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| Could Ground Zeroes not actually have happened? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 22 2015, 07:54:41 PM (3,082 Views) | |
| abstract-one | Jun 25 2015, 12:28:59 PM Post #21 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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The primary reason Kojima has "Paz" turn up again, is to remind Big Boss of the pain he holds from the events of Ground Zeroes. To remind the audience as well, its like opening up a wound and keeping it infected. We have seen the text "Ghosts from Ground Zeroes" displayed in one of the trailers. Do you remember in one of the cassette tapes Skull Face talking about what his people (who died in the weapons factory bombing) would want? Its like that, its all about the theme. The psychological scar tissue formed by loss, is one of the things that drive people to seek revenge. Big Boss smeared the ashes of the dead on his face, he wants to make diamonds of their ashes so they will always be with him. Would the memory of Paz not also be included in this keeping the dead with him? He has pieces of Paz's bone matter lodged within him as shrapnel from the explosion. I didn't make that up, it was said by the previewers who have actually played the game. This is a series that has had clones from the beginning, and we know for a fact Big Boss is going to be fairly regularly experiencing hallucinations. I don't know the exact explanation for "Paz" being seen in the trailer, but I don't need to in order to know that the real/original Paz died in Ground Zeroes. And that this new "Paz" is not sufficient reason at all to think the events of Ground Zeroes didn't happen. What point would saying "oh the events of Ground Zeroes didn't really happen, or they happened differently" serve at all? None. But we can partially explain the function from a thematic point of view, of why the "ghost" of Paz shows up. Edited by abstract-one, Jun 25 2015, 12:33:42 PM.
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| Trigsby | Jun 25 2015, 01:04:45 PM Post #22 |
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Don't fight it.
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The way Skully appears in the trailer made people think he was in Snake's head, and one thing lead to another. |
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| ZhasCOME2 | Jun 25 2015, 01:30:15 PM Post #23 |
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Light Infantry
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Actually I disagree. The theme of revenge still works especially if you watch Python selkans new video which I posted this before it came out but they think the same thing I do and not only that they pointed out a lot of very interesting things such as big boss being Skitzo with the actual medicine for this disorder being shown in the new trailer. My mother had this disorder so this hits home for me. They also pointed out that big boss could be hallucinating Skullface and Ishmael which goes along with another theory I posted prior to them that big boss is Skullface. Or rather a split personality of big boss. Hence the fox vs Xof. The newest analysis makes me want to play this game so bad and if anyone says different I don't see how they could. But my point is maybe ground zeroes happened but not how we think. I think that big boss somehow was responsible for killing his own men so this just makes the whole revenge theme even cooler because big boss is after himself. Obviously this means big boss made it look like cypher was behind everything and kaz doesn't know this. This would also make revisiting camp omega necessary. And a couple things to add to the theory, why does Chico seem so afraid of big boss when he firsts gets rescued? And to add to the Skullface is a spilt personality of big boss theory, Skullface used a line big boss uses in one of those interrogation clips. Also Skullface says your boss and I go way back. And the pyhtonselkan video points out the lines that appear to be talking about how Skullfaces identity was taken away from him as a kid or rather that big boss' identity was stolen from him as a kid. The abandoned child. So could this mean big boss father abandoned him and maybe big boss repeats history because of this he abandons liquid and solid. So it's possible that Skullface and big boss go way back being that they are the same person. The catch is that Skullface doesn't actually exist, only in big bosses mind so it's not literal obviously. I don't have time to think everything through but I will say I can't wait to see yong yeas video about Moby Dick connections to mgsv. I think this could tie everything in Edited by ZhasCOME2, Jun 25 2015, 01:49:30 PM.
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| Kooms | Jun 25 2015, 01:35:46 PM Post #24 |
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Solid Baguette
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The GZ events certainly happened, it might not have happened the way we think though. And Maybe TPP will slowly show us what really happened, as certain people here think. Do not believe that much in a way or an other, but maybe this is what " never happened in video games before". You played a game for one year and after playing its sequel you'll never see it the way you did before. One question though, some of you stated in different thread that GZ is like P.T. Could please explain it to those who did not play it
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| Trigsby | Jun 25 2015, 01:59:31 PM Post #25 |
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Don't fight it.
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Sorry I just can't. |
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| abstract-one | Jun 25 2015, 02:10:38 PM Post #26 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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From what I have observed, most people, especially people like Python Selkan, come up with theories like this: 1. They look at a few things in the trailers pretty much in isolation of any other information. Its much easier to create a theory based on one or two scenes, then it is to create a theory based on pretty much every detail of the story we have. 2. They imagine "what would be a cool, crazy, over the top plot twist". 3. Voila there is the newest theory. Paz was seen in the newest TPP trailer? Must mean Ground Zeroes didn't happen. Woah that would be a crazy plot twist!!! 4. Having come up with this, they then rationalize some awkward way in which this theory can be aligned with the theme of the game when someone questions them about it. You can tell that the question of theme wasn't even on their mind though, despite the fact that the trailers, Kojima interviews, etc. show that MGSV is a very very theme centered game. These theories are always connected to the theme in an awkward and flimsy way at best, compared to the more grounded interpretations of what is going on which actually take into account more information. Thus comment's like Trigsby's above, because people reasonably don't want to go to the effort of explaining just how far off theories like these are. Edited by abstract-one, Jun 25 2015, 02:19:35 PM.
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| ZhasCOME2 | Jun 25 2015, 02:28:26 PM Post #27 |
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Light Infantry
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I'll admit that Although I enjoy watching Python selkans videos that the grey fox thing is pushing. But the newest video is different. It's an entire analysis of the newest trailer not just a few scenes and the new theory combines everything we know. Abstract I enjoyed your YouTube videos and I've actually been looking forward to a new one but it seems you just want to stick to your guns and shoot down every other theory. It seems you are more angry that this theory contradicts everything your theory is about. No need to be angry, it's just a theory. I originally thought your theories were spot on but Pythonselkans newest video is really cool and they show a lot of proof. Kojimas trailers feature hand picked visuals and choicely wording that they connect the dots with the newest theory. And to those who simply ignore it, that's fine. I enjoyed trying to figure out what will happen. Maybe you don't care to figure it out until you play. And also to be fair, I shouldn't have titled this Ground Zeroes didn't happen?... Instead I should have said did the events in GZ actually happened the way it played out? Because if you read my theories and watch that video, I don't think so anymore. And it's not just because Paz. It's a combination of everything we've seen and know. Edited by ZhasCOME2, Jun 25 2015, 02:33:25 PM.
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| Genome44 | Jun 25 2015, 02:29:59 PM Post #28 |
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Wasn't Python the guy that predicted BB would make an appearance in MGS4? |
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| black king | Jun 25 2015, 02:44:43 PM Post #29 |
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...Burger King?
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Him and two-thirds of the fanbase. The debate was flashbacks or in 2014. Then the screenshot got leaked and the one third who said he wouldn't picked another camp. |
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| abstract-one | Jun 25 2015, 02:48:59 PM Post #30 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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Ouch. I'm not angry about anything just expressing my opinion. Just because I've done youtubes before does not mean you have to isolate me as being angry. I don't think I have had anything critical to say about Yong Yea's analysis videos in the past for instance. As for my previous theories you are referring to, I dropped the bulk of them once I played Ground Zeroes. But if you say python selkan's newest video is different from their previous ones then I will check it out. Edited by abstract-one, Jun 25 2015, 02:50:10 PM.
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| Jim Houseman | Jun 25 2015, 02:49:27 PM Post #31 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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I've read that but haven't seen evidence of it, it's hardly an original thought anyway. look at some posts from 2005: http://mgsforums.com/topic/276154/1/ |
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| ZhasCOME2 | Jun 25 2015, 02:59:39 PM Post #32 |
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Light Infantry
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Well you basically called me stupid lol but like I said I titled this incorrectly. I do think that the events of GZ happened, but because I feel strongly about big boss having split personalities and Skullface and Ishmael being atleast 2 of them. But yes definitely watch the new video. Ignore the few connections to grey fox if you want, but look close at the split personality evidence they point out. |
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| abstract-one | Jun 25 2015, 03:02:42 PM Post #33 |
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Hi-Tech Soldier
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I realize I was sounding elitist and dismissive without having watched the video you were talking about. I apologize for that. I'll watch it later today. Edited by abstract-one, Jun 25 2015, 03:03:12 PM.
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| ZhasCOME2 | Jun 25 2015, 04:28:02 PM Post #34 |
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No problem. Yeah your analysis on Ishmael being a hallucination was spot on. After you watch the video, I'd like to see see what you think if you factor in big boss being mentally ill with split personalities or creating personalities such as Skullface and his character not being real. |
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| 00steven | Jun 25 2015, 05:00:10 PM Post #35 |
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Jail Guard
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Yeah you really know... Frankly it's foolish for anyone to definitively state that something is for sure regarding The Phantom Pain. It's Kojima everybody! Edited by 00steven, Jun 25 2015, 05:01:37 PM.
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| ZhasCOME2 | Jun 25 2015, 05:35:46 PM Post #36 |
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Light Infantry
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Yea but also the way I named this topic gives the wrong impression. GZ happened, but if Skullface is a hallucination than what really happened? If Skullface is a split personality of big boss, then how did he destroy motherbase while being at camp omega? |
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| Xenocide | Jun 25 2015, 05:42:18 PM Post #37 |
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Light Infantry
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Not that I'm pushing for any theory, but in a dream right before you die; you wake up. Abruptly. Just as Ground Zeros ends right before Morpho smacks into that XOF chopper. |
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| CIA | Jun 25 2015, 05:58:06 PM Post #38 |
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He's also the guy that alludes to chico being psycho mantis and Johnny sasaki being Gray Fox. |
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| Genome44 | Jun 25 2015, 09:28:45 PM Post #39 |
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I'm surprised this was going on as far back as 2005. I used to not roam any fora back then because I didn't own a PS2 (to play MGS3) and tried to avoid as much spoilers of the game as I could. How come so many people already had a clue? Trailer? Edited by Genome44, Jun 25 2015, 09:29:24 PM.
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| The Doctor | Jun 26 2015, 01:12:04 AM Post #40 |
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Welcome to Outer Heaven
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I am starting to think Paz is a hallucination. There is no way in hell Paz can be brought back from the dead. We all saw it, she went Cobra on us all. Unless that Paz was a body double, I can only think of Hallucination. Ground Zeroes did happen otherwise we'd be speculating what caused Big Boss to fall in his coma, what became of Chico, etc. |
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