Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Why join MGSF?
  • MGSF is officially the internet's largest MGS discussion board. So, you can enjoy your time with an active community of dedicated MGS fans.
  • Want more than just MGS talk? MGSF has a huge off-topic section for Opinions, Sport, Music, Movies, and other video games!
  • Organizations! Create your own or join an existing one. Organizations are sub-communities of the forum designed so you can gather with your closest friends on the board.
  • Blog! As a member, you have the ability to create your own blog on the forum for other users and/or guests to read.
  • Our forum also has an Arts sections for you to express your creative side, as well as a Digital Art forum in the computer corner.
  • We also have a Kojima Productions forum for members who wish to discuss KP-related issues outside of MGS.
Join our community today!

If you are already a member, please log in to your account to access all of your features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Opinion on gun violence; in wake of the Parkland school shooting
Topic Started: Feb 16 2018, 02:43:16 PM (3,627 Views)
Gray Panther
Member Avatar
Grayer than Yaeger
This is just an opinion. I don't mean to start a verbal fist fight over guns in America, I know full well that it's a sensitive topic (to say the least). But speaking as a European, the Parkland school rampage (tragic doesn't even begin to describe it) got me thinking...

The law which added mentally ill people to the gun register that Obama introduced and Trump revoked. Would that have prevented the school shooting? Why did the FBI say they couldn't determine who the poster of the Youtube comment was? Somehow I don't believe that. The fact that the authorities don't give a damn about the families of the victims isn't news; if they did, they would've at the very least reinstated the law they revoked.

But moreover, up until now I thought banning guns in the US isn't as simple. It's not Europe, where we've lived comfortably without guns for decades and have never felt the need to arm ourselves, even during the extremist mess of the previous few years. Come to think of it, it seems to have quieted down here now. Perhaps not paying attention to the Islamic extremists' threats did work; attention is what they got off on.

But I digress. The reason why I think guns should be kept away from civilians, and I mean ALL civilians, is simple. 21st century society cannot be trusted with firearms. I blame in some part the internet and social media for it. The internet has given the human scum of the Earth a voice it didn't have before, and I'm pretty sure it didn't need. And it shows in comments sections, on Twitter, Facebook, Youtube etc. People have become too bigoted and sensitive to the most trivial of issues, which all but culminate in violence. People act on their emotions too much, and that's easily exploitable. And if they don't show it immediately, they will sooner or later.

If the Vegas shooting has taught us anything, it's that no matter how psychologically stable and/or skilled and licensed to carry firearms a person is, gun access is way too lax. The perp never displayed any signs of disturbed emotions or strong opinions before he smuggled an arsenal full of military grade firearms into his hotel suite and opened fire on a music festival full of people. And yet nobody knows why he did it (losing gambling streak, minor signs of bipolar disorder and germophobia doesn't explain his actions).
And now a deranged kid, who'd actually been known to act disturbingly, got hold of a firearm and slaughtered a bunch of kids in Florida. At least the latter case could've been prevented.

My point is, there needs to be a change in social mentality, especially when it comes to violence and personal safety. Rampages existed before, sure, but only starting in the 2000s did they suddenly skyrocket. I strongly believe that the internet and social media played a part in people becoming much more irritable lately and too quick to act on their emotions. And I do not, and never will, believe that arming ourselves to the teeth is the solution. I believe that every generation, old and new, needs to be taught that firearms are synonymous with death, and encouraged to settle arguments and personal issues using their smarts. But keep guns away from civilians, psychologically smart or not. They just can't be trusted with them. Everybody will be safer and smarter in the long run. I get that it's easier said than done, but it's still better than doing nothing.

As well as that, more support and research should be invested in mental health. Disturbed people roaming freely are a ticking time bomb. Vegas and Parkland have shown us that. I'm not saying that they should be locked away at the slightest sign, but rather monitored more closely, to try and be able to predict when they might snap and prevent innocents from getting harmed.

Thoughts? I'm open to criticism.
Edited by Gray Panther, Feb 16 2018, 02:49:59 PM.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jassassino
Member Avatar
Avocados at law.

I certainly think gun enthusiasm and an opportunity has simultaneously helped and hindered the use of guns for violence and motivated means.

But, taking paedophilia as an example, cases of possession of child porn and grooming has of course skyrocketed, but there have also been a lot of anonymous internet help groups which have been raised and founded which prevent people from doing these dreadful crimes and allow them to maintain a life where they exercise restraint. So I think the internet isn't the problem, it's the lack of usage of the internet from self help and awareness groups which could easily prevent this from happening.

Sorry if it's hard to read that post. On my phone and walking so I was typing pretty shit.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Rest in Peace, OS.

Welcome to the Gallery
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Edgelord
Member Avatar
A nutjob without borders

Dont think psychological tests on those wanting gun licenses will work either. You can't tell if someone is suffering from Psycopathy. Some may know such as friends family and strangers but when a Psychopath is being interviewed or whatnot they out on a socially acceptable persona and act.
So they'll lie and tell the physiologist what they wanna hear or they'll wrote down the "correct" answers on the evaluation document and get their licence.

Still boggles my mind how any citizen can get their hands on pistols, shotguns, assault rifles and such.
Their should be one pistol and a maximum of 15 rounds oer household.

Those who hunt their food in rural areas should need a hunting licence and still be reduced to owning a bolt action rifle with a maximum of ten or twenty rounds (one deer will feed ye for a month) and uf wildlife is giving you problems then that duty should go directly and only TO wildlife rangers.

Should be a monthly or annual tax fee for gun owners also
Edited by Edgelord, Feb 16 2018, 04:16:06 PM.
BEFORE THY BECOMES SALTY WITH THE TEARS OF BEING OFFENDED.
BEHOLD THE FIELD IN WHICH I GROW MY FUCKS TO GIVE.
LAY THINE EYES UPON IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BARREN
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gray Panther
Member Avatar
Grayer than Yaeger
Edgelord
Feb 16 2018, 04:12:46 PM
Dont think psychological tests on those wanting gun licenses will work either. You can't tell if someone is suffering from Psycopathy. Some may know such as friends family and strangers but when a Psychopath is being interviewed or whatnot they out on a socially acceptable persona and act.
So they'll lie and tell the physiologist what they wanna hear or they'll wrote down the "correct" answers on the evaluation document and get their licence.
Case in point: Stephen Paddock, the Vegas shooter. Not saying he lied or anything, but he passed gun ownership criteria with flying colours when he got his license, never showed any signs that he might be mentally unhinged. And yet...58 dead, the highest death toll ever, from some military grade machine gun.
Edited by Gray Panther, Feb 16 2018, 04:35:44 PM.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Baneposter
Member Avatar
Only me

Mental health is just a justification people throw around when they don't want to confront the fact that guns are dangerous. Mental health is an abstract root issue that won't be tackled/sufficiently addressed for a very long time.
Posted Image
Spoiler: click to toggle
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Tibbs
Member Avatar


The biggest issue right now in the U.S is that people think the second amendment demands that they have access to military grade hardware. I personally am something of a gun nut. I love firearms, I love their history, I enjoy using them, how they work, etc. But the reasons for gun ownership boil down to three (or four if you include sport shooting but that's essentially the same as hunting as far as the arguments go) basic arguments from people here.

#1: Hunting / (target / skeet shooting)

#2: Personal/Home Defense

#3: Protection against government oppression/occupation/martial law/whatever

In regards to point #1, for hunting there is never, and I mean NEVER, a situation in hunting where you ever need anything more than a bolt-action rifle with more than 5 rounds shorter than ~38-40". So you don't need a 30-round collapsible AR-15 for that.

#2 I'll split into #2a for home defense and #2b for personal defense outside the home such as concealed carry permits etc.

#2a, the number of armed break-ins in the U.S. with the intent to kill is so low as to not have any relevant statistics attached to it. You're far more likely to be harmed by confronting the intruder directly so 99% of the time your best option is shouting "I am armed and I've called the police". In the rare event that somebody is intending to kill you or your family as a primary intention, if you can't stop them with a shotgun then you sure as hell won't be able to stop them with an AR-15 or a handgun. I have more to say about using firearms under stressful situations but I'll touch on it in my next point.

#2b, This is going to sound like an exaggeration because it's a large percentage but this number has been backed up by several sources, most of them well respected weapons trainers like Jim Cooper and Chuck Taylor. 99+% of firearm owners in the U.S. lack the training, skills, and education necessary to effectively operate a firearm in a combative / high-stress situation. Greater than 99%. That isn't an exaggerated figure. The course that certifies someone for a concealed carry permit does no testing under stress by the way. It's class time and a marksmanship test on a paper target. That's it. So permit holders are in no way exempt from that 99% figure. Therefore it's reasonable to assume that the vast majority of intervention in a shooting situation would result in, at BEST, no help, and most likely, additional innocent people killed. What does that mean? It means civilians have no reason whatsoever to own a handgun. Get rid of them.

#3, Given the above that the vast majority of people in the country can't do much more than shoot a piece of paper effectively with their firearms, the notion of fighting of a modern military force is so far beyond ridiculous that it is legitimately delusional. There is a legitimate deterrent in some respect in that any amount of guns owned will make the possibility of violent martial law very unlikely as you'll be sending American soldiers or police to kill Americans. You'll have a hard time getting anyone to follow those orders in the first place so beyond being a non-issue, hunting rifles in every 4th home are MORE than sufficient to act as a deterrent to any theoretical nonsense such as this.

I can safely say that no person in this country has any legitimate need to own any pistol whatsoever, a semi-automatic firearm (for the most part), any rifle or shotgun shorter than 40", or any gun with a detachable magazine that holds 10+ bullets.

Do the vast majority of these weapons do nothing more than sit in safes or be used as toys? Of course. But that's a pretty shitty justification for allowing mass murder after mass murder all while acting like you can't do anything because "guns don't kill people". No, guns don't kill people. But they make it a hell of a lot easier for a psycho to do it.

What I've listed above is not controversial. The facts and statistics attached are either indisputable or self-evident. The fact of the matter is is that a lot of Americans and the NRA would rather have access to toys and things that make them feel safe than take measures to actually enact a sensible and practical use-focused level of gun control that would save hundreds of lives a year. So what will inevitably happen is that in a few years it will finally go too far and then nobody will be able to drive to their hunting camp without calling the Sheriff for permission first.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
doubleo sigint
Member Avatar
I just wanna see you shine 'cause I know you are a Stargirl

I'm sorry but it baffles me how intelligent conservatives who usually make sense suddenly sound dumb as fuck when it comes to gun control.

One of my favourite lines is; "guns don't kill people, people do".

WHAT!?
Waiting for Shenmue III like...
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
WhiteThinDuke
Member Avatar


doubleo sigint
Feb 16 2018, 08:50:01 PM
One of my favourite lines is; "guns don't kill people, people do".

WHAT!?


just thought i'd weigh in on this debate
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
doubleo sigint
Member Avatar
I just wanna see you shine 'cause I know you are a Stargirl

WhiteThinDuke
Feb 16 2018, 08:53:25 PM
doubleo sigint
Feb 16 2018, 08:50:01 PM
One of my favourite lines is; "guns don't kill people, people do".

WHAT!?


just thought i'd weigh in on this debate
Lol that is a classic.
Waiting for Shenmue III like...
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Tibbs
Member Avatar


If they don't kill people then why has every military on the planet used them for over 100 years? People have insane mental gymnastics that all boils down to being butthurt over being told they can't have something they want.

Does it suck to lose access to something just because others will use it for evil? Sure I guess but welcome to being a member of society. Don't see anyone complaining about not being able to drive without a license
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
doubleo sigint
Member Avatar
I just wanna see you shine 'cause I know you are a Stargirl

NUKES DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE DO![/big]
Edited by doubleo sigint, Feb 16 2018, 09:02:35 PM.
Waiting for Shenmue III like...
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Webbie
Member Avatar
THUG ROSE!
doubleo sigint
Feb 16 2018, 09:00:31 PM
NUKES DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE DO![/big]
Yeah, my Facebook is currently loaded with comments like this from people in my area. Everyone around here is that type of people. They also support Trump. And you motherfuckers have always wondered why I'm so fucked it. It's the environment I was raised in!


But yeah, the amount of people saying that this school shooting shouldn't spark a gun control debate is driving me nuts. It's like, yeah, the shooter had issues and he's the one responsible for this, but if you think the gun laws in this country are perfectly fine as is I think you're absolutely fucked in the head.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Departed
Member Avatar
Your friendly neighborhood truck

Most people who own AR-15's don't use them for self defense against home invaders or a tyrants. They use them to go play on the shooting range. They're semi-automatic toys to most responsible gun owners. And they aren't willing to sacrifice said toys in light of how their still all too easy access enables shit like this.

Yeah, gun violence is not a clear cut issue. There's tons of factors, a few off the top of my head?

1. Access. Even if you have a record, you can always buy from someone who doesn't, black market included.
2. Records and mental health. You can check out and still just snap or be a complete sociopath garbagefire.
3. Gunshow loopholes. The very thing Bernie Sanders was trying to put an end to, is a big means of heavy hardware access.
4. Right owner, wrong hands. Like in LA. That kid who made the fucking videos giggling like a sick mutt. Those were his dad's guns, and I'm sure his dad was a perfectly responsible gun owner.

There's a lot factors, but at the end of the day, one thing is abundantly clear; there is zero reason an AR-15 should be accessible to the public. You wanna take an AR-15 for a spin on the range? Why not have them be rentals you pay for on the range itself? You wanna use it for self defense? Great, I'm sure there are no issues with shooting up your own house with a semi-automatic weapon. You wanna be the hero who stops a terrorist attack? The dude who shot up the church in Texas and killed over twenty people was chased down by a man with an AR-15. The odds of the AR-15 owner being the hero of any crisis is so astronomically thin that Tara Reid thinks it has health problems.

And while the responsible AR-15 owner is sitting at home waiting for their moment to shine, a less responsible AR-15 owner is taking his semi-automatic toy and killing innocent people with it.

The hypothetical 'what ifs' aren't justification if the reality is so fucked.

True story, kids.

Seven years ago, old yeller and my kid sis were on lockdown because Shareef Allmen, a disgruntled Cement Plant worker shot up his plant, killed a number of his co-workers, and led the police on a 24 hour manhunt, which resulted in a few more people getting shot and killed in Allmen's attempts to evade the police. Old yeller had to stay with my mom and sister that night just in case, because police reported spotting Allmen in the area where my mom lived at the time.

Lo and behold, the next day, Allmen dies on my mom's block. And I'm still super grateful no one was home when it happened.

Shit gets scary when some cunt's running around with a semi-auto, a shotgun and a pistol, shooting people and stealing their cars like fucking Grand Theft Asshole. It gets doubly scary when cops are telling you to stay in your homes or not letting you leave either your campus or your place of work since the plant was a mile from the two at the time.

All of Allmen's guns? Purchased legally. A week prior, he was showing off his weapons to some friends in Arizona. He had a record, but was apparently a "community man" from San Jose of all fucking place. Which was why some people were holding a service in his name downtown, tone deaf to the fact that the guy they were morning killed 13 people and wounded several others.

Gun control isn't as black and white as "we take your guns away." Mental health is a problem, so too is how easy it is for most people to get a gun. And that needs to change.

No matter what, there's reason any of us should own an AR-15 or any semi-auto weapon of any kind. A six shooter gets results for self defense. Hunters can get fucked but you have those hunting rifles for when you want to shoot some harmless deer for the lols. If a person's only taking it out on the shooting range, why does it ever have to leave the shooting range? And if someone's just waiting to be the AR-15 hero who saves the day against the next shooter or terrorist invasion, that person probably has a better chance of winning the Mega-Lotto than they do being in the wrong place at the right time.
Posted Image
Dirty Duck
 
Duck as sake no bidibgeybfbfhailhydradrinkn:(

awards and such

r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know :gary:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Tibbs
Member Avatar


The Departed
Feb 16 2018, 09:20:40 PM
No matter what, there's reason any of us should own an AR-15 or any semi-auto weapon of any kind. A six shooter gets results for self defense. Hunters can get fucked but you have those hunting rifles for when you want to shoot some harmless deer for the lols. If a person's only taking it out on the shooting range, why does it ever have to leave the shooting range? And if someone's just waiting to be the AR-15 hero who saves the day against the next shooter or terrorist invasion, that person probably has a better chance of winning the Mega-Lotto than they do being in the wrong place at the right time.
I'd argue that nobody should own a six shooter either. I think any kind of concealable weapon will just keep this problem going. A pump shotgun works just fine. Even a child could handle a 20 gauge and you don't have to hide it if you're using it for legitimate purposes.

Also do you not eat meat? There's lots more legitimate purposes to hunting than shooting "harmless animals" for fun. In fact I'd argue that shooting and quickly killing a wild animal is a hell of a lot more humane than the conditions of cattle and chicken farms but that's neither here nor there I spose. Just saying
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jassassino
Member Avatar
Avocados at law.

I would hypothetically think it better to hunt for meat rather than support a continuously inhumane and gross factory farming technique which is destroying our planet, so I agree with that. If anything, hunting regulations need to be more strictly imposed and people should become further educated about the correct and right ways to hunt (despite being vegan in my eating practices, when I sea/pier fish, I'll always release young fish back into the sea, but I'll eat older fish) and I think hunting guns are to some extent fine.

But concealed weapons are fucking terrifying aren't they? Isn't it scary to think of the possibility of walking down a street and knowing some dodgy fucking dudes are probably walking right past you with a glock right on their belt? Fuck that.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Rest in Peace, OS.

Welcome to the Gallery
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
doubleo sigint
Member Avatar
I just wanna see you shine 'cause I know you are a Stargirl

One of my rules for life is live and let live as long as you are not harming anyone, guns LITERALLY are created to harm people, I don't think shooting ranges should be banned but it should be licensed, vetted and they should be the only ones who have access to firearms, like in England.

There's no need to have a semi automatic toy as Departed put it or even a 6 shooter when you're a civilian.
Jassassino
Feb 16 2018, 09:41:15 PM
I would hypothetically think it better to hunt for meat rather than support a continuously inhumane and gross factory farming technique which is destroying our planet, so I agree with that. If anything, hunting regulations need to be more strictly imposed and people should become further educated about the correct and right ways to hunt (despite being vegan in my eating practices, when I sea/pier fish, I'll always release young fish back into the sea, but I'll eat older fish) and I think hunting guns are to some extent fine.

But concealed weapons are fucking terrifying aren't they? Isn't it scary to think of the possibility of walking down a street and knowing some dodgy fucking dudes are probably walking right past you with a glock right on their belt? Fuck that.
I remember when I went to Miami and saw Airport security with a fat 9mm in his holster AIRPORT SECURITY. I was like he has the power to drop me forever right now if he wanted, in a split second it's terrifying.
Edited by doubleo sigint, Feb 16 2018, 09:47:05 PM.
Waiting for Shenmue III like...
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gray Panther
Member Avatar
Grayer than Yaeger
The Departed
Feb 16 2018, 09:20:40 PM
No matter what, there's reason any of us should own an AR-15 or any semi-auto weapon of any kind. A six shooter gets results for self defense. Hunters can get fucked but you have those hunting rifles for when you want to shoot some harmless deer for the lols. If a person's only taking it out on the shooting range, why does it ever have to leave the shooting range? And if someone's just waiting to be the AR-15 hero who saves the day against the next shooter or terrorist invasion, that person probably has a better chance of winning the Mega-Lotto than they do being in the wrong place at the right time.
Hunting rifles maybe, as long as it stays a sport, maybe...Good point about shooting ranges.

But what makes you think the Cruz kid wouldn't have gotten hold of his dad's six-shooter at home, had he not had an AR-15?
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Departed
Member Avatar
Your friendly neighborhood truck

I'm anti-gun all the way, for the record. I think guns create problems more than anything else and I own a prop gun from TV, not a real gun because I could never shoot nobody.

I bring up the six shooter because if I have to find a middle ground, I'd rather guns have limited annoying capacity and have to be manually reloaded instead of a single clip. I only bring it up because ain't no one ever gonna say "yeah, no more guns."

Me? I think all guns are bad and hate them all, but my notion is for realistic baby steps, so no potential shit-ass has access to a semi-auto of any kind, be it assault rifles or handguns.

Fuck all guns though and fuck all the people that make them 'necessary' for some.
Mr.-Tibbs

These days, I'm contemplating going vegan tbh. My beef is the people who do it for the hint itself and not out of necessity. The only people who need to hunt for food are those not well off. I'd argue most hunters aren't getting their deer meat because they can't afford ground beef.

But I still hate what a lot of animals go through at farms, hence why I'm getting steadily more reluctant on meat eating.
But yeah, the whole hunting angle was brought up because I've actually seen people bring it up when discussing the benefits of an AR-15...dunno if they were taking the piss tho.
Posted Image
Dirty Duck
 
Duck as sake no bidibgeybfbfhailhydradrinkn:(

awards and such

r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know :gary:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gray Panther
Member Avatar
Grayer than Yaeger
The Departed: if only the NRA would listen, but by now itís like their baby which they refuse to let go of. And Iím sure some of the parasites in the White House are members of the NRA.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mr. Tibbs
Member Avatar


The Departed
Feb 16 2018, 10:58:06 PM
Mr.-Tibbs

These days, I'm contemplating going vegan tbh. My beef is the people who do it for the hint itself and not out of necessity. The only people who need to hunt for food are those not well off. I'd argue most hunters aren't getting their deer meat because they can't afford ground beef.

But I still hate what a lot of animals go through at farms, hence why I'm getting steadily more reluctant on meat eating.
But yeah, the whole hunting angle was brought up because I've actually seen people bring it up when discussing the benefits of an AR-15...dunno if they were taking the piss tho.
I mean, that's a lot of people. Meat is incredibly expensive. Especially any meat comparable to the quality or humane treatment of a grass-fed wild animal. A medium size deer puts more meat in my freezer than I can otherwise afford very easily even after the price of a hunting license and butchering.

Don't get me wrong, I know where you're coming from and I hate people who fetishize hunting and post pics and all kinds of weird stuff. I don't enjoy killing animals, but I also can't afford to go to Whole Foods every week to buy pasture raised antibiotic free meat and whatnot.

Also, anyone saying an AR-15 is for hunting is either ignorant or being deliberately misleading. The .223 / 5.56mm cartridge was designed for the express purposes of being the most effective man killer possible within NATO regulations. It's far too light to be an effective or humane cartridge on anything larger than a varmint. Sure you can buy an AR-15 painted in camo and take it hunting but it's a terrible choice compared to any actual hunting rifle in .270 or .308. And if you need 30 rounds and semi-automatic fire to take down a deer then you're probably so bad with your gun that it won't help you anyway
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Opinions/Confessions · Next Topic »
Add Reply

User Color Code
Admin Global Moderator Forum Moderator Member Validating Banned