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| Death Stranding General Discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 14 2016, 03:26:51 AM (30,279 Views) | |
| Rogue Agent | Jun 14 2016, 03:26:51 AM Post #1 |
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Occasional News Bot
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Stars Norman Reedus. It's basically a video announcing the title of the game - there's nothing much yet. No gameplay yet.![]() Edited by Rogue Agent, Jun 14 2016, 02:16:52 PM.
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Most Helpful Member award I <3 TOKUGAWA HEAVY INDUSTRIES - credit goes to Tollhouse and Snake Eater
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| Ludens | Jun 20 2016, 01:12:33 AM Post #181 |
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I honestly don't get why people think Kojima's writing is bad. I really don't. I've watched many movies and played many games and I have pretty high standards myself, but I just don't see how MGS games have bad, weak or "B movie standard" stories. I've yet to see a logical explanation for this claim. not a single credible reviewer ever claimed that for any of MGS games, though some criticized TPP's story for being sparse and not fleshed enough, and that's a fact but not a single one said that "the story is shit" or nonsense like that. it's only coming from players, and not from a single credible critic or reviewer. several big names in movies and video game industry made comments about the stories of MGS games and they're all positive. In fact, MGS games are among the very few games that "wowed" me from a story standpoint. if people have different standards and views about the stories of MGS and Kojima's writing, it's perfectly fine but claiming that their opinions are 100% proven objective facts is wrong. and this is a death stranding thread, not a Kojima bashing thread so don't derail the topic please. |
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| The Departed | Jun 20 2016, 01:18:56 AM Post #182 |
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Your friendly neighborhood truck
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it's more the actual dialogue can be genuinely shitty, and the plots sometimes incomprehensible. liquid arm ghost, ladies and gents. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| Ludens | Jun 20 2016, 01:24:26 AM Post #183 |
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That's valid criticism, and since you're in the filed of voice acting, your complaints definitely hold value. that transplanted arm bullshit is really out of place and it's also acknowledged by Kojima himself as a bad choice. every big franchise will suffer from inconsistencies, especially when stretched for 30 years. even greatest masterpieces in the movie industry sometimes suffer from them. it's true that the stories are sometimes incomprehensible, but not for the most part. but are these really enough to call the story "shitty"? thought provoking, thematically driven political stories are called "B movie standard standard" stories all because of that? I don't get it
Edited by Ludens, Jun 20 2016, 01:28:41 AM.
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| The Departed | Jun 20 2016, 01:28:13 AM Post #184 |
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Your friendly neighborhood truck
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no mgs story is shitty, not even mgs2, but no mgs story is really thought provoking either. the themes each one tried to explore are, but the plots themselves are b list action because they're all about stopping flamboyant, theatric terrorists from launching nukes. like, when you summarize the point a plot, not one of then is really amazing. it's more the characters and sometimes the motivations, but those don't always come across the main game seamlessly. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| Ludens | Jun 20 2016, 01:34:44 AM Post #185 |
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Of course the surface plot is rather cliche (it's mostly about MGS1 and 2 and surprisingly, it's not in TPP's case), but doesn't something deeper lie beneath that? for example, the whole information control and censorship is a very interesting concept that hasn't been explored or handled properly in videogames, themes like this are the strongest point of Kojima's stories. the "stop the terrorists" plots serve as the background for something deeper, and that's what impresses people. and it's not only the characters and their motivations, the presentation also plays a huge role in this. a game's story shouldn't be judged on its narrative only, all of these factors should be considered when judging a game's story, you know it better than me. and we can be sure that Kojima's new game will have a very different story, and this time he brought up a well-received writer with himself so no big worries this time. Oh Keiv, I PMed you about my username change request, haven't you read it yet? Edited by Ludens, Jun 20 2016, 01:54:34 AM.
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| The Baneposter | Jun 20 2016, 02:31:16 AM Post #186 |
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Only me
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Reviewers enjoy MGS as a story because of its cliche campiness. Infact several critics and journalists, pre release voiced concerns about a campy game tackling serious issues, like GameSpot and the Washington Post talked sbout it in their review of MGS V. That and those critics and journalists you're talking about are the same ones you were shit talking during the awards season so i'm surprised you brought that up in the first place. Also Departed MGS2's surface plot is absolutely fucking awful. Cant believe im the one telling you that. |
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| The Departed | Jun 20 2016, 02:43:12 AM Post #187 |
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max-bayne mgs2's surface plot featured an obese man on rollerblades drinking wine out of a bendy straw. that alone makes it at least slightly okay. and i say that as a man who hates mgs2 with the same passion a certain someone has for their animes. also, i just received your pm. check your username, dawg. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| The Baneposter | Jun 20 2016, 02:45:40 AM Post #188 |
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Only me
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That makes it the best B movie ever made. Bit not a well written or even adequate story. MGS2 shines bright elsewhere, much like the rest of the series |
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| The Departed | Jun 20 2016, 02:48:15 AM Post #189 |
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max-bayne we're actually in agreement there, dawg. i don't think highly of mgs2, but at the same time, i also know what a genuinely shitty and incomprehensible plotline is. mgs2 is a game i don't like, and i think it's story is downright stupid. ...blops3 is a game i had to force myself to play, and its' story genuinely made no sense, and that only got worse and worse with each passing slog of a mission. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| Ludens | Jun 20 2016, 06:03:15 AM Post #190 |
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I love ya Keiv, thanks man Max Bayne That's not true. in fact, it's the themes and meta narrative of the games that catches people's attentions, not the cliche campiness. I've fully read gamespot's review and haven't stumbled upon anything like that, and don't forget Washington post is the one that gave uncharted 4 a very low score ( I think it was a 4 out of 10 which is hilarious, I haven't finished it yet, but sure as hell it's nowhere near a 4). they're not a gaming outlet to begin with, they're far from a credible reviewer. I never shit talked about any reviewers, I just said the awards shows have zero credibility, not any of the reviews. just look at the history of the GOTY awards and see what I mean. don't bring up this argument please since it won't go anywhere. MGS1 and 2 are only about stopping terrorist, and it makes sense storywise since the big shell incident is supposed to be a simulation of shadow moses incident. the original game plan for MGS2 sounded different, but was censored because it was "too controversial" and we have our friends at Konami to thank for that. still, these complaints don't hold much water tbh, maybe it's because of having different tastes? I dunno. Edited by Ludens, Jun 20 2016, 06:03:48 AM.
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| The Baneposter | Jun 20 2016, 06:23:46 AM Post #191 |
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Pre release, not post release. I expect GS shilled out on their review but w/e not my topic, and the MGS V review was pretty spot on. Despite not being a gaming only publication and despite that god awful UC4 review, doesn't mean all their reviewers are the same. You give the fanbase too much credit. I'd wager most still dont give a flying fuck about MGS2s meta or even acknowledge its existence, considering the piss poor reaction it still gets. Most genuinnly see the surface plot and think that's all there is to it, doesn't help that moat of the fandom also thinks MGS is better than cinema lmao Who do you think gives rewards? The occassional show or event, but its mostly reviewers and publications of that ilk. And even those shows have reviewers on their panels deciding who wins what. Its not about the terrorist premise. MGS2 could have had tge fucking trade towers being blown up it'd still be an awfully written story that no Hollywood producer in their right fucking mind would pick up. All's in the execution and as you said, 2's appeal isnt in its surface anyways. |
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| Ludens | Jun 20 2016, 06:55:54 AM Post #192 |
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Didn't know about that. but the thing is, post release is what matters, and Gamespot's post release review does not criticize the story of TPP. IGN had few complaints about the story being unnecessarily spaced out a little too much, and not fleshed out properly, and that's valid. not a single reviewer claims Kojima's writing is bad, it's all coming from players. it's not only UC4 that they gave a ridiculous score to, they did it to many other games before. I just brought UC4 since it's a recent case. Washington post isn't a credible reviewer among the gaming outlets, that's a fact. Lol I give the fanbase zero credit (no offense to anyone), the fanbase views TPP as the worst MGS game ever, and some fans give it 3/10, it's just their opinion and does not prove anything. the themes are the highlight of the the games in the eyes of the reviewers, not the players. The main factor that decides the winner in the awards shows is popularity, not quality. not quality at all. throughout these years, lot and lots of games won GOTY awards while they didn't deserve it. and if we're talking about the "who should win" topics by the reviewers of IGN and gamespot, 70% of them voted TPP as their GOTY. there are reviewers who decide which game wins, but what they choose does not reflect the opinions of the majority of reviewers, as I said before, popularity plays a much bigger role in determining the winner than quality. before you get offended, I have to clarify that 'm not talking about TW3 in particular, but the awards shows as a whole. The terrorist takeover thing was brought up by Departed, and I only brought it up because of that. what I'm saying is that the story is awful in your eyes, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's actually awful. since almost no critic, no one with a proper knowledge on reviewing games has ever claimed that and the fact that all of these complaints are coming from fans proves that it's just a matter of personal preference and not an objective fact. Edited by Ludens, Jun 20 2016, 09:04:18 PM.
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| Octavious Wrex | Jun 20 2016, 07:16:37 AM Post #193 |
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The man, the myth, the Monster
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Man, I hope his teaser has nothing to do with Konami. I know everybody wants to stick it to Konami, but it would be pretty petty and unprofessional to devote resources and time to make a secret message about your former employers. Not to mention, Kojima works for Konami for how long? He should just move on and wish them well, because no matter how badly it may have ended he had a lot of great years working with them, and it's the adult thing to do. The teaser should be there to let fans know what to expect from a game, because hype shouldn't be built on mystery. That's a sure way to make sure you have a lot of disappointed fans. |
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Spoiler: click to toggle ![]() Compromise where you can. Where you can't, don't. Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right. Even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye, and say 'No, you move'. | |
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| The Departed | Jun 20 2016, 07:32:19 AM Post #194 |
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nah, thematically, kojima was going on about connectivity being a big theme. he said some crap about the crabs but i don't remember. all i know is that norman reedus better be naked for at least 25% of the game... ...and that invisible baby better be my mk2. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| Ludens | Jun 20 2016, 09:50:31 AM Post #195 |
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The teaser's main purpose is to tease the game obviously, and as Kojima said, the world and the character will appear in the main game like how they did in the teaser. but since the teaser is full of metaphors and symbolism, it's not really a stretch. in addition to teasing the game and conveying themes that no one's been able to discover yet, he just wanted to show how he's lost his legacy, disrespected and left with nothing (norman being naked is probably reflecting that) and how he's going to start over. for his appearance, I expected him to wear Luden's EVA suit at some point since the eyes were a 100% match, but now that we know the game and Ludens aren't related, I expect him to wear modern, futuristic military fatigues or something like that. if not, he should at least wear underwear instead of running around naked. dat ass will distract the players for sure I think the next teaser won't be as mysterious as this one, and it better not be. having a little more info on the game's world and plot would be nice, and I guess TGS is our next stop. I've read on Keighley's Twitter that Kojima will be present at this year's game awards, maybe he'll share some info and/or a trailer there as well. Edited by Ludens, Jun 20 2016, 10:00:32 AM.
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| Octavious Wrex | Jun 20 2016, 12:04:13 PM Post #196 |
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Seriously, if you play the whole game as naked Norman Reedus I will buy a ps4 just for this game! Especially if he uses a baby on a rope as a weapon! Greatest Game Ever! |
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Spoiler: click to toggle ![]() Compromise where you can. Where you can't, don't. Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right. Even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye, and say 'No, you move'. | |
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| NateDog | Jun 20 2016, 12:37:39 PM Post #197 |
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I'd be extremely surprised to see the game appear again within the next year. This was just a teaser and at that a teaser for a game that has barely begun development (I suppose defining "beginning development" is a trivial term to use as many people may umsay different things classify a game as having started development but they haven't chosen an engine yet and this teaser seems to have been made solely to announce the game and not to actually show off anything or signify it is past the beginning point). |
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| Ludens | Jun 20 2016, 04:22:35 PM Post #198 |
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That's right. Kojima said the game hasn't entered production stage yet, but what we saw was running on one of the engines they're considering working on in real time. he said once they choose the engine, the game will enter production. right now, they're doing tests on the engines to see what's possible and what's not, and I've read somewhere that they're even testing the gameplay. to be honest, I never expected them to reveal a non-CGI trailer this early, their progress is really amazing. TGS is a good opportunity for more info and a nice trailer, and I think Kojima will finally make his mind and choose the engine (i hope he uses the one we all saw) and the game will enter the production stage soon hopefully. |
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| The Baneposter | Jun 20 2016, 05:27:19 PM Post #199 |
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Ludens [thank fuck for that name change] how does a group of reviewers agreeing on something bring it from subjective to objective? AlsonWashington Times is the one im talking about, not NY times. At the end of the day people who qualify as critics are deciding on awards. Not every critic shared the same opinion but in the end theyre cut from the same cloth. Cant exactly shit on one without the other, because they all carry the same qualifications. No idea what who would win topics are being referred to here. I know there are User Choice Award alongside critic awards but critics dont make threads and vote in them from my knowledge Reviewers shat on MGS2 story on release, the most theme intensive MGS game. To some reviewers, like that one french dude they "get it" but id wager most still take the surface seriously. Heck for the most part critics dont even focus on the story. Its mostly the presentation and gameplay. Edited by The Baneposter, Jun 21 2016, 06:14:51 AM.
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| The Departed | Jun 20 2016, 05:57:47 PM Post #200 |
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the surface plot of anything is what is going to be driving any given experience. if it is flimsy and messy, that's a genuine problem, and part of what turned so many off from mgs2. even 15 years later, those people who are suddenly head over heels are only that way because they really like the thematic nature of the game and its "meta narrative." certainly not for its actual surface plot, which still remains a mess even if one gets the point. that's my biggest concern for death stranding. i want it to tell a good story, not be an incomprehensible mess of a story with various themes. if kojima is already talking about connectivity being a big theme for the game, then that should be the central theme, not one of fifty different themes all thinly spread like toast on severely burn butter...give or take a swap somewhere in that sentence. |
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