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| Death Stranding General Discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 14 2016, 03:26:51 AM (30,263 Views) | |
| Rogue Agent | Jun 14 2016, 03:26:51 AM Post #1 |
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Occasional News Bot
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Stars Norman Reedus. It's basically a video announcing the title of the game - there's nothing much yet. No gameplay yet.![]() Edited by Rogue Agent, Jun 14 2016, 02:16:52 PM.
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Most Helpful Member award I <3 TOKUGAWA HEAVY INDUSTRIES - credit goes to Tollhouse and Snake Eater
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| Ludens | Dec 18 2016, 03:52:04 PM Post #501 |
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I'll keep coming
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I can only see Norman beneath the mask and it's not even remotely close to Kojima's face, I think he's either lying or they've changed the model of his face so much that he no longer looks like him. or maybe they mixed their facial features and what we're seeing is a fusion of Norman and Kojima's faces, doesn't make any sense to do so though. Speaking of Ludens' possible relation to the game, I saw YongYea mention something interesting. there's a marking on Ludens' shoulder pads reading "Bridges" and that name is also carved on Del Toro's pin badge, possibly the name of an organization. the name might be coming from Einstein Rosen bridges, wormholes in other words. the space suit and the connections to space might play a role here, but it's just a thought and may end up wrong. Edited by Ludens, Dec 18 2016, 05:21:11 PM.
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| Octavious Wrex | Dec 19 2016, 01:24:27 PM Post #502 |
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The man, the myth, the Monster
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I don't think think that I know more than the people developing the game at all, I just think what they're saying is not what most consumers think they are saying by "in engine" and "real time". They are using the same engine that the game will be on, but they haven't developed their game in that engine at all. That means that you're seeing art assets, in a completely controlled environment. The biggest tax on game play and FPS is when you suddenly change your POV and the engine has to render all that stuff to the side you weren't looking at before but are now. It's widespread in the industry, and time after time these real time in engine trailers don't represent the game at all. That doesn't mean that the game won't look good, just that if you are expecting this game to look like these trailers on a PS 4 then I think you have disappointment in your forcast. Just the fact that they can't show us game footage proves that this isn't the game running on real time in the engine, which is what matters. Making a trailer with the same engine and then running that trailer in real time isn't a fair representation of the game that will eventually be built on that engine. |
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Spoiler: click to toggle ![]() Compromise where you can. Where you can't, don't. Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right. Even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye, and say 'No, you move'. | |
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| Ludens | Dec 19 2016, 02:34:35 PM Post #503 |
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I'll keep coming
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Like I said, the terms "in engine" and "real time" have a pretty clear meaning among gamers and it can't be used as a means to mislead people. ever since the first trailer (which was done in a different engine) came out, Kojima made it clear that it was in-game graphics and that the cutscene would transition to gameplay seamlessly. even in the early build that was the E3 trailer, after seamless transition from cutscene to gameplay the camera could be controlled freely and Norman's character could've been controlled as well to walk and run on the beach. I'm not talking out of my ass, it's what the game's creator said. according to both Kojima and Cerny, everything they showed was running on PS4's hardware in real time, meaning it's all being rendered by the system's hardware like in actual gameplay. I honestly see no need in explaining it any further as the developers already did, you're free to believe it or not. That's not the case even in games like Watch Dogs 1 and The Division which were massively downgraded from their trailers. the trailers did represent the overall look of the games, even though they were gimped by release. and let's not go too far, the trailers of all MGS game were said to be real time and in-engine and they all represented the final products with only minor changes. Kojima always showed in-game graphics for advertising his games, there's absolutely no need for him to deviate from the pattern especially for his first independent project that would be doomed to failure if it doesn't live up to the expectations according to himself. it's a critical point for his newly formed company and he's fully aware of the fact and by misleading and false advertising, he isn't going to get anywhere. Not really. models seen in the new DS trailer are extremely detailed but there are already games on PS4 that are as detailed as the recent trailer, including UC4, BF1 and Star Wars Battlefront, and the latter two run at a stable 60FPS even with that level of detail. it's the lighting in DS that makes it stand out, and according to Kojima, lighting is where his team excels at. they're putting their experience from their past games and the new trailer was the result of that. he said one of the main points of the new trailer was to showcase the game's graphics, and also the capabilities of the engine and the console. it's one of the goals of the trailer, showing something that doesn't reflect the final product totally defeats the point. It doesn't prove anything. they surely can show gameplay footage as they were working on gameplay long before the first trailer was released, they're not ready just yet. Star Wars Battlefront was shown without any gameplay footage initially but what they showed was said to be representative of the actual in-game graphics and many people refused to believe it because of how good it looked, even some media outlets posted articles about why the final game couldn't look like that. in the end, with the release of newer gameplay demos and the game itself, they were all proven wrong. now that Kojima's working with a giant company and its subdivision Guerilla games (that made truly amazing looking games in the past) and has the architect of the PS4 as their technical director, it's totally possible that the final game would look like the trailers. That's not true. they're not just running the trailer in real time, the trailer is part of the game as they confirmed. it's running on a PS4 pro in real time, there's a whole world of difference between running it in real time and running it on the hardware in real time. the game won't be eventually built on the engine, its production has already started and they've been capturing the actor's performance, real objects like rocks, fish and crabs and modelling them in their engine. again, it's what they're saying, not my words. these assets are not made specifically for the trailers, it's even a logically dumb move to bother to capture facial and performance data and real life objects just for the sake of a trailer while they could've easily licensed a third party to create a pre-rendered trailer for them like many other games do. Edited by Ludens, Dec 19 2016, 07:20:25 PM.
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| Octavious Wrex | Dec 20 2016, 05:38:48 AM Post #504 |
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The man, the myth, the Monster
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How were they workin on gameplay long before he first trailer was released if they didn't have an engine? I think you're taking this personally for some reason, because you keep saying things like "do you think you know more than the developers" and " I'm not talking out of my ass here", when I never said or implied either if those things. Do you really think that Battlefronts looks as good as the trailer we're seeing here or even saw with the in engine trailer for Battlefronts? I wholeheartedly disagree with you on that statement. It's fine that you don't mind when games get downgraded or even show up in a massively different form than is shown, but do you really think that there is nothing wrong with the practice of showing footage that you know very likely won't be representative of the final product? |
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Spoiler: click to toggle ![]() Compromise where you can. Where you can't, don't. Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right. Even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye, and say 'No, you move'. | |
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| Ludens | Dec 20 2016, 09:39:43 AM Post #505 |
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I'll keep coming
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They had two engine candidates back then, the Sucker Punch engine and Guerilla's engine now known as Decima. one of them was being used for the E3 trailer and modeling objects and landscape and the other was being used for gameplay tests. in the end, Decima was chosen because of its characteristics that suited Kojipro's way of working and its capabilities for creating open world games. No man, this isn't anything personal in all honesty. the way you talk about how you think it's pre-rendered and how confident you sound when you say the final game won't look this good while the guys developing the game are saying otherwise makes me wonder if you truly think you know more than the devs. the bit about not talking out of my ass was just to make it clear that I'm not making it up, it's just what the creator of the game and its technical director are saying. anyway, I apologize if I sounded rude or made it look like I've taken it personal. It looks absolutely amazing and while it doesn't look as realistic as the new DS trailer, the models are as detailed. the lighting in the new DS trailer is what makes it look better than Battlefront, not the models. PS4 has already proved that it's more than capable of running extremely detailed games like UC4 and Battlefiled1 and these games aren't really far from the new DS trailer when it comes to character and environmental models. it's just the lighting in DS that makes it look so good and while the polygon count of the models are pretty high, nothing other the lighting in the trailer is extraordinary and it's not something that a PS4 couldn't run properly. I do mind when games are downgraded, but it was never the case in Kojima's previous works. MGS4 looked slightly different from its trailers and it was in a good way, with a much better filter and more detailed character models than in the trailers. MGSV did suffer from a slight downgrade from the trailers and according to Julien Merceron who was the technical director for that game, it was because of the limitations the last gen systems imposed on the team. in the end it wasn't a big difference at all, and the final game more or less looked like its trailers. I do think there's a lot wrong with the practice, but this isn't the case here like I said as it never was with any of the MGS games. Kojima always made the exact same statements about the trailers of his previous games, that they all ran in real time and were rendered in-engine, and every single one of the final games looked like their respective trailers. Kojima never made a trailer separate from the in-game scenes for MGS games, and even said that he doesn't believe in advertising his games with pre-rendered trailers numerous times during these last few years when he was advertising MGSV, so why would he perform a 180 degrees turn for what's said to be his best and biggest work? and if it turns out to be a lie, not only it will ruin Kojima's reputation, but also Sony's, Cerny's and Guerilla games'. if he fucks it up, it's not my loss, it's his only his failure. And keep in mind that we'll certainly be seeing gameplay demos down the road, it's not like they're keeping us in the dark and misleading us with trailers that don't represent the final game until the game's released. whether the game looks as good as the trailers or not will be made clear when the first gameplay demo surfaces, and all this "pre-rendered" or "trailers not representing the game" talk will be totally debunked, even though they already are by the developers themselves. since gameplay trailers are coming before release, people can have a clear look at the game's visuals before it comes out and no one would be disappointed or surprised if by the smallest chance it turns out to look way too different from the trailers. Edited by Ludens, Dec 20 2016, 01:06:56 PM.
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| Octavious Wrex | Dec 21 2016, 03:02:35 AM Post #506 |
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The man, the myth, the Monster
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I would actuall say that almost every MG game got either a downgrade or a significant change from early trailers to game. Look as MGS3s lush jungles, or the increadable lighting and effects from MGS 2s trailer. MGS4 changed drastically, and while some find it to look better others don't agree. You yourself even said MGSV was downgraded, but not enough to count. I still don't begin to understand how you think me saying that the developers aren't being completely honest is me saying I know more about their game than them. Kojima has lied to consumers for years. I get that he's kinda a golden cow around here, but how he is being portrayed as a paragon of honesty is just beyond me. The gaming industry is the most anti consumer industry that depends on its consumer, Kojima isn't above and beyond that either. How many things did he say would be in MGSV that didn't make it into the game? It's fine to be a fan, but it's also doesn't hurt to be at least a little cynical. |
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Spoiler: click to toggle ![]() Compromise where you can. Where you can't, don't. Even if everyone is telling you that something wrong is something right. Even if the whole world is telling you to move, it is your duty to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eye, and say 'No, you move'. | |
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| The Departed | Dec 21 2016, 04:12:19 AM Post #507 |
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Your friendly neighborhood truck
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i have no doubts that deer stains will look amazing, but i absolutely expect some downgrade by then. it's simply the way things have been with kojima and considering dead steaks is; for all we know, 2 or so years out from release, that's a fair guess. because if the gameplay isn't cemented yet, then odds are, we're gonna be looking at a lot of experimentation and test shots before they settle on something final. after all, look at the very first screenshots of mgsv from 2011 the only thing concrete, thus far, are four character characters; reedus, del torro, maddy mads, and his hardcore skulls. how many tanks with guts we see roaming around after the fact is subject to change. as is the way the game might end up looking to accommodate the way it plays. the assets are created and they look fantastic. but it stems to reason that they exist currently, as they do, to demonstrate the full capacity of the engine. i'd need to see the actual gameplay, and what it's like to have any estimate as to how it'll look when it's applied to an actual interactive setting. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| Ludens | Dec 21 2016, 11:34:10 AM Post #508 |
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I'll keep coming
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I'm tired of repeating myself and it's pretty obvious that this discussion won't go anywhere, Wrex. anyway I totally expect the game to look more or less like the trailers not because I see Kojima as golden cow or a god or shit like that, but because I just trust his and more importantly Cerny's words when it comes to graphical and technical subjects. Kojima lied to consumers more than I can count, but never ever he lied about technical specs of his games or their graphical fidelity, neither he showed pre-rendered cutscenes in place of in-game footage. if I'm being honest, I don't see any downgrades to MGS1-3 from their trailers, and in MGS4's case, the final game looked much better than it did in trailers. TPP was slightly downgraded and there was a reason for it, even though it was completely unacceptable. unlike TPP, it's not being made for last gen systems and won't be held back by the limitations they impose for the devs, it's being developed with PS4's hardware in mind, and under the direction of the system's architect, they can utilize the system's full potential to make something jaw dropping. MGS games mostly were ahead of their time graphically, and Kojima and the team are trying to make DS a game ahead of its time graphics-wise. their words again, not mine. Death Stranding's look may very well change by the time it's released and it's totally expected like the Departed said. downgrades are expected, but it won't be a drastic change that would let us to disappointment like it never was the case in any of the MGS games. besides, since gameplay trailers will come some day, we'll have an in-depth look at the game's visuals before it comes and if it's downgraded from the trailers anyone would notice it. that way no one would ever be surprised if the final game turns out downgraded. to summarize, I expect the game to look roughly the same as the new trailer. it might be downgraded, and if it is, it won't be anything huge at all that would disappoint us. Edited by Ludens, Dec 21 2016, 02:13:55 PM.
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| trimegadon | Dec 21 2016, 12:36:42 PM Post #509 |
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all out.
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This discussion for possible downgrade on the graphics of the trailer is really pointless. The engine's capabilities are really looking great and something to look forward too. Nothing more nothing less. |
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| JJJ_ | Dec 21 2016, 01:21:38 PM Post #510 |
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There Is Only Darkness
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If the trailer is running on a PS4 Pro in real time, then why should one expect the cutscenes in the game to look any worse? It's not like the hardware has any other aspects of the game to run during cutscenes. |
I once wrote something in the shoutbox. This was the response.ZhasCOME2, on an MG and MG2 remake:
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| Edgelord | Dec 23 2016, 01:13:31 AM Post #511 |
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A nutjob without borders
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most likely pre rendered. the ps4pro doesnt run games anywhere near 4K. slightly under 2K at best. man i need moar from kojima. give me something else. dammit! |
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BEFORE THY BECOMES SALTY WITH THE TEARS OF BEING OFFENDED. BEHOLD THE FIELD IN WHICH I GROW MY FUCKS TO GIVE. LAY THINE EYES UPON IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BARREN | |
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| The Departed | Dec 23 2016, 02:23:07 AM Post #512 |
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Your friendly neighborhood truck
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so, let's not stand on ceremony here; kojima is a bad writer. there isn't a single well written mgs game, and i'm done singling any one game out anymore, because as much as people like to pretend mgsv is the black sheep of the family and that every story that came before was a heart felt passion project with soul to it, the reality is it's a family of black sheep. badly written black sheep, the whole lot, with zero emotional draw, and very little development worth two squirts of shit after a chipotle bender. some of which just happen to play better or worse than others, but black sheep all the same from start to finish. i keep saying that because kojima is all about telling, not showing, and all about exposition, even when it's not in codec form. and no good story comes from telling. no good story has ever been progressed almost exclusively through exposition. in fact, i'd bet my nuts six times over, kojima's never trained in actual proper storytelling in his life before. the auteur doesn't need to train if they already have the acclaim after all. and my concern is dead steaks is headed down the exact same path. because after the new trailer, we have full on confirmation that kojima's head of writing for this game, which means, odds are, there won't be someone to organize his plethora of ideas or someone to explain why certain ideas won't pan out properly, and might mesh well with some other ideas or themes. mad eye mikkelsen has already said, "when deaf standing was explaining to me, i didn't understand much of it." he straight up wanted to join because he wants to do mocap, and because he likes really weird shit, and if deaf streakers can be called anything after two things resembling trailers, it's weird. we also know there's rpg elements and a multiplayer component, very likely incorporated in the main game, possibly like that of division and or dark souls. so the question is, can kojima's weird, adhd style of writing be put to a setting that actually works? can he work within his limited abilities as a writer and make the most of it? because thus far, even in the games where he actually had a proper balance of gameplay and cutscene; mpo, pw and mgs3, the stories still had zero emotional depth, and still never gave you a real reason to give a shit. with the entire big boss story, what held it back was the boss, and snake having the charisma and personality of a sizzling snail. with snake, everything was way too short for any of it to matter. with raiden, well, no one was developed, least of all raiden, so fuck everything, just let me naked cartwheel for 20 minutes. and with kiefersnake, what held his story back was him seemingly not giving a shit and the game never really showing him giving a shit, so what reason do we have to give a shit? establish a character in; i'm guessing, reedus. give him a real dynamic with maddy mads instead of just having mads monologue at him. show him actually engaging as well as reacting to this crazy squid world of ropes. and have him be an active participant in the story's progression. establish all of this, and you have a reason to care about reedus' naked booty. if reedus isn't the main protagonist, and it's just some custom character or some division shit, then don't have their actions be predetermined. make that character a blank slate whom we can completely control, and who has actual undertale levels of influence on shit so that when they do shit, it actually shows and reflects on the world, giving that characters presence impact. trying to do both at once is what mgsv tried with kiefersnake, and part of why it didn't work. it's all about consolidation. you don't try to have your squid tank and eat it too like mgsv did. you don't try and do what mgs2 did and have all these different themes and ideas to explore. you don't do what mgs3, mpo and pw did by having an entire emotional point hinge on a relationship that was never developed to begin with. you don't do what mgs4 did and just go full self serious, self gratification, self felating bullshit that shows nothing but exposition. and finally, you just don't do what mgs1 did, by having a plot told at you, and having everything going over the course of hours, making everything so meaningless. the only way dead steaks' story doesn't suck ass, is if it's nothing like mgs. the only way this story becomes more than just "what the fuck am i watching / playing?" is if it's more than empty symbolism with a lot of visuals but zero context. show us a world, and show us the themes in play, but tie it all together in a plot that actually incorporates it all, and doesn't need to be completely spelled out at us in monologue or exposition form. if maddy mads barely talks, i'm more than okay with it. because i'd rather have a villain who acts, than one who talks, and talks, and talks, like literally every single mgs villain to date, my home boy, skullster included. and i'm not just saying that because mads' accent makes it a little difficult to fully understand what he's saying when he talks a lot. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| trimegadon | Dec 23 2016, 06:04:14 AM Post #513 |
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all out.
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It was confirmed at the game awards. GAMERANT_ds_runs_native4k_on_ps4pro |
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| Edgelord | Dec 24 2016, 12:40:41 AM Post #514 |
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A nutjob without borders
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it must be true if sony says it can. everyone who owns one and a hdr 4K television all have the same results. the ps4pro runs the resolution at 3840×2160. 4k is 4090. so the pro no matter what fanboys say, does NOT run at 4k. i know this is off topic but hey. plus dont believe a word that kyle sledge (the uneducated dimwit at gamerank (lol) says. Edited by Edgelord, Dec 24 2016, 12:42:00 AM.
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BEFORE THY BECOMES SALTY WITH THE TEARS OF BEING OFFENDED. BEHOLD THE FIELD IN WHICH I GROW MY FUCKS TO GIVE. LAY THINE EYES UPON IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BARREN | |
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| Ef9 o shea | Dec 24 2016, 01:09:55 AM Post #515 |
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Hadoken
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True 4k is 4096 x 2160 or 4096 x 2304 super fine The pro runs at 3840 x 2160 and is upscaled to that Upscaled is not natural or native rendering , having said that though it looks amazing and well beyond 1080p |
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| Zan Datsu | Dec 24 2016, 01:54:02 AM Post #516 |
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Get up & Go
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I'm tired of "open world" games with bad story progress including tons of sideops and the "freedom" approach. Grinding and over 100+ playtime feels like work to me. Also i don't like how the camera works in these games where the focus is on realism in terms of gameplay. A typical failure what most companies from europe and north america do is, putting the camera to close on the character in tps games. So i really hope DS don't follow this path mentioned above. I want a linear story game and gameplay, games meant to be played. I know kojima said it's open world but i really hope he change his mind and goes back to the roots against the trend which in my opinion is the most overrated "thing" in the video game industry. |
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| trimegadon | Dec 24 2016, 08:35:36 AM Post #517 |
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all out.
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Native or checkerboxed, it is still higher res than a base model build can handle. |
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| Edgelord | Dec 24 2016, 11:18:04 AM Post #518 |
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A nutjob without borders
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true dat!! i fully expect kojima to use every ounce of juice out from the ps4 for this. he usually does take graphics to a whole new level with his games, the only one not being mgsv as that was made for cross platform and last gen. |
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BEFORE THY BECOMES SALTY WITH THE TEARS OF BEING OFFENDED. BEHOLD THE FIELD IN WHICH I GROW MY FUCKS TO GIVE. LAY THINE EYES UPON IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BARREN | |
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| The Departed | Dec 24 2016, 07:57:30 PM Post #519 |
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Your friendly neighborhood truck
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he won't, because he feels one can do more with games in that setting than what once was. frankly, i don't care either way. kojima's writing has always been bad, and the stories have always been mediocre at best. no mgs game is well written or a pinnacle of either character development or storytelling. it's just fact at this point that no good story is told at you, and no good story progresses almost entirely through exposition. and seeing as the last trailer confirmed kojima is head of writing for deaf standing, i have zero reason to expect anything more from ds than anything else kojima has ever written. whatever hope i had hinged on him not being head of writing, but rather, being the idea man and leaving the actual writing to someone who knows how to write. seeing as that's not the case, there's no reason to expect competent writing from ds anymore, and i don't. literally, all i care about from ds, is if it's fun, and if it has a dynamic and fun core game to offer. if it will give me an experience in gaming no other game can offer. it doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. it just needs to do what it does very damn well, and put that to use in ways that at least feel distinct. if it can do that, then i'm sold. but i am not going into ds for its' story or for its' themes or any of that shit. having replayed the entire mgs series, i realize now, kojima's an inept writer, always has been, always will be, and that's perfectly fine imo. he doesn't need to be a good writer to make a good game, and that's all i can ask for here. as for graphics? yeah, not being limited to last gen should make this a knockout, and if it really is like horizon, then damn, it really will look killer. but it being a kojima game, i also expect some serious changes to the general look, once a gameplay format is decided upon. not necessarily a downgrade, but i don't expect things will still look exactly as they do now by the time we get to gameplay demos. that's just kojima's track record. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| Antii | Dec 24 2016, 08:06:06 PM Post #520 |
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Nerf herder.
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What turned you into a fan of the series? |
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5:39 PM Jul 13