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Eli and David - Can We Please Settle This? (POSSIBLE SPOILERS)
Topic Started: Jun 16 2015, 11:42:22 PM (6,058 Views)
AbudJasemAlBaldawi
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Well, if the Les Enfants Terribles comment confirms that its Liquid and Solid, then where the fuck is Solidus? It's just confirmation of Eli being Liquid done in a way meant to fuck with us. Twins are identical genetically, scars aren't genetic.
Edited by AbudJasemAlBaldawi, Jun 17 2015, 11:50:31 AM.
You too have known loss, and that loss torments you still. You hope hatred might someday replace the pain, but it never goes away.

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CIA
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AbudJasemAlBaldawi
Jun 17 2015, 11:50:19 AM
Well, if the Les Enfants Terribles comment confirms that its Liquid and Solid, then where the fuck is Solidus? It's just confirmation of Eli being Liquid done in a way meant to fuck with us. Twins are identical genetically, scars aren't genetic.
Was Solidus one of the original octuplets or was he separate? I forgot.
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NoHero
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What we saw in the trailer is either a young decoy octupus or someone with similar powers.
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AbudJasemAlBaldawi
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diamondsnobs
Jun 17 2015, 11:53:51 AM
AbudJasemAlBaldawi
Jun 17 2015, 11:50:19 AM
Well, if the Les Enfants Terribles comment confirms that its Liquid and Solid, then where the fuck is Solidus? It's just confirmation of Eli being Liquid done in a way meant to fuck with us. Twins are identical genetically, scars aren't genetic.
Was Solidus one of the original octuplets or was he separate? I forgot.
He was seperate, an exact clone of Big Boss
You too have known loss, and that loss torments you still. You hope hatred might someday replace the pain, but it never goes away.

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CraigUK
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AbudJasemAlBaldawi
Jun 17 2015, 02:01:04 PM
diamondsnobs
Jun 17 2015, 11:53:51 AM
AbudJasemAlBaldawi
Jun 17 2015, 11:50:19 AM
Well, if the Les Enfants Terribles comment confirms that its Liquid and Solid, then where the fuck is Solidus? It's just confirmation of Eli being Liquid done in a way meant to fuck with us. Twins are identical genetically, scars aren't genetic.
Was Solidus one of the original octuplets or was he separate? I forgot.
He was seperate, an exact clone of Big Boss
Born the same year though right ? And still part of the LET project
Edited by CraigUK, Jun 17 2015, 02:52:18 PM.
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AbudJasemAlBaldawi
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CraigUK
Jun 17 2015, 02:51:10 PM
AbudJasemAlBaldawi
Jun 17 2015, 02:01:04 PM
diamondsnobs
Jun 17 2015, 11:53:51 AM
AbudJasemAlBaldawi
Jun 17 2015, 11:50:19 AM
Well, if the Les Enfants Terribles comment confirms that its Liquid and Solid, then where the fuck is Solidus? It's just confirmation of Eli being Liquid done in a way meant to fuck with us. Twins are identical genetically, scars aren't genetic.
Was Solidus one of the original octuplets or was he separate? I forgot.
He was seperate, an exact clone of Big Boss
Born the same year though right ? And still part of the LET project
Seeing as it ended in 1976, he could've been born anywhere in between 1972 and 1976. Solid and Liquid, however, were definitely born somewhere between 1972 and 1974, since in the secret tape in PW Kaz says "Speaking of which, any news on the "sons"...? Two already... Really.." That last comment is either referring to their age or the number of clones. If it is referring to their age (which is far more likely), then Solid and Liquid at least were definitely born in '72.
Edited by AbudJasemAlBaldawi, Jun 17 2015, 03:04:22 PM.
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ballisticola
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diamondsnobs
Jun 17 2015, 11:31:15 AM
How I see it at least...
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Guys. It's Liquid and Solid. Not two Liquids. They have the same numbers over their face and same looking letters under their portrait because they're identical twins. Come on guys. Don't you know anything about cloning?
That was a joke right?
Metal Gear Solid V: Lord of the Parasites - a study of MGSV
Mission 46: The Painful Truth
The Science of Metal Gear: Who is the dominant Snake?

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RazorSnake
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I'd say different persons. I don't see why'd they'd have the same clothes in that case. It could be a dream of Liquid's that makes him start to question who he really is or something Mantis is doing.
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Crimson Rex
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ballisticola
Jun 17 2015, 04:19:11 PM
That was a joke right?
Don't be too hard on him, they do look alike after all. :blush:
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The Gentleman Phantom
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I honestly don't see any reason to not think it's Solid & Liquid since they are twins...but it's the fact that people suddenly believe scars are genetic that makes me scratch my head, along with the fact people haven't realized BB's scars were non-existent when the twins were spawned anyway. It's one big WTF moment when I hear people bringing up the scars.

But is Hayter the reason people are so dead set that it can't be Solid? Personally, I could care less about Hayter but I also doubt they'd have him VA a child. People have been set on seeing Solid in TPP, now that we get this major tease people suddenly (and literally) can't believe it...lol. It could be that Eli was cloned, but that just makes less sense than just having the twins be the twins we know of while cueing in BB talking about LET. I don't think Kojima purposely wants to piss off fans that badly.
Edited by The Gentleman Phantom, Jun 18 2015, 12:23:48 AM.
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CIA
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The Gentleman Phantom
Jun 18 2015, 12:22:24 AM
I honestly don't see any reason to not think it's Solid & Liquid since they are twins...but it's the fact that people suddenly believe scars are genetic that makes me scratch my head, along with the fact people haven't realized BB's scars were non-existent when the twins were spawned anyway. It's one big WTF moment when I hear people bringing up the scars.

But is Hayter the reason people are so dead set that it can't be Solid? Personally, I could care less about Hayter but I also doubt they'd have him VA a child. People have been set on seeing Solid in TPP, now that we get this major tease people suddenly (and literally) can't believe it...lol. It could be that Eli was cloned, but that just makes less sense than just having the twins be the twins we know of while cueing in BB talking about LET. I don't think Kojima purposely wants to piss off fans that badly.
I trust Kojima in telling the story he wants to tell in the way he wants to tell it.

I don't want it to be Solid just because I can't think of a good way to put Solid and Liquid in the same place and not tamper with MGS1, which was the game that made me respect games. It feels like C3P0 being in the Star Wars prequels for fan service and getting a memory wipe for the sake of canon. It feels like the JJ Abrams Star Trek reboot blowing up Vulcan and tampering with all the future canon movies and TV series and saying, meh, alternate universe. As a fan, I'm concerned something stupid will happen. My biggest concern is MGS4 showed me that Kojima can do some stupid things in the name of fan service. That being said. I'll trust Kojima.
Edited by CIA, Jun 18 2015, 12:37:05 AM.
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Jim Houseman
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I don't think the matching scars are definite proof of anything to be honest. You can argue Kojipro would or wouldn't make two twins with the same scars, but if it was scanned in from a real person including the scars then it's easy to see how that might happen. If you watch a movie with an actor playing dual roles you'll also be able to spot improbably similar defects if you look close enough, so all of that is moot.


To me it's simply the mysterious framing of the scene and the setup we've seen of the character that doesn't fit with him living with an identical companion with identical clothes.
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Infiltrator
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Wow would you look at that. The poll is split perfectly in half. Somewhere out there Kojima is laughing that he succeeded in confusing the mgs community.
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You stop right fucking there and apologies Infiltrator . CIA is many things; a has been meme master, a baneposter who ran it to the ground so bad to where it stopped being funny, a complete and utter podcast tsundere but I will NOT allow you to call him a shitty Gary Stu who killed a 7 part book series. That's just mean and unfair.

Sorry if I sound angry but this was too much, even with the strike in mind.


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thabtoUK
Jun 17 2015, 08:25:31 AM
I find it strange that people keeping on referencing the scars on the characters faces, but seem to completely ignore the fact the voiceover clearly states "Les Enfants Terribles" during the scene.

Therefore, I think it's obviously meant to be Eli and David (Solid Snake) :)

Or we're meant to think it is at least ;)
Like how the Red Band trailer shows D-Walker and the voiceover states "A weapon to surpass Metal Gear."

Or how the Nuclear trailer says "Coming 1984" and then shows the Konami Logo sitting next to the Kojima Productions Logo while the voiceover states "I will always be with you."

I'm thinking we're meant to think it is Liquid and Solid, because that's the blatant obvious conclusion to draw if you want to ignore it would be of the biggest retcons in Metal Gear history. But every time we get a new piece of information, everything we thought we knew changes. Drastically.
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Revolver_Santiago
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I think it's Eli and David, BUT I don't think this is an actual scene from the game. I know Kojima said this game may break canon, but for some reason I don't think he'd retcon when Liquid and Solid meet for the first time. So I think they're both in this game but don't ever meet, therefore this scene is deliberately manufactured for this trailer to make everyone go bonkers.
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soggydan1
Jun 18 2015, 02:08:59 AM
I think it's Eli and David, BUT I don't think this is an actual scene from the game. I know Kojima said this game may break canon, but for some reason I don't think he'd retcon when Liquid and Solid meet for the first time. So I think they're both in this game but don't ever meet, therefore this scene is deliberately manufactured for this trailer to make everyone go bonkers.
A canon break to surpass Snake's Revenge.
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The Merciless Warrior
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I think it's just symbolism. Besides, technically speaking, Snake and Liquid aren't identical. They look very similar though. They're mostly Big Boss so that's why there is such an overlap in appearance, but there are differences, one has all of Big Boss' dominant genes another has all of Big Boss' recessive genes.
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Ultimasnake
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It's has to be David. Otherwise what significance would that end reveal have? Would would Multiple clones of Eli achieve regarding the narrative? Anyone who watched the MGS1 briefing knows about David's hair & the mention of LET just confirms it.

On a side note, I am thrilled we're getting a game with Big Boss that tackles LET, not being present in Portable Ops & Peace Walker was just frustrating! This truly is the Metal Gear I've wanted since 3.
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CIA
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Ultimasnake
Jun 18 2015, 10:22:19 AM
It's has to be David. Otherwise what significance would that end reveal have? Would would Multiple clones of Eli achieve regarding the narrative? Anyone who watched the MGS1 briefing knows about David's hair & the mention of LET just confirms it.

On a side note, I am thrilled we're getting a game with Big Boss that tackles LET, not being present in Portable Ops & Peace Walker was just frustrating! This truly is the Metal Gear I've wanted since 3.
What about David's hair?
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Ultimasnake
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diamondsnobs
Jun 18 2015, 10:44:51 AM
Ultimasnake
Jun 18 2015, 10:22:19 AM
It's has to be David. Otherwise what significance would that end reveal have? Would would Multiple clones of Eli achieve regarding the narrative? Anyone who watched the MGS1 briefing knows about David's hair & the mention of LET just confirms it.

On a side note, I am thrilled we're getting a game with Big Boss that tackles LET, not being present in Portable Ops & Peace Walker was just frustrating! This truly is the Metal Gear I've wanted since 3.
What about David's hair?


It's somewhere on this briefing Video, that is Solid Snake and he is blonde, but they do mention about it somewhere in the video too.
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