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| Ocean's 8 and Hollywood's lack of creativity; Is gender-swapping really necessary? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 17 2018, 02:29:08 PM (273 Views) | |
| Gray Panther | Jun 17 2018, 02:29:08 PM Post #1 |
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Grayer than Yaeger
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/movies/oceans-8-gender-swap.html I read this the other day, after hearing about the lead actresses apparently blaming Ocean's 8's less than perfect critical performance on "white male critics". Whether or not this was based on the RT rating of 68% (which isn't too bad), the funny thing about that rating is that I found just as many female reviewer names who gave it a fresh rating as ones who gave it a rotten rating. So both sides of the spectrum had a more or less equal say. Not that I give RT much credibility... The audience rating however is 49%, so maybe the problem isn't with the critics but the movie itself. Sometimes a movie is just bad that even a star cast won't save it. Now I personally haven't seen Ocean's 8 yet, I might watch it once it becomes available for streaming. But the fact that many are saying that it's really a rehash of Steven Soderbergh's Ocean's Eleven but with women, it just makes me wonder "what am I going to see here that I haven't seen before?" Even the opening scene with Sandra Bullock is the same orange-clad prisoner interrogation scene which you see with Clooney. My point being, just how necessary was it to make Ocean's 8? All kinds of things have been said about the lack of diversity in Hollywood when it comes to women and minorities. And I'm actually FOR diversity. I want to see more movies like Zero Dark Thirty, Wonder Woman, Molly's Game, I Tonya. Movies directed by, or written by, or telling fascinating stories about, women. The problem in said lack of diversity is that the more interesting material is now going to low-key, independent studios and directors, with A-list actors in them. These are movies you won't see get a red carpet premiere. I actually have a list of such movies I want to see this year which I only found out about thanks to Youtube trailers! Maybe the lack of diversity in Hollywood comes from lack of creativity. Case in point the recent wave of remakes and reboots, and sort of sub-trend of this being gender-swapping. Did we as an audience really ask for a new Ghostbusters? or Ocean's 8? Or other remakes currently on the way, some of them rehashes but with women? The problem I see with that is Hollywood in desperation is running out of ideas whilst the more interesting stuff which SHOULD be on the table is going where studio execs wouldn't have the imagination to look for. And these gender-swapped rehashes of old classic movies, which I'd much rather they be left alone, are not only a lazy attempt to cash in on a completely unnecessary trend, but also a disservice to the women writers and directors who might actually have something more interesting to offer. There should be more of the likes of Kathryn Bigelow and Patty Jenkins at the forefront, instead of remakes with women filling men's shoes. TL;DR: lack of diversity, and in turn the bashing of "white males" coming from pseudo-feminists, is as a result of lack of creativity in Hollywood, whilst the really creative stuff is going towards indie hands which should get more recognition that it's currently getting. Thoughts? Edited by Gray Panther, Jun 17 2018, 02:32:50 PM.
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| Novitch | Jun 17 2018, 04:45:26 PM Post #2 |
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Knight
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Is not lack of creativity, its just that no one wants to watch their propaganda. |
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| Jassassino | Jun 17 2018, 04:49:48 PM Post #3 |
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Avocados at law.
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It's not Propaganda, it's where studio executives grossly misunderstand concepts being demanded by political and civil activists and try to capitalise on it. I guarantee the main reason any celebrity "feminist" appraisal will ever come out of this film is due to one thing: $$$$$$ Agreed. These rehashed ideas are detrimental to the overall goal. Edited by Jassassino, Jun 17 2018, 04:53:33 PM.
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![]() Piss off, ghost! ![]() Rest in Peace, OS. Welcome to the Gallery | |
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| The Departed | Jun 18 2018, 01:18:09 AM Post #4 |
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Your friendly neighborhood truck
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Spy is an example of a good female driven film for one reason; its original. No matter the intention, remaking anything and keeping all the beats the same, sans everyone's a girl is gonna appear cheap and lazy. Films need substance. Like any remake you ever make, the fundamental question asked is necessity. What are we getting from this film that we can't already get from the original? Or in this case, the decent Clooney remake of the shitty original with Dean Martin. |
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awards and such r.i.p. to the coolest dude we'll ever know
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| Jassassino | Jun 18 2018, 03:13:04 PM Post #5 |
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Avocados at law.
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Sicario is another great example of what we SHOULD be getting. We recently got a weird female version of The Hangover which nobody wants to see, if nobody wants to see the newest Hangover film, they aren't going to want to see The Hangover 4.5 with an all female cast. |
![]() Piss off, ghost! ![]() Rest in Peace, OS. Welcome to the Gallery | |
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| NateDog | Jun 18 2018, 03:19:44 PM Post #6 |
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We have arrived.
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I won't weigh in on this "debate" but all I can say is most views I've seen regarding the movie simply say it's not very entertaining and that the two protagonists don't actually seem to feature as much or have as much depth as the "secondary" cast. |
| Watch this space. | |
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| The Baneposter | Jun 18 2018, 05:11:15 PM Post #7 |
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Only me
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there is literally nothing wrong with this movie. It seems like good dumb fun just aimed at a female audience; and suddenly good dumb fun is not okay when it's aimed at a different demographic Case in point:
Calling out Hollywood for a lack of creativity in a year where we're got You Were Never Really Here is grossly off point. Creativity is not dead - it never did; just know where to look. You will not find an artistic masterpiece in an Oceans film and if that's what you were looking for it's your fault and no one else's. |
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| doubleo sigint | Jun 18 2018, 06:02:23 PM Post #8 |
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I just wanna see you shine 'cause I know you are a Stargirl
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Why does hollyweird keep revisiting franchises created in a period when POC/women were not heavily featured? If you want to feature people of colour and women more, then create original or existing content that predominantly features POC/women stop going back to old white/male dominated franchises because of nostalgia money then ruin said nostalgia by casting people that look and feel nothing like the characters of old for virtue signaling diversity points all the while lowering the standards of POC/women by making them black/genderbent versions of white/male literature. POC & women can’t have our own original literature today, that could arguably be better because we're too busy riding white male coat tails because that's the trend. Black Panther; THAT'S HOW YOU FUCKING DO IT! Not black version of The Little Mermaid or women's version of Ghostbusters. |
Waiting for Shenmue III like...![]() | |
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| Jassassino | Jun 18 2018, 06:20:20 PM Post #9 |
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Avocados at law.
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There IS a problem with this and the recent trend of gender-swapped franchises, which is that primarily female ensemble cast films piggy-back off previously male-dominated successes, which in turn continue to show female audiences that masculine imitation is the only way you'll ever be 'good'. Its utter bullshit that there isn't a desire to make entirely new IPs and franchises with female casts. These films don't even explore gender in their contexts and seem to ignore creating debate on the topic. Even relatively simple films intended on the same audiences that the Ghost Busters remake targeted like She's The Man and Whip It generate some sort of commentary on the topic. |
![]() Piss off, ghost! ![]() Rest in Peace, OS. Welcome to the Gallery | |
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| Gray Panther | Jun 18 2018, 06:49:06 PM Post #10 |
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Grayer than Yaeger
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'You Were Never Really Here' is on my list I mentioned of movies to watch this year. I didn't say that creativity has disappeared, I said that it's going outside of Hollywood. I don't mind digging for movies like 'You Were Never Really Here', I'd just like to see them get more recognition. There's nothing wrong with Ocean's 8 except that it's unimaginative, and the author of the NYTimes article I linked above is saying the exact same thing, and she's a woman in fact. By all means make more movies with diverse casts (women, black, minorities etc), just be a bit more creative with the material. Otherwise it just looks like, to quote a Bowie lyric, "same old thing in brand new drag". Edited by Gray Panther, Jun 18 2018, 06:55:19 PM.
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| Edgelord | Jun 19 2018, 10:11:51 PM Post #11 |
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A nutjob without borders
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Women should be stuck where they should be. Eye candy and for the leading male to fuck. Amarite guys Edited by Edgelord, Jun 19 2018, 10:12:10 PM.
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BEFORE THY BECOMES SALTY WITH THE TEARS OF BEING OFFENDED. BEHOLD THE FIELD IN WHICH I GROW MY FUCKS TO GIVE. LAY THINE EYES UPON IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BARREN | |
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| doubleo sigint | Jun 20 2018, 09:48:08 AM Post #12 |
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I just wanna see you shine 'cause I know you are a Stargirl
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Worked for Bond for over 50 years. |
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| The Baneposter | Jun 20 2018, 09:56:40 AM Post #13 |
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Only me
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Jass Why should they acknowledge gender though? why does every movie with some kind of minority/underrepresented group need to justify its existence? I know this isn't your intention or your point what so ever; but it's kind of like how people always want gay representation to have a ''reason'' in their media because you can't possibly have people just...be gay. Why cant it be, like I said - dumb fun? I certainly don't expect thought provoking commentary on toxic masculinity and male social hierarchy when I watch The Expendables; why should I expect something deep out of Ocean's 8? Edited by The Baneposter, Jun 20 2018, 09:57:03 AM.
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