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Eli and David - Can We Please Settle This? (POSSIBLE SPOILERS)
Topic Started: Jun 16 2015, 11:42:22 PM (6,057 Views)
CIA
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Ultimasnake
Jun 18 2015, 10:53:52 AM
diamondsnobs
Jun 18 2015, 10:44:51 AM
Ultimasnake
Jun 18 2015, 10:22:19 AM
It's has to be David. Otherwise what significance would that end reveal have? Would would Multiple clones of Eli achieve regarding the narrative? Anyone who watched the MGS1 briefing knows about David's hair & the mention of LET just confirms it.

On a side note, I am thrilled we're getting a game with Big Boss that tackles LET, not being present in Portable Ops & Peace Walker was just frustrating! This truly is the Metal Gear I've wanted since 3.
What about David's hair?


It's somewhere on this briefing Video, that is Solid Snake and he is blonde, but they do mention about it somewhere in the video too.
Didn't he only ask for scissors to cut his hair? Where would they keep hair dye on a top secret military marine? Why did he dye his hair before infiltrating outer heaven? Why did he dye his hair before Zanzibar land? Why did he dye his hair before the tanker in mgs2? Why did he dye his hair before disguising himself as Plisken?

Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by CIA, Jun 18 2015, 11:06:28 AM.
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ballisticola
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Still we carry you.

Can we not get onto that again? :D

I saw it as the awakening of the Liquid we know in the Liquid we don't. The second Liquid is what Skull Face is to Big Boss. And I thought mentioning L.E.T was pretty obviously confirming Eli as Liquid. Not everyone will have analyzed the trailers or have seen Kojima's tweets.
Metal Gear Solid V: Lord of the Parasites - a study of MGSV
Mission 46: The Painful Truth
The Science of Metal Gear: Who is the dominant Snake?

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FalcoPelle
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100% agree, especially because you can see that first Eli closes his eyes and Second Liquid opens his at the same time

Solid is a surprise appearance like Gray Fox
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Smells Like Zorro
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ballisticola
Jun 18 2015, 11:22:18 AM
Can we not get onto that again? :D

I saw it as the awakening of the Liquid we know in the Liquid we don't. The second Liquid is what Skull Face is to Big Boss. And I thought mentioning L.E.T was pretty obviously confirming Eli as Liquid. Not everyone will have analyzed the trailers or have seen Kojima's tweets.
I'm not completely sure I agree, but that's a fantastic thought. Pretty solid.
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Kelesis
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"Mankind will come together, reunited between these fluffy buns."
Let's move onto a new body part to analyze. The eyes.

So after downloading the higher quality video of the trailer - the first Eli's eyes are blue. 100%.
Spoiler: click to toggle


I cannot say though, 100% that the second Eli's eyes are blue as well. There's a lot of lighting in that close up.

Spoiler: click to toggle



So, MGS fans - the question is - what color eyes does Liquid Snake have?
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FalcoPelle
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difficult question, there have always been many speculations from chapter to chapter, game from game...

blue? green? brown? light effects?
Edited by FalcoPelle, Jun 19 2015, 10:59:37 PM.
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ballisticola
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Still we carry you.

The one and only reference is some artwork where he has green eyes.
Metal Gear Solid V: Lord of the Parasites - a study of MGSV
Mission 46: The Painful Truth
The Science of Metal Gear: Who is the dominant Snake?

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OMG_Its_Grayfox
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Smells Like Zorro
Jun 19 2015, 11:58:47 AM
ballisticola
Jun 18 2015, 11:22:18 AM
Can we not get onto that again? :D

I saw it as the awakening of the Liquid we know in the Liquid we don't. The second Liquid is what Skull Face is to Big Boss. And I thought mentioning L.E.T was pretty obviously confirming Eli as Liquid. Not everyone will have analyzed the trailers or have seen Kojima's tweets.
I'm not completely sure I agree, but that's a fantastic thought. Pretty solid.
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SlyIsSNaKe
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I guess they would dress the same too with the same shirt and same necklaces...Open Your Eyes :blink:
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CIA
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Twins look similar guys. I don't know why there's a debate. Solid and Liquid are identical clones.

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The Gentleman Phantom
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I think all the anti-Solid talk has led me to believe it's Liquid and Solid lol. But there's just no reason for Kojima to make such an obvious tease that the fans have been dying for all to not deliver. Plus what reason is there to NOT make it Solid...they are twins, twins looks alike...and um...yeah...
Edited by The Gentleman Phantom, Jun 20 2015, 03:14:40 AM.
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liviobruno
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what if theyre another hidden project, mixing big boss and the boss's genes? kojima wouldnt do anything that obvious (liquid and solid), theres gotta be a twist somewhere
Edited by liviobruno, Jun 20 2015, 03:42:26 AM.
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Webbie
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I don't think it's Solid Snake personally. I think the scene is hinting to the LET project and basically just letting us know that the game will cover it, but if/when we see Solid in the game I don't expect him to have the same scars and be wearing the same clothing, necklace, etc.
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thabtoUK
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For everyone who's arguing that the scars, hair colour and clothes prove that "second Eli" isn't Solid Snake, go and watch Christopher Nolan's "The Prestige".

This will give you some idea how this argument doesn't really prove anything one way or the other ;)
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Webbie
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I think most of us realize that stuff doesn't prove anything, but being indentical doesn't prove it's Solid either. It's certainly a strong argument, but I wouldn't put it past Kojima to put what appears to be a perfect reflection of Eli there and mention LET just to let us know we'll be touching that subject in the game. It doesn't automatically have to be Solid just because he looks identical to Eli.

We won't know if it's a retcon until we can actually play the game.
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abstract-one
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thabtoUK
Jun 20 2015, 08:52:28 AM
For everyone who's arguing that the scars, hair colour and clothes prove that "second Eli" isn't Solid Snake, go and watch Christopher Nolan's "The Prestige".

This will give you some idea how this argument doesn't really prove anything one way or the other ;)
I watched the movie a long time ago. Why don't you just explain the point you are trying to make instead of snobbishly winking at people and telling them to go look it up? Yes I know the Christian Bale character had a twin, and they didn't let anyone know that there was more then one of them so they could do a magic trick. But Liquid and Solid are not best bros playing at magic tricks because it amuses them to confuse people.

"It happened in The Prestige" is not a good argument.

You are climbing Mt. Improbable, you are terribly out of shape, and the Sherpa who was literally carrying you up the Mountain just died from exhaustion.
Edited by abstract-one, Jun 20 2015, 09:23:50 AM.
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thabtoUK
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abstract-one
Jun 20 2015, 09:23:12 AM
But Liquid and Solid are not best bros playing at magic tricks because it amuses them to confuse people..
They could be have been, we just don't know at this point.

We all know that Kojima has retconned important character backstory in past games and that he's said he won't be sticking to canon for The Phantom Pain.

Kojima has also used memory implants for both Raiden and Ocelot has used memory implants, psychotherapy, drugs and hypnosis to explain how their memories or ways of thinking have been altered.

And using a decoy or a double to confuse your enemies has been used for a long time in politics and the military:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_decoy

What better double to use than your twin clone? :)
abstract-one
Jun 20 2015, 09:23:12 AM
"It happened in The Prestige" is not a good argument.
I was just saying that "The Prestige" illustrates that the two Eil's having the same colour hair, scars and clothes, doesn't prove they can't be separate people :innocent:

And with that said, I'm now more than happy to shut up about this subject until September ;)
Edited by thabtoUK, Jun 20 2015, 09:50:03 AM.
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CIA
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Les Enfants Terribles.

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I'm like that other Christopher Nolan movie, Memento. But instead of being unable to make new memories, I can't make new opinions.

Til September, then.

Edit: If Kojima is really throwing away the established story entirely, I'd really love it if Solid and Liquid pulled rabbits out of hats.
Edited by CIA, Jun 20 2015, 01:01:27 PM.
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M V P
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I still haven't seen a good response to the scars argument.
Let's say it really is liquid and solid. There's no way they decided to dress the same and there's no way they accidentally got the same scars. That means that someone would have made them dress alike and would have scared them identically on purpose. But what would they gain from doing that?
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OMG_Its_Grayfox
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Jun 20 2015, 02:28:00 PM
I still haven't seen a good response to the scars argument.
Let's say it really is liquid and solid. There's no way they decided to dress the same and there's no way they accidentally got the same scars. That means that someone would have made them dress alike and would have scared them identically on purpose. But what would they gain from doing that?
I'm just pissing in the wind here, but what if, at some point, Big Boss manages to capture both Liquid and Solid, and, as a security measure, makes them identical so that Cipher can't distinguish between them. Or maybe Cipher did it to confuse Big Boss.
Not for any nation. Not for any ideology. Not for justice. Not for honor. Not for power. Not for the future. Not for love. Not for peace. ONLY FOR REVENGE.
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