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Why do most mgs fans hate Peace Walker?
Topic Started: Aug 29 2016, 06:30:04 PM (5,981 Views)
Mola Ram
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I've been lurking on this forum and on the neogaf forum, and I've been shocked at some of the outright loathing Peace Walker receives. I love the game, it's a really impressive achievement on the psp, and it's probably my favorite game on the psp (and I've played a lot of psp games). It was also my GOTY of 2010, when I first started playing the game it was like crack, I couldn't put it down.

Given the atrocious design of the PSP it's as perfect as a PSP game can be. Crazy deep and addictive single player campaign, what grinding tendencies it has is just buried under the depth of what it serves, actual encouragement to go outside to improve your lot via wifi over 100 side missions and packed full of secrets and easter eggs.

The co op has never given me a single problem and has always been great fun, the trading system is strict and fair and when all is said and done, deathmatch with your friend just for the lols. It's like the perfect Single-player handheld game and the perfect Multiplayer handheld game in one.

So again, why all the hate?
Edited by Mola Ram, Aug 29 2016, 07:01:22 PM.
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Silent Assassin
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Grinding, lack of proper bosses and Big Boss' crying about the Boss. Those are the main complaints about it.

I don't have big problems with the game. I enjoyed the MB building stuff and the story, though I wouldn't go with tech more advanced than that in later games.
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Mola Ram
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Aug 29 2016, 07:23:43 PM
Grinding, lack of proper bosses and Big Boss' crying about the Boss. Those are the main complaints about it.

I don't have big problems with the game. I enjoyed the MB building stuff and the story, though I wouldn't go with tech more advanced than that in later games.
Dare I say, but I actually liked some of the boss fights. Not the tank/helicopter battles, but I thought the AI battles were really fun and they felt grand in scale.

The peace walker boss fight is one of my favorite boss fights in the series. It's so damn epic.
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black king
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...Burger King?

I liked Portable Ops better. It had better and more interesting characters, no Boss whining, etc.

PW had some fun parts but it just had some parts that were really tedious.

edit: Welcome btw :) Hope you'll stick around.
Edited by black king, Aug 29 2016, 07:49:13 PM.

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The Departed
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black-king

i like mpo's story and characters eons better than in pw, but the actual gameplay in that, for me at least, was absolute piss.

mpo with pw's controllers is a literal perfect mgs game....just remove null and burn the man who decided to include that character in a fire.

as for the topic? basically that. there weren't that many interesting characters, and while i do agree the boss fights are creative, you have to battle them repeatedly and you don't have many options on how to fight when it comes to mech bosses that aren't sahelanthropus. bare in mind, i don't hate pw. in fact, i like it eons more than mgs2 and 4, since syphon filter: dark mirror and logan's shadow perfected the psp controls for shooting and stealth which pw would eventually emulate. it just doesn't stick with me, and there's just too many stupid decisions made in that game. like making it co-op but ad-hoc only, and having every boss be a machine.
Edited by The Departed, Aug 29 2016, 08:09:19 PM.
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Mola Ram
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Aug 29 2016, 07:48:35 PM
I liked Portable Ops better. It had better and more interesting characters, no Boss whining, etc.

PW had some fun parts but it just had some parts that were really tedious.

edit: Welcome btw :) Hope you'll stick around.
Thanks! Glad I finally made an account. I became a huge fan of the mgs series since 2010 :)

Although I have to be honest, I really didn't like Portable ops. I thought the controls were terrible, the soldier recruitment system sucked, and the interface was really frustrating. Having silenced codec calls also hurt because I found it hard to get into the story, whereas PW had voiced codec calls and tons of audio tapes to enhance the story and characters. Also, even though the bosses's were humanoid in PO, I found them to be kind of bland and underwhelming. Even PW had the peace walker fight or Zeke fight.

The worst aspect of PO for me was the level design. It's so dull. It's basically a cube with a couple boxes scattered around, and almost every level looks the exact same. To add to that, I have to say the map layouts for me were kind of atrocious. They're proportioned like they are in the console titles, but at the same time they're so tiny, and I always have this boxed-in feeling. Navigating the camera controls to a satisfying degree in these closed quarters is such a bitch because I always feel like the camera is bouncing off and behind held back by some nearby barrier. Peace Walker did a much better job in this regard by having wide open areas and thus plenty of room to operate the camera and move around in. Like so much of Portable Ops's game design, it feels like they ripped the general structure of these areas out of a console game without considering how they would translate to handheld play.

Having said all that, I played PO after PW, so maybe that's why I didn't like PO. I felt the mechanics introduced in PO were done better in PW, while trimming away the fat. We can debate which game had the better story, but I think I prefer the PW story. I thought Big Boss mourning the boss was justified, and like I said I found it easier to get into the story than PO (because of the full voice acting and audio tapes).

Whew, I wrote a lot more than I intended.
Edited by Mola Ram, Aug 29 2016, 08:23:16 PM.
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sadistic_greyfox
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My personal beef with Peace Walker was the story and characters, none of the ones introduced, I thought, were a bit interesting beside obviously Kaz and Paz. I will admit that it's a technical marvel for the psp but the reused bosses just being "military assault vehicles" got boring quick. I did appreciate the wackier "date" missions and the "camera Obscura" stuff but Hot Coldman was one of the worst antagonist the series has ever seen, including spin offs. My biggest gripe is that's what the game feels like, busy work. I haven't replayed it since release so i dont know if i replay it now IF my opinion would be more positive. I did everything necessary to get a; the story elements but it's the metal gear game i have the urge to replay the least. Hell i have MPO on my vita and i tend to touch that a few more times than pw.
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The Departed
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mola-ram

i actually feel a lot of the same. i hated mpo's levels, its' controls, and having to drag everyone about. it's mainly the story i quite liked, because it's the first time a metal gear protagonist has legitimate actual interaction of any kind of substance with the villains, and even though i hated null, i liked snake's scenes with him in the second round.

the only boss fights of mpo that i liked more than any pw ones were python and gene. the rest were just phenomenally bad fights, and despite my hatred of grinding to get the parts for zeke, my consolation prize was, at least the first time around, i loved the pw boss battles. i just wish they weren't mechs, because with humans, you have options. machines, it's heavy weapons or rockets, my least favorite weapons in games.
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sadistic_greyfox
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Aug 29 2016, 08:28:12 PM
...and even though I hated Null!
treason afoot? I must report.
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Mola Ram
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Aug 29 2016, 08:06:58 PM
black-king

i like mpo's story and characters eons better than in pw, but the actual gameplay in that, for me at least, was absolute piss.

mpo with pw's controllers is a literal perfect mgs game....just remove null and burn the man who decided to include that character in a fire.

as for the topic? basically that. there weren't that many interesting characters, and while i do agree the boss fights are creative, you have to battle them repeatedly and you don't have many options on how to fight when it comes to mech bosses that aren't sahelanthropus. bare in mind, i don't hate pw. in fact, i like it eons more than mgs2 and 4, since syphon filter: dark mirror and logan's shadow perfected the psp controls for shooting and stealth which pw would eventually emulate. it just doesn't stick with me, and there's just too many stupid decisions made in that game. like making it co-op but ad-hoc only, and having every boss be a machine.
I wasn't too hot on PO, but the story had some neat moments. There was dumb shit too, like Grey Fox or bringing Sokolov back (lol).

Also, I'm probably one of the few peope who prefers PW to MGSV. V really disappointed me :(

PW had charm and personality, MGSV had none. The characters in V are so bland, like all the personality was sucked out of them. I'm still so pissed with what MGSV did with Ocelot (my favorite mgs character).
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Ef9 o shea
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Wow i must be alone in the fact that i loved peacewalker then.The voice acting was bad but tge comic esque cutscenes were badass.The stoey wasn't great but i like it for what i got.The gameplay was fun and the coop was epic.

My only beef was hayters voice work
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The Departed
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mola-ram

and that, is where i have to strongly disagree with you.

pw has charm, definitely, it's a lighter hearted game and mgs works better when it isn't taking itself seriously. but kaz's rage was palpable. code talker was incredibly sympathetic and shed tragic light on what the native americans suffered at the hands of the new americans. quiet was fascinating. i really liked kiefersnake, how his actions were what dictated his character, and how he's a genuinely serious protagonist who cares about his men. and skull face was, without a doubt, the single most compelling and personality heavy villain to grace mgs yet. hell, even huey was fascinating, in that it's impossible to tell if he is what we think he is.

the thing about ocelot is that, he's a cliche. has been since mgs1, and each subsequent role he plays serves as just one cliche after another. it wasn't so much that he was theatric, as he was, just another one note, "mwuahahahahahaimsoevil" bad guy. i'll say it, i think ocelot is a shitty, extremely overrated villain. it wasn't until mgs3 that i actually came to like his character because he was something distinct for once. and v, for me, felt like a continuation of that, as opposed to the torture fetishist who double crosses everyone like ocd. and even though he's a level headed dude in v, he still stabs us in the back when we least expect it. and that's ocelot right there in a nutshell, dawg.

in fact, v is what i wish pw had been. i wish that kind of personality and complexity in all its' key characters existed with pw, and that we didn't get throwaway characters like cecile, amanda, chico, coldman, zadornov. hell, i didn't even like paz until the reveal.

strangelove, kaz and snake were the ones i really liked in pw, because they had genuine personality, and stood out from the chaff. but we spend a lot of time with all those other characters, and that's where things start to take a hamper.

it wasn't until v came along that i was compelled by huey, because pw did a horrible job distinguishing him from his son. it took making him an utterly deplorable human being to do that. of course, that kind of serves as a counter mirror, since both snake and otacon's dads turned out to be deplorable shitheads in their youth.
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Mola Ram
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Aug 29 2016, 08:27:57 PM
My personal beef with Peace Walker was the story and characters, none of the ones introduced, I thought, were a bit interesting beside obviously Kaz and Paz. I will admit that it's a technical marvel for the psp but the reused bosses just being "military assault vehicles" got boring quick. I did appreciate the wackier "date" missions and the "camera Obscura" stuff but Hot Coldman was one of the worst antagonist the series has ever seen, including spin offs. My biggest gripe is that's what the game feels like, busy work. I haven't replayed it since release so i dont know if i replay it now IF my opinion would be more positive. I did everything necessary to get a; the story elements but it's the metal gear game i have the urge to replay the least. Hell i have MPO on my vita and i tend to touch that a few more times than pw.
Hmmmm.... Maybe try replaying the game? I personally think PW is waaay better than PO, pretty much for the reasons I listened above. I loved building up my base in PW, the wacky humor, the easter eggs, and the overall gameplay. Co-op with my little bro was the best thing ever. Heck, I have fond memories of listening to the cassete tapes on the bus ride home. They really help flesh out the characters and some of the tapes are just hilarious.

And there is no way Hot Coldman (who I like) is a worse villian than Skull Face. Urggh, don't even get me started with Skull Face in TPP.

I'm actually kind of surpised at some of the PO love here, is it a popular opinion that it's better than PW? I always thought PW fleshed out and streamlined the mechanics introduced in PO, while trimming away the fat.
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Infiltrator
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I liked Peace Walker (not loved). It was a fun, but nothing amazing for me. I played the ported PS3 version only. It was pretty basic but I reminded myself it was originally a PSP game, and it's pretty amazing for being one. My main gripes are the repetitive tank and chopper battles. I just got bored of them after a while. I did like the AI metal gear battles though. Some of the characters were eh, but I loved the cassette tapes with background knowledge and just some funny things that go on in motherbase. Music was great as well.
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You stop right fucking there and apologies Infiltrator . CIA is many things; a has been meme master, a baneposter who ran it to the ground so bad to where it stopped being funny, a complete and utter podcast tsundere but I will NOT allow you to call him a shitty Gary Stu who killed a 7 part book series. That's just mean and unfair.

Sorry if I sound angry but this was too much, even with the strike in mind.


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Mola Ram
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Aug 29 2016, 08:38:52 PM
Wow i must be alone in the fact that i loved peacewalker then.The voice acting was bad but tge comic esque cutscenes were badass.The stoey wasn't great but i like it for what i got.The gameplay was fun and the coop was epic.

My only beef was hayters voice work
Dude I love PW too! Lol why do you think I made this thread? And I actually like Hayter in PW, it's a bit hammy at times, but I think it fits the tone of the game. And his scenes with the AI pod are fantastic. Really well delivered.

It's just interesting to see the differing opinions on PW. The psp community seems to love PW, and I see it consistently ranked as one of the best psp games. Yet mgs fans on this forum and especially Neogaf loath this game. Kind of bums me out. You can tell Kojima put a lot of love into this game, and it amazes me how the biggest mgs game in terms of content (before MGSV) was on a handheld. Even without the grinding, the game is massive in content.

I also thought PW as a game came together a lot better than TPP, but that's a discussion for another time :)
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Infiltrator
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If PW was your first mgs game, I can sort of understand why you would really like it.

Out of curiosity, how many of the other games have you played?
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You stop right fucking there and apologies Infiltrator . CIA is many things; a has been meme master, a baneposter who ran it to the ground so bad to where it stopped being funny, a complete and utter podcast tsundere but I will NOT allow you to call him a shitty Gary Stu who killed a 7 part book series. That's just mean and unfair.

Sorry if I sound angry but this was too much, even with the strike in mind.


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Doakes
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I don't think MOST MGS fans hate Peace Walker. Merely, the most vocal fans here on this forum might feel that way. Personally speaking, Peace Walker is one of my favorite MGS entries. Right up there with MGSV and Snake Eater HD Edition. It had the tightest, cleanest story, for the most part, with visually impressive motion comic cutscenes that had just the right amount of everything without being overly intrusive. It also had tighter, less convoluted controls from its' previous portable predecessor, an AMAZING soundtrack, simplistic but enjoyable stealth, and creative boss battles, if very much a grind later on. People usually comment on the poor characterization, and I concur whole heartedly. I find most of the PW characters to be anywhere from generic to downright annoying. Paz, I didn't like at all. Not in her act, not in her reveal. It took the Paz Diaries to make me like the actual character, because I found it compelling to gradually hear her become more disillusioned about her enemies and her cause, and become so lamenting of how her own little Peace Day never came, because she had been exposed by Chico. The tapes told a very fascinating story for me, and I loved that. I also loved the levity, because the idea of a hardened legend like Big Boss saying some of the silly things we hear in this game is what makes his character almost adorably endearing, for a war monger.

It's far from perfect, but it's a deeply enjoyable game, that emphasizes game, because there's an impressive amount of content for a portable entry. The immense amount of Extra Ops, some of which are actually quite fun. Outer Ops was surprisingly addictive. And I'm sure I'd have quite liked experiencing the game in Co-Op mode, but that wasn't made possible, sadly. I had more reasons to revisit this game long after the credits rolled than I did some other entries. Portable Ops, I'm torn about, but I remember having the actual multiplayer serve as an excuse to keep replaying the game for a good long while.

That said, I'm admittedly curious why you prefer Coldman to Skull Face. Many joke, but I'd be inclined to agree that Skull Face a truly complex villain, whereas Coldman is something of a lesser tier Bond villain. What I like about Coldman is his actual plan, and the motivation behind it. However, that's where it begins and ends for me with him. There never seemed to be much actual character for him. Skull Face, on the other hand, was a man loaded with character and personality. It wasn't just his past and upbringing, but his actual personality, his means to achieve things, his boldness, and his plan.
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sadistic_greyfox
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I think because Portable ops was a much more focused story. in my mind i can recall events of PO way clearer than I can of PW. I also had alot of fun with building, etc but personally I rank my metal gear favs on how engaged i was with the story. I'm sure at the time on release I was glowing about it, I do still think the final real animated cutscenes looked very nice. but honestly as I sit here i couldn't tell you what Coldman's MO was. Yeah the end with the nuke thing but what did he really want? I'm pretty certain Gene's motives were a bit more noble and more relate-able to a Liquid or solidus.

PO is a turd to play on the psp but thankfully on the vita you can customize all the controls, before i fiddled around with it, yeah PO controls like a tub in a lake.
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Mola Ram
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Aug 29 2016, 08:56:01 PM
If PW was your first mgs game, I can sort of understand why you would really like it.

Out of curiosity, how many of the other games have you played?
Pretty much all of them. PW was my first mgs game, I bought it randomly on my psp because it got good reviews. Then after I got PO (which I really didn't like). I then went back to play MGS 1-4, loved all of them. I also played Revengeance and was greatly anticipating MGSV.

Speaking of V, I'm probably one of the few people who loved Peace walker, but left MGSV feeling disappointed and cold. Which is ironic considering TPP is like PW 2.0 on consoles.
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Mola Ram
Aug 29 2016, 08:46:56 PM
And there is no way Hot Coldman (who I like) is a worse villian than Skull Face. Urggh, don't even get me started with Skull Face in TPP.
lol if you've been lurking, you oughta know by now that the skullster is my boy. and i think he's unfairly regarded for a few different reasons. but he's a dude i think is a vastly better villain than liquid, solidus and the boss, so of course he's gonna hold a higher regard than coldman, and here's why:

he's different.

he's perhaps the one mgs villain who distinct in more ways than one. sure, he's showy and theatric like any of the other mgs villains, but where he differs is the fact that it's all just one side to a character whose mind we explore in ways we've never explored any mgs villain prior, and that's courtesy of the tapes in gz and tpp. we learn what drives him, what created him, and just what manner of psychological manipulation he's willing to use on his targets to achieve his goals. we didn't see him shooting a bunch of rays in the face in a cutscene, but we saw him wipe big boss off the map, and indirectly poison our new motherbase with the kikongo strain. he's the living embodiment of what revenge turns people into, but at the same time, there's some actual tragedy behind that, considering what was done to him, and what made him what he became. and unlike coldman, what he wanted, sick as it was, had an actual logic behind it. he didn't want what happened to him and even code talker, to happen to anyone else ever again. he associated language and culture with identity, and suppressing that is essentially suppressing identity itself, and unlike all the nuke stories, that's a reality people suffer to this day.

coldman's theory that "humans can't destroy one another" is interesting, but what's the motivation behind it? it's the cold war, and he needs to prove humans don't have the will to push the button? why though? what drove him to that motivation? what makes it personal for coldman the way skull face's motivation was indeed very much personal for him. even previous mgs villains; bar volgin, have that personal stake in things, even if i like some more than others.

also, dawg, if you've really been browsing this forum, you'd know you ain't the only one who feels that way about v. i just strongly disagree with the sentiment, because i loved that v was the first mgs game to let the game be a game. i loved that its' story wasn't just reserved for cutscenes and tapes, but actually integrated into the gameplay for once. (yeah, technically, mgs2 kinda did with the simulation, but fuck mgs2 anyway)

pw does a good job of having gameplay and cutscene balance, but its' mission structure is far too often similar to that of previous mgs games. get to a certain goal, hold for cutscenes. to the point where the actual objectives are all an illusion to cover the real objective: "reach the goal."

and again, i don't hate pw, i like it as a game for the most part, and don't hate its' story. i just didn't like most of the characters, didn't like the stiff shooting mechanics, and really wished there were human or humanoid bosses.
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