is probably there on the other one but we can't see it because of the lighting. This said, I do still think Solid Snake will be in the game in some way, and I think its even possible MGS1 will be "retconned" and the two will know each other during this time period. It does not even have to be an official retcon, its just a story possibility that some players will achieve and others won't (remember its possible to beat the game without ever encountering Quiet. Is meeting her canon? You decide, Kojima does not care) This clip in the trailer then, alongside the Big Boss quote, is just winking at us that Les Enfants Terrible will be covered in the game and that Solid will physically show up as well. That two Liquid Snakes are shown, can be explained. Its just a matter of context, there were some good suggestions as to the context in the other thread. One possible explanation: Imagine there is a cut scene, after Eli has been brought to Motherbase or is being brought there in the chopper. We hear Big Boss talking about LET with another character (just as we did in the trailer). Keep in mind us fans know about the LET project and the two clones, but not everyone playing MGSV will. So its explained to noobs in this conversation. While LET is being discussed by Big Boss, the camera jumps over to show Eli in this scene. "So there is another child out there just like Eli" we hear, and to visually represent this point in the conversation we see two of Eli alongside each other. So we find and bring Eli back to Motherbase first. It may be possible to do the same with Solid. This conversation about LET is a kind of heads up to the player, to keep an eye out for the other clone. The game is just visually showing to the noob players that a twin is running around out there somewhere, you might find him, and remember the little fucker looks exactly like his brother Eli. He is identical to Eli naturally, probably even has blonde hair, but he wouldn't be so identical to be virtually impossible to distinguish them. Clones don't share scars. Simple. And it is possible to explain seeing two of Eli. Edited by abstract-one, Jun 17 2015, 12:32:45 AM.
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| £ | Jun 17 2015, 12:30:06 AM Post #7 |
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If you can see a scar on the low brightness picture then you have some amazing eyes. I'm saying at a glance that there's no scars there, but it's pretty much impossible to say for certain either way. |
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| abstract-one | Jun 17 2015, 12:35:02 AM Post #8 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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I couldn't see them until CraigUK brightened up the images and circled the scars. Here you go, right click and view to blow it up larger:
Edited by abstract-one, Jun 17 2015, 12:35:59 AM.
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| £ | Jun 17 2015, 12:37:55 AM Post #9 |
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Well shit, colour me incorrect. |
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| The Doctor | Jun 17 2015, 12:40:42 AM Post #10 |
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Welcome to Outer Heaven
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David and Eli... Now lets go through why I think it is. Mainly the pose that the first twin pulls. The facial expression on the first face just screams SOLID SNAKE at me. Kinda like MGS1. It has that shallow, sincere look that Solid Snake has. They certainly look alike. I don't think it is some kind of hallucination but with everything going on, it won't shock me. Heck I won't be shocked if the entire event was a hallucination and we return with Snake vs The Boss in MGS3 haha. But ye, then KieferBoss mentions L.E.T...As if Kojima is saying, YOU'RE RIGHT FOLKS, It is Liquid. Nothing can deny Eli is Liquid now and if you're still not convinced, I question you. The scars are nothing to me. Maybe it was part of what happened with the Les Enfant Terribles project. Who knows. It's not a thing that concerns me, nor is the blonde hair. Solid Snake had blonde hair and even if someone confirms to me he never, he could still go from blonde to brown. I know I did. Same with the hairstyle, it can be cut and had Liquid's hair in MGS1 before it was cut. I know Snake said he never met his brother before but there is a possibility he might've forgotten or Mantis (seen as though he is in the game) may have brainwashed him. I don't know...All I know is, Liquid is Eli, nothing changes that. |
![]() He mentioned something interesting... Konami, they claim that what they're doing in Casinos are the missing piece... money, to surpass video games. The Gifs of Karen Gillan
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| Skullsuit | Jun 17 2015, 12:40:49 AM Post #11 |
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I'll keep coming
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It could just be a kid wondering what his twin brother looks like. Or maybe it's an awakening of Eli's evil future self, and the Eli closing his eyes is his innocent child self. Or maybe it's Mantis taking on his form to mess with him. The doppelganger could be there for one of a dozen reasons but my brain is telling that the second Eli is not David. Edit: Just rewatched the E3 trailer. At the 3:32 mark we see Kid Mantis with a red fabric (or something red) hooked on his left shoulder. Previous footage of Kid Mantis didn't have this. But Eli has always been shown with a red fabric on his left shoulder. What does this mean, Kojima!? Edited by Skullsuit, Jun 17 2015, 01:10:12 AM.
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| Naked, with a baby, on a beach, with five dudes watching. | |
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| kim kim | Jun 17 2015, 04:09:13 AM Post #12 |
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Snake! Snake! SNAAAAAAKE!
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If you guys are going to discuss Eli and Liquid then you might want to post in the thread I made a while ago. It was also in the Important Index Thread. Eli/ Liquid Snake Thread Edited by kim kim, Jun 17 2015, 04:12:49 AM.
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| Crimson Rex | Jun 17 2015, 06:40:05 AM Post #13 |
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Sparkle Sparkle Sparkle
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I'm kinda neutral, I'm still in denial of Eli being Liquid. |
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| ideologic | Jun 17 2015, 06:56:27 AM Post #14 |
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doggySTYLE
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Yeah maybe Eli himself is just a Phantom. Just like Spoiler: click to toggle
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tha diamonddoggfather Add me on PSN ideologic_ mofuggin tactical operational dick in yo mouth, beeeatch. ![]() Diamond Dogs Recruitment - Aw shit. Old lady sent ya to the doghouse ageeein? Make sure its this one. other sigs and stuff
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| thabtoUK | Jun 17 2015, 08:25:31 AM Post #15 |
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Light Infantry
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I find it strange that people keeping on referencing the scars on the characters faces, but seem to completely ignore the fact the voiceover clearly states "Les Enfants Terribles" during the scene. Therefore, I think it's obviously meant to be Eli and David (Solid Snake) ![]() Or we're meant to think it is at least
Edited by thabtoUK, Jun 17 2015, 08:28:57 AM.
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| big_boss1988 | Jun 17 2015, 08:29:33 AM Post #16 |
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I Am The Hype
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I see by the poll that Kojima succeeded confusing the community which is a good thing. |
![]() Spoiler: click to toggle MGSF PEACE
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| Demon | Jun 17 2015, 09:09:03 AM Post #17 |
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Heavily-Armed Trooper
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I think they show 2 Elis for mind fuck.Maybe Kojima wants not revealing David's looking for great moment.And He replaced David by Eli.Same Scar,same outfit,same hair can done by someone else for some reason.But LET Voice over by Big Boss and same face pretty BIG reference to Solid,Liquid and Solidus |
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| Venture | Jun 17 2015, 09:16:44 AM Post #18 |
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mfw dante calls me a cunt
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Nobody's ignoring it. Big Boss referring to the project that created Eli/Liquid doesn't definitively mean anything about the identity of the second iteration of him. It would have made just as much sense for him to have said it with one Eli on the screen. |
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| Edgelord | Jun 17 2015, 09:17:35 AM Post #19 |
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A nutjob without borders
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You can't settle it!!! You'll just have to wait 2 months. Its just 8 weeks. Fuck, i waited a lot longer than that just to get my fiance to put out |
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BEFORE THY BECOMES SALTY WITH THE TEARS OF BEING OFFENDED. BEHOLD THE FIELD IN WHICH I GROW MY FUCKS TO GIVE. LAY THINE EYES UPON IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BARREN | |
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| CIA | Jun 17 2015, 11:31:15 AM Post #20 |
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How I see it at least...![]() Guys. It's Liquid and Solid. Not two Liquids. They have the same numbers over their face and same looking letters under their portrait because they're identical twins. Come on guys. Don't you know anything about cloning? Edited by CIA, Jun 17 2015, 11:46:14 AM.
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![]() Departed: I hate MGS 1 because I'm old. Forum Bling
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